Well, the much loved hardware sub-section is gone now, but I promised regular updates on the Gunfighter and this looks like the best place to do it.
Jul 16, 2018
VKB Gunfighter Pro Update 1
Well, Eduard was on the money with his estimated time for delivery- it turned up mid June, just as promised. He's stuck to his promises and that's very reassuring. Maybe I'll consider buying another product of theirs at some point. Their website is being updated and they're taking on board customer feedback, particularly with regards to pre orders. Hopefully this year's fiasco won't be repeated!
The extension consists of a very robust 's' shaped tube with all the gubbins required to attach it between the grip and base. A new, much smaller plate, suitable for simpit fixing, is included, as are a bag of very strong springs.
Fitting requires stripping the base and removing the gimbal. It's a straightforward proceedure, no more difficult than breaking down an airbrush or firearm for cleaning. It's a great opportunity to admire the superb workmanship, but rather worrying to realise you'll be grabbing hold of delicate looking circuit boards when you remove and reattach the springs.
I couldn't find any instructions specific to the Gunfighter, but there's a video of replacing springs and cams on a similar base on the official VKB youtube channel. The chap in that video uses flat nosed pliers to remove and reattach the springs, so I attempted to do the same.
Removing the stock springs wasn't particularly difficult, but fitting the newer, stronger ones was extremely difficult using conventional pliers. I had some cheap circlip pliers to hand, which allowed me to finish the job, but it really needs a better quality tool. I'll be adding one to my kit for future use. If you prefer lighter springs, or are happy with the stock springs and cams, it won't be an issue.
Reassembly was a breeze and the small base fits just as snug as the original.
The next problem was with my simpit. The Pagnian GT Ultimate's centre mount didn't depress low enough to mount the stick at the desired height, so it was out with the old Dremmel to cut about five inches out of the slider.
I'd love to tell you how I then bolted it into position on a carefully resized mounting plate, re-ran the wiring and tidied my rig up to look all ship shape and Bristol fashion. Sadly, with a bit of double sided tape holding it in place, I made the mistake of 'testing'... for about four hours straight! [haha]
I will get around to cosmetics and fixing it permanently in place at some point, but for now, I'm way too busy flying to be bothered with all that!
It's really comfortable, set at exatly the right height for me, where a conventional stick would be on a glider or warbird. The additional strength in the springs allows it to recentre as well as before, but the additional range of movement feels much better. Even my Type 9 seems more responsive! I read a lot about more precision with extension sets, which may be true, but for me the advantage is the impression that I'm applying maximum pitch or roll. It just feels more like flying.
I'm getting comfortable with my new key bindings, too. Heavily loaded landings, chugging around ring systems and light combat all feel more natural and intuitive. It really is a joy to use!
A long planned family visit has taken me stateside, so I'm taking a wee break from virtual flying, but on the plus side I've finally gotten around to writing the update.
Tl;dr- The extension really enhances an already superb controller.
If you're considering a VKB grip and have the space for the s-stick, I can heartily recommend both. The EU suppliers seem to be making ammends for their earlier mishaps and most importantly, they're listening to customer feeback. My purchasing experience was poor, but the guys have done what they can to mitigate the worst effects of their mistakes and are moving toward better systems and proceedures. I'm not quite ready to fanboi for them, but they've come a long way in a short period of time. I wish them well for the future.
So, on to our first year together.
The stick still looks and feels brand new, with no slack in the gimbal, no play in the buttons and hats.
There is an occasional issue with ghost button presses. I have chaff firing mapped to the stick and it will start shooting on full stick deflection. It's a minor irritation, calibrating the stick sorts it out, straight away. It happens at irregular intervals, so I'm not able to overcome it with regular calibration runs. It's very infrequent- less than once a month- but a cause for concern all the same.
I haven't been able to reach a trigger arrangement I like with Elite Dangerous. I have plenty of buttons and levers available, but nothing that feels natural with EDs rather odd maximum of two firing key bindings. I want to be able to fire either group individually or both together. With three triggers available it ought to be easy, but ED will only allow two trigger options at a time. That means having to hold down two triggers simultaneously to get both firing groups singing. Nothing I set up on the stick feels natural while doing that. This is a problem with ED though, not the stick!
What does feel very natural is using five way hats to control various functions. My target selection options are on the right side of the stick, manoeuvering thrusters are central and power management is under my thumb on the left. I can alter my ship's trim, flick through menu options, spin the ship and all without taking my hand off the stick. EDs interface gets more cluttered with every update, the stick has kept me on top of them so far.
Moving a little further afield, the stick is really intended for flight sims and it's there (hardly surprisingly) that it really shines.
For older sims the feel from the stick the way I've set mine up is very close to my (extremely limited!) real world flight experience. I have almost no resistance to small stick movements, but a definite, pronounced increase in tension toward the edge of the stick's throw.
Older sims are less complex, so there are buttons to spare, but DCS completely overwhelms even a HOTAS and keyboard. The solution I've come up with is to map essential commands onto the HOTAS and use a trackerball mouse to select push buttons and switches from inside the cockpit. It's less mentally taxing than having to learn an insane number of key presses and even helps with immersion. Of course, I can't find a left handed trackerball, so I have to fly left handed while reaching for knobs and dials, but again, that mimics real life, where older 'planes have very busy cockpits. Very immersive!
I think it's in study level models, where a single software aircraft can cost twice as much as a triple A game, that products like the Gunfighter make at least some sense. When you're laying down hundreds of pounds on maps, campaigns and an aircraft model that will take hundreds of hours to learn how to fly competently, it helps having an interface tool that can mimic the functions you're trying to simulate.
For Elite, it's complete overkill!
If anyone's hankering after one of these to play toy spaceships with, I've got to say it's not going to perform any better than a mainstream stick. An X-56 can be yours for less than half of what I paid for the Gunfighter and it's got much the same functionality. Having said that, the stick is still a joy to use, even after a year of (pretend) flight and fighting. I can't really recommend spending so much on a game controller, but if you do, you'll be very happy that you did!
Tl;dr The joystick has held up well to it's first year of use. It still feels brand new and has an immense amount of functionality if you chose to play more complex games than Elite Dangerous.
If there are any issues with the stick I'll add to the thread, otherwise I'll report back next June! If you have any questions or queries I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Thanks for reading this far.
May 24, 2018
VKB Gunfighter Pro
Spoiler alert- it's pretty good!
But you probably thought that anyway...
Ok, I've only had it a week now, so these are first impressions, not any attempt at a proper review.
The purchasing experience: An utter joke! VKB EU had months to prepare for their latest delivery, but only got around to updating their website the month before the container was due. They refused to take pre-orders, had no clue what demand there was for the product and their shiny new website sold tons of gear they didn't actually have in stock. :O
I ordered a Gunfighter with English markings and a stick extension. I got a Russian marked grip and the extension- which I've already paid for- will be delivered 'soon'. Eduard, the EU spokesperson, reckons in around a month or so, but the next container won't be here until late July or August, so I've no idea how he thinks he's going to achieve that.
There's some industrial grade incompetence/dodgy business shenanigans going on over in the Netherlands.
Delivery: DHL, really quick with a tracking service. It would have been nice to have an estimated time for the delivery, as my whole household work and there isn't always someone home to take in a parcel, but otherwise no real issues there.
Packaging: A simple cardboard box around the Gunfighter box, no additional protection. A little disappointing, given how expensive the controller and delivery were. VKBs own box and packaging are pretty decent, though, with thick foam around everything, so they might not think any extra padding is necessary.
There are plenty of unboxings on YouTube you can watch, it's neat, compact and feels high quality. As it blooming well ought to!
Assembly: Fairly basic and they include a couple of reasonable quality allen keys so you don't have to go rummaging around your toolbox before you start. Everything goes together well, there's metal where you want it (base, threads, bearings etc) and strong, high quality plastic on the grip itself. There are what looks like scores of spare springs and an alternative set of cams if you prefer a hard detente in your stick. There's also a wee bag filled with spare buttons, so you can swap out any of the five way hats that you might not want. Nice touch.
Set-up: The stick connects to an aluminium firmware box, which has multiple inputs for VKBs pedals, another stick or (eventually) their planned throttle. It's orange, which I really appreciate. My wiring is a total mess, anything to help me figure out what's connected to what is very welcome. The 'black box' connects to your PC via a reasonable length of standard USB cable.
VKB have some software available for button testing, calibration and optimisation. The firmware can be updated if required.
First use: It's pretty much plug and play, it actually took me longer to set up my ED bindings than to put the stick together and test it! I'm still on standard, out of the box settings. I'll try stronger springs at the weekend.
For now, the stick feels light and very responsive. It's very smooth in every direction and actually goes around in a circle, unlike many/most conventional sticks that tend to have a square section hole in the ball and socket connection. (Anyone know why that is? [weird] Surely a circle would be just as easy to mould?) There's no detente and no software dead zone, but it centers beautifully. On standard settings the clutches are unobtrusive, but they dampen any spring or wobble if I let the stick go.
There are only four buttons on the Pro, everything else, including the thumb, is a five way hat or an analog stick. As I said, there are spare buttons if you want to change any of them. Button action is crisp, with a nice click. The five ways are nicely textured and well positioned, but feel much softer. There's no pinky button, but there is one where your ring finger rests. Sadly, thanks to an old injury, my ring finger doesn't work properly! [haha] Ah well, can't blame VKB for that. I can get my middle finger down to it, so no dramas.
The metal folding trigger has a very soft feel, almost spongy. The main trigger feels small (but I do have quite large hands). It has a full travel first stage and a very definite button click on the second stage.
The pinky lever represents a Russian style brake lever and is actually another axis. It's all metal with a really nice feel.
First impressions: The stick is lovely to use. It's very precise without feeling twitchy. The five ways work really well with EDs binding system. All of the buttons, hats and analogs are within easy reach. It looks and feels like a quality product- as it should, considering how much it cost! I'm really glad I bought it, it definitely lives up to the hype.
My main concern is how well will it last? Thrustmaster and Logitech seem to think that two years is reasonable for their flagship hotas'- I strongly disagree. And given that this beastie costs more than most hotas' I'm going to be devastated if it keels over a couple of years from now. The thing seems very well made, with metal moving parts, high quality impact plastic on the body and (so I'm told) top drawer switchgear. Here's hoping that leads to a long life!
Conclusion: This is a beautifully designed and manufactured enthusiast product with a marvelous standard of finish. It feels much better than flagship offerings from the mainstream producers. It's easy to set up and will make a great centre piece for your rig or simpit. But VKB EU are inept to the point of incompetence. If you lack patience or have concerns about customer service and support I'd struggle to recommend dealing with them.
Thanks for reading this far. If you're interested I'll post updates when the rest of my order arrives and possibly give yearly progress reports if VKB stay in business that long!
VKB Gunfighter Pro
Spoiler alert- it's pretty good!
But you probably thought that anyway...
Ok, I've only had it a week now, so these are first impressions, not any attempt at a proper review.
The purchasing experience: An utter joke! VKB EU had months to prepare for their latest delivery, but only got around to updating their website the month before the container was due. They refused to take pre-orders, had no clue what demand there was for the product and their shiny new website sold tons of gear they didn't actually have in stock. :O
I ordered a Gunfighter with English markings and a stick extension. I got a Russian marked grip and the extension- which I've already paid for- will be delivered 'soon'. Eduard, the EU spokesperson, reckons in around a month or so, but the next container won't be here until late July or August, so I've no idea how he thinks he's going to achieve that.
There's some industrial grade incompetence/dodgy business shenanigans going on over in the Netherlands.
Delivery: DHL, really quick with a tracking service. It would have been nice to have an estimated time for the delivery, as my whole household work and there isn't always someone home to take in a parcel, but otherwise no real issues there.
Packaging: A simple cardboard box around the Gunfighter box, no additional protection. A little disappointing, given how expensive the controller and delivery were. VKBs own box and packaging are pretty decent, though, with thick foam around everything, so they might not think any extra padding is necessary.
There are plenty of unboxings on YouTube you can watch, it's neat, compact and feels high quality. As it blooming well ought to!
Assembly: Fairly basic and they include a couple of reasonable quality allen keys so you don't have to go rummaging around your toolbox before you start. Everything goes together well, there's metal where you want it (base, threads, bearings etc) and strong, high quality plastic on the grip itself. There are what looks like scores of spare springs and an alternative set of cams if you prefer a hard detente in your stick. There's also a wee bag filled with spare buttons, so you can swap out any of the five way hats that you might not want. Nice touch.
Set-up: The stick connects to an aluminium firmware box, which has multiple inputs for VKBs pedals, another stick or (eventually) their planned throttle. It's orange, which I really appreciate. My wiring is a total mess, anything to help me figure out what's connected to what is very welcome. The 'black box' connects to your PC via a reasonable length of standard USB cable.
VKB have some software available for button testing, calibration and optimisation. The firmware can be updated if required.
First use: It's pretty much plug and play, it actually took me longer to set up my ED bindings than to put the stick together and test it! I'm still on standard, out of the box settings. I'll try stronger springs at the weekend.
For now, the stick feels light and very responsive. It's very smooth in every direction and actually goes around in a circle, unlike many/most conventional sticks that tend to have a square section hole in the ball and socket connection. (Anyone know why that is? [weird] Surely a circle would be just as easy to mould?) There's no detente and no software dead zone, but it centers beautifully. On standard settings the clutches are unobtrusive, but they dampen any spring or wobble if I let the stick go.
There are only four buttons on the Pro, everything else, including the thumb, is a five way hat or an analog stick. As I said, there are spare buttons if you want to change any of them. Button action is crisp, with a nice click. The five ways are nicely textured and well positioned, but feel much softer. There's no pinky button, but there is one where your ring finger rests. Sadly, thanks to an old injury, my ring finger doesn't work properly! [haha] Ah well, can't blame VKB for that. I can get my middle finger down to it, so no dramas.
The metal folding trigger has a very soft feel, almost spongy. The main trigger feels small (but I do have quite large hands). It has a full travel first stage and a very definite button click on the second stage.
The pinky lever represents a Russian style brake lever and is actually another axis. It's all metal with a really nice feel.
First impressions: The stick is lovely to use. It's very precise without feeling twitchy. The five ways work really well with EDs binding system. All of the buttons, hats and analogs are within easy reach. It looks and feels like a quality product- as it should, considering how much it cost! I'm really glad I bought it, it definitely lives up to the hype.
My main concern is how well will it last? Thrustmaster and Logitech seem to think that two years is reasonable for their flagship hotas'- I strongly disagree. And given that this beastie costs more than most hotas' I'm going to be devastated if it keels over a couple of years from now. The thing seems very well made, with metal moving parts, high quality impact plastic on the body and (so I'm told) top drawer switchgear. Here's hoping that leads to a long life!
Conclusion: This is a beautifully designed and manufactured enthusiast product with a marvelous standard of finish. It feels much better than flagship offerings from the mainstream producers. It's easy to set up and will make a great centre piece for your rig or simpit. But VKB EU are inept to the point of incompetence. If you lack patience or have concerns about customer service and support I'd struggle to recommend dealing with them.
Thanks for reading this far. If you're interested I'll post updates when the rest of my order arrives and possibly give yearly progress reports if VKB stay in business that long!
Jul 16, 2018
VKB Gunfighter Pro Update 1
Well, Eduard was on the money with his estimated time for delivery- it turned up mid June, just as promised. He's stuck to his promises and that's very reassuring. Maybe I'll consider buying another product of theirs at some point. Their website is being updated and they're taking on board customer feedback, particularly with regards to pre orders. Hopefully this year's fiasco won't be repeated!
The extension consists of a very robust 's' shaped tube with all the gubbins required to attach it between the grip and base. A new, much smaller plate, suitable for simpit fixing, is included, as are a bag of very strong springs.
Fitting requires stripping the base and removing the gimbal. It's a straightforward proceedure, no more difficult than breaking down an airbrush or firearm for cleaning. It's a great opportunity to admire the superb workmanship, but rather worrying to realise you'll be grabbing hold of delicate looking circuit boards when you remove and reattach the springs.
I couldn't find any instructions specific to the Gunfighter, but there's a video of replacing springs and cams on a similar base on the official VKB youtube channel. The chap in that video uses flat nosed pliers to remove and reattach the springs, so I attempted to do the same.
Removing the stock springs wasn't particularly difficult, but fitting the newer, stronger ones was extremely difficult using conventional pliers. I had some cheap circlip pliers to hand, which allowed me to finish the job, but it really needs a better quality tool. I'll be adding one to my kit for future use. If you prefer lighter springs, or are happy with the stock springs and cams, it won't be an issue.
Reassembly was a breeze and the small base fits just as snug as the original.
The next problem was with my simpit. The Pagnian GT Ultimate's centre mount didn't depress low enough to mount the stick at the desired height, so it was out with the old Dremmel to cut about five inches out of the slider.
I'd love to tell you how I then bolted it into position on a carefully resized mounting plate, re-ran the wiring and tidied my rig up to look all ship shape and Bristol fashion. Sadly, with a bit of double sided tape holding it in place, I made the mistake of 'testing'... for about four hours straight! [haha]
I will get around to cosmetics and fixing it permanently in place at some point, but for now, I'm way too busy flying to be bothered with all that!
It's really comfortable, set at exatly the right height for me, where a conventional stick would be on a glider or warbird. The additional strength in the springs allows it to recentre as well as before, but the additional range of movement feels much better. Even my Type 9 seems more responsive! I read a lot about more precision with extension sets, which may be true, but for me the advantage is the impression that I'm applying maximum pitch or roll. It just feels more like flying.
I'm getting comfortable with my new key bindings, too. Heavily loaded landings, chugging around ring systems and light combat all feel more natural and intuitive. It really is a joy to use!
A long planned family visit has taken me stateside, so I'm taking a wee break from virtual flying, but on the plus side I've finally gotten around to writing the update.
Tl;dr- The extension really enhances an already superb controller.
If you're considering a VKB grip and have the space for the s-stick, I can heartily recommend both. The EU suppliers seem to be making ammends for their earlier mishaps and most importantly, they're listening to customer feeback. My purchasing experience was poor, but the guys have done what they can to mitigate the worst effects of their mistakes and are moving toward better systems and proceedures. I'm not quite ready to fanboi for them, but they've come a long way in a short period of time. I wish them well for the future.
So, on to our first year together.
The stick still looks and feels brand new, with no slack in the gimbal, no play in the buttons and hats.
There is an occasional issue with ghost button presses. I have chaff firing mapped to the stick and it will start shooting on full stick deflection. It's a minor irritation, calibrating the stick sorts it out, straight away. It happens at irregular intervals, so I'm not able to overcome it with regular calibration runs. It's very infrequent- less than once a month- but a cause for concern all the same.
I haven't been able to reach a trigger arrangement I like with Elite Dangerous. I have plenty of buttons and levers available, but nothing that feels natural with EDs rather odd maximum of two firing key bindings. I want to be able to fire either group individually or both together. With three triggers available it ought to be easy, but ED will only allow two trigger options at a time. That means having to hold down two triggers simultaneously to get both firing groups singing. Nothing I set up on the stick feels natural while doing that. This is a problem with ED though, not the stick!
What does feel very natural is using five way hats to control various functions. My target selection options are on the right side of the stick, manoeuvering thrusters are central and power management is under my thumb on the left. I can alter my ship's trim, flick through menu options, spin the ship and all without taking my hand off the stick. EDs interface gets more cluttered with every update, the stick has kept me on top of them so far.
Moving a little further afield, the stick is really intended for flight sims and it's there (hardly surprisingly) that it really shines.
For older sims the feel from the stick the way I've set mine up is very close to my (extremely limited!) real world flight experience. I have almost no resistance to small stick movements, but a definite, pronounced increase in tension toward the edge of the stick's throw.
Older sims are less complex, so there are buttons to spare, but DCS completely overwhelms even a HOTAS and keyboard. The solution I've come up with is to map essential commands onto the HOTAS and use a trackerball mouse to select push buttons and switches from inside the cockpit. It's less mentally taxing than having to learn an insane number of key presses and even helps with immersion. Of course, I can't find a left handed trackerball, so I have to fly left handed while reaching for knobs and dials, but again, that mimics real life, where older 'planes have very busy cockpits. Very immersive!
I think it's in study level models, where a single software aircraft can cost twice as much as a triple A game, that products like the Gunfighter make at least some sense. When you're laying down hundreds of pounds on maps, campaigns and an aircraft model that will take hundreds of hours to learn how to fly competently, it helps having an interface tool that can mimic the functions you're trying to simulate.
For Elite, it's complete overkill!
If anyone's hankering after one of these to play toy spaceships with, I've got to say it's not going to perform any better than a mainstream stick. An X-56 can be yours for less than half of what I paid for the Gunfighter and it's got much the same functionality. Having said that, the stick is still a joy to use, even after a year of (pretend) flight and fighting. I can't really recommend spending so much on a game controller, but if you do, you'll be very happy that you did!
Tl;dr The joystick has held up well to it's first year of use. It still feels brand new and has an immense amount of functionality if you chose to play more complex games than Elite Dangerous.
If there are any issues with the stick I'll add to the thread, otherwise I'll report back next June! If you have any questions or queries I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Thanks for reading this far.
