Many accredited FPS games use this technique, why do you think Frame per second is so important in FPS competitions?
Very Important Things about the Alpha in this post
- Thread starter NMDGeist
- Start date
Noob mistake in MP game design.
Use two guys running distance for time. One looks at minimum detail (floor), other looks normal. See who arrives first. They have frame rate advantage.
It's certainly not important to increase DPS, since good games don't tie the damage output to the FPS.
Except if you read my post it should be clear that I'm not a militant M&K user - I'm a 'best control option for the game' user. In many games that is indeed a gamepad, in others it's a mouse + keyboard, in a select few it's a HOTAS, occasionally it's the Steam controller, in others it's a motion controller or a tablet.
But if you pay attention you will notice that the thing that all games that play well with controllers have in common, is that they are all third person games, be it a racer, third person shooter, spectacle fighter, etc - they almost all play better with a gamepad than a mouse and keyboard. Some third person games that in theory should play better with a controller fall short for one reason or another (e.g. if aiming is slow and inaccurate with a controller as it is in Metal Gear Solid V). But in most third person games you can turn on a dime and quickly aim at any enemy regardless of where they are, even behind you - if the game has just a slight touch of aim assist when aiming down sights you can be just as effective with a controller than you could have been with M+K, often even more so (however, aim assist kicking in at any other time is bad - I'm looking at you Call of Duty with your aim assist giving away the presence of enemies hidden behind cover... Also, COD is 1st person so shouldn't be played with a controller anyway).
On the other hand first persons game take about five hours to turn around with a controller - that's just a fact and you can't deny it, and this makes you dead every time you walk in front of an alleyway or whenever someone gets behind you, because the controller just won't accept your input fast enough to do anything about it. If you bump up the input sensitivity so you can turn on a dime than you sacrifice the ability to hit anything... at all. On a mouse and keyboard you can turn on a dime and take care of the situation fast and accurately.
Also, there's this (presumably the controller aiming in this game must handle more like MGSV than SRIV):
Last edited:
Aim hack you mean.
You say you're not militant but you sure sound like it - you keep saying "shouldn't" this or that but who are you to dictate what should or shouldn't be used for a given game/genre. It's highly subjective, and it's good we have a choice in how we play games.
While it's true that M&K is easier due to the higher accuracy involved doesn't mean pads are invalid - I find M&K quite uncomfortable, and they remind me of work tbh as I'm using them all day at my desk.
I mean, I'm playing FS2020 with an Xbox pad (supported by mouse for operating the dozens of buttons in the cockpit), you're basically saying that's not right and I should get a yoke and rudder pedals instead? It's a silly argument that only really applies to games that have been designed with a very narrow focus in terms of what the control method should be (such as hardcore driving sims that are literally unplayable with a pad, let alone M&K). Elite is far from unplayable with a pad, quite the opposite - I'm able to FA Off in an around stations no problem with mine, and while accuracy might suffer a little, that doesn't really matter because I'm a PvE player who doesn't have to compete with other players. Elite isn't really that sort of game.
So I disagree with you, gamepads are very much valid options for FPSs such as Odyssey. And let's not compare this with CoD, apples vs oranges - Odyssey is not a twitch shooter.
It's simple - you're intentionally nerfing yourself if you use an inadequate control system for the game in question, which detracts from the experience - sometimes by a lot (I'm really not exaggerating when I say MGSV is 10x slower with a controller - I know because I gave it more than a fair chance and was playing awfully and the moment I switched to M+K I could complete missions in minutes that were taking hours (due to retries) with a controller). I mean, if you like wading through mud go right ahead, but I'll take the Mustang.
I never said that. If you paid attention to my posts you would have seen that I quite clearly stated that either controller or HOTAS should be used while in a ship/SRV, and switching to mouse and keyboard for on foot missions. Pay more attention next time.
There's that word again, "should"/"shouldn't".
As for MGSV, I completed that without issues on the PS3 back in the day, I didn't feel like I gimped myself in any shape or form. If you struggle with pad controls in general and don't like them that's fine but don't assume everyone else is the same as you.
Tell you what would be a pain since I suffered through it - playing the original PS1 MGS on a PSP because it lacks the L2/R2 buttons. That is gimping oneself alright. Not this though - as I said, Elite/Odyssey is not a competitive shooter in an e-sports environment where certain hardware/controls are a "must" to be able to win. If you play it like that, well you're free to do as you please but it's irrelevant to other players who choose not to.
Lastly, the mere idea of having to switch controls in the same game - ugh - understand a sizeable part of the playerbase (on PC at least) will end up doing it i.e. those with a HOTAS for example, but I'm glad I don't have to suffer that inconvenience, thanks to already using a pad to begin with.
As for MGSV, I completed that without issues on the PS3 back in the day, I didn't feel like I gimped myself in any shape or form. If you struggle with pad controls in general and don't like them that's fine but don't assume everyone else is the same as you.
Tell you what would be a pain since I suffered through it - playing the original PS1 MGS on a PSP because it lacks the L2/R2 buttons. That is gimping oneself alright. Not this though - as I said, Elite/Odyssey is not a competitive shooter in an e-sports environment where certain hardware/controls are a "must" to be able to win. If you play it like that, well you're free to do as you please but it's irrelevant to other players who choose not to.
Lastly, the mere idea of having to switch controls in the same game - ugh - understand a sizeable part of the playerbase (on PC at least) will end up doing it i.e. those with a HOTAS for example, but I'm glad I don't have to suffer that inconvenience, thanks to already using a pad to begin with.
That post of his upset me so much that, well, here I am*... Just long enough to provide some feedback in the official feedback thread. I'm not going to get sucked into another debate (this is why I left the forum in the first place), so fight the good fight on my behalf, but I will at least add my 2c to the official FDev thread to make sure Frontier knows that this fellow does not speak for many us.
o7
*I had to dig up a password written on paper and stored away in a distant box just to log in, which shows how much this topic means to me.
Last edited:
You have much more reason to be here than I do Old Duck - I drop in and out of this game from time to time as my mood and mental health allow, but I recognise your name as one of the long time regular players.
PUBG had a similar discrepancy of Frame Rate being tied to RoF when I was heavily into it, they managed to alleviate the issue but there are loads of videos with tests and what happens regarding it.
All you have to do is play/see CoD Warzone/Black Ops in Cross Platform mode to see the inherent differences that higher Frames (PC) vs lower Frames (PS4/Pro +Xbone/S/X) can do.
There are other factors such as ping/ticket rate but getting killed behind walls, having bullets "ghost" through the target etc are all symptoms of differences in Frame Rate.
As someone else said, Linus did a great video regarding 240Hz using Shroud if I recall.
For those putting the whole "Frame Rate is tied to Rate of Fire?!" down to FDev's ability to code an FPS game, you should check it out. It's not so cut and dry, but mostly knowledge is power.
I'm unsure about the aim assist in Odyssey as I'm an M+K user (having a mostly FPS history this is my preferred method of input with exception to Cars/wheeled vehicles, they feel much better with a Controller), however I have used aim assist on Console versions of GTAV and BF/CoD.
GTAV uses a "snap to" method, where you can use the bumper buttons to swap target left and right and unleash fury (less realistic in regards to recoil etc). They also have the ability to use both 1st and 3rd person viewing which as it was primarily a 3rd person game, I favoured towards (despite being an FPS player), it just felt better for that game IMO.
PUBG did also, I'm hoping Oddysey has the ability to switch between 1st and 3rd person in the near future. This would be amazing when piloting Ships/Vehicles as well.
BF/CoD has an adjustable aim assist, mostly it works by you "feeling" it sort of slightly magnetise toward an enemy when they're within your reticle, and it's more of an assist where you still very much need to aim, lead/predict movement, control recoil etc.
Ultimately it depends if the goal is to make Oddysey a more competitive experience, I'd opt for the latter control method given ED's sim-type immersion.
If it's supposed to be a bit of fun (with en mass NPCs), then the GTAV type aim assist method would be better suited.
All you have to do is play/see CoD Warzone/Black Ops in Cross Platform mode to see the inherent differences that higher Frames (PC) vs lower Frames (PS4/Pro +Xbone/S/X) can do.
There are other factors such as ping/ticket rate but getting killed behind walls, having bullets "ghost" through the target etc are all symptoms of differences in Frame Rate.
As someone else said, Linus did a great video regarding 240Hz using Shroud if I recall.
For those putting the whole "Frame Rate is tied to Rate of Fire?!" down to FDev's ability to code an FPS game, you should check it out. It's not so cut and dry, but mostly knowledge is power.
I'm unsure about the aim assist in Odyssey as I'm an M+K user (having a mostly FPS history this is my preferred method of input with exception to Cars/wheeled vehicles, they feel much better with a Controller), however I have used aim assist on Console versions of GTAV and BF/CoD.
GTAV uses a "snap to" method, where you can use the bumper buttons to swap target left and right and unleash fury (less realistic in regards to recoil etc). They also have the ability to use both 1st and 3rd person viewing which as it was primarily a 3rd person game, I favoured towards (despite being an FPS player), it just felt better for that game IMO.
PUBG did also, I'm hoping Oddysey has the ability to switch between 1st and 3rd person in the near future. This would be amazing when piloting Ships/Vehicles as well.
BF/CoD has an adjustable aim assist, mostly it works by you "feeling" it sort of slightly magnetise toward an enemy when they're within your reticle, and it's more of an assist where you still very much need to aim, lead/predict movement, control recoil etc.
Ultimately it depends if the goal is to make Oddysey a more competitive experience, I'd opt for the latter control method given ED's sim-type immersion.
If it's supposed to be a bit of fun (with en mass NPCs), then the GTAV type aim assist method would be better suited.