Hence the reason for no autopilot/navigation and having to fly to a specific station to transfer non sensitive data when we have an instantaneous galactic network.
Horizons VOTE Change Gunner View to same as SRV Turets and swap between them!
- Thread starter X-Terminator
- Start date
Hence the reason for no autopilot/navigation and having to fly to a specific station to transfer non sensitive data when we have an instantaneous galactic network.
I'd go for option 2. It's a cool idea, if we were flying strategic/tactical bombers during world war 2, and our ships couldn't maneuver that well and we could shoot down small stunt-fighters with a few bursts. However, this is not world war 2, the Time to kill ratio is over a minute, and that is when you constantly hit them, for even small ships and most ships do not fly in a straight line, in order to give gunners a stable gunplatform. I get the point, but the feature would be litterally useless, if you did it like that, you'd have little time to actually orient yourself. You'd spend more time switching turret seats than actually hitting anything and it would require all ships to have a hardpoint redesign in order to compensate for some major blindspots: See anaconda backside.
Option 1: Make it useless so every sane captain just kick out every crew member who try to take turret control
Option 2: Make it somewhat useful so it not be such a horrible idea allow a crew member to take turret control
Which option i should choice?
And BTW option 1 should go with demand to remove all gimbals weapons from the game.
Option 2: Make it somewhat useful so it not be such a horrible idea allow a crew member to take turret control
Which option i should choice?
And BTW option 1 should go with demand to remove all gimbals weapons from the game.
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*sigh* so much butthurt over something people haven't even used yet.
And again: that "turret view" thing sounds cool, but plays like crap. It hasn't worked well in any game in decades, and it wouldn't work in this one.
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Also, congratulations on your very leading "poll options", OP. They're exactly the reason why forum polls are completely useless.
And again: that "turret view" thing sounds cool, but plays like crap. It hasn't worked well in any game in decades, and it wouldn't work in this one.
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Woohoo! Finally a subforum with good settings!
Also, congratulations on your very leading "poll options", OP. They're exactly the reason why forum polls are completely useless.
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WOW! This isnt the game I bought.....I'm glad I'm not playing this.
I agree. They did it in F: E2, they should be able to do it again.
X-Terminator
Banned
Thank you for all your comments. Nice to have a civil discussion about this development although some of the anti are still throwing back childish remarks which btw the pro side does NOT! The VR players are perplexed by this whole external god-like arcade mode and are most disheartened at this backwards step for a lack of developing some better graphical immersive method of being in the cockpit! The Captain fights in his chair so why the hell doesn't the Gunner!!!
Let us accept that this is a CHEAP SOLUTION most probably due to getting lazy or greedy not to spend on DEV invested monies to get the most out of what they took from us. If it was for Dev health issues then that is understandable as we all go through hard times in life.
I will make this perfectly clear...from what I have seen so far it simply is not enough and the very things added are all short lived. It may satisfy XBOX players but for a ground breaking PC sim this is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Every release lacks in Content and never gets completed. Why should we expect this to ever change after it is released?
What we really want: - CONTENT / INTERACTION / GOOD CONNECTION / MILITARY ROLES / CRIME PUNISHMENT / ONLINE BOUNTY LISTS etc.
Let us accept that this is a CHEAP SOLUTION most probably due to getting lazy or greedy not to spend on DEV invested monies to get the most out of what they took from us. If it was for Dev health issues then that is understandable as we all go through hard times in life.
I will make this perfectly clear...from what I have seen so far it simply is not enough and the very things added are all short lived. It may satisfy XBOX players but for a ground breaking PC sim this is NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Every release lacks in Content and never gets completed. Why should we expect this to ever change after it is released?
What we really want: - CONTENT / INTERACTION / GOOD CONNECTION / MILITARY ROLES / CRIME PUNISHMENT / ONLINE BOUNTY LISTS etc.
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I feel like the gunner view is a pretty elegant solution that is going to add a lot of QUALITY GAMEPLAY HOURS for myself and many others. It's some great content that fosters interaction between players. I feel it'll form some great connections between captain and gunner. And Frontier adding the gunner position and multicrew fighters as military roles is really pleasing me. I'll be able to join my friends for missions, mining, and if we mess up, I suppose I'll also share in the punishment for our crimes.
I am so jazzed about the direction Frontier is taking the game. Hopefully this is the first step of many to add depth to the vast breadth of the game. RIGHT ON, FRONTIER!!! I can't wait to join my friends for some fun in this sim game. We finally all have VR and I know we're going to sink hours upon hours into this. We're already fighting over who gets to be gunner
OVERWHELMINGLY VOTE 2, LEAVE AS IT. IT LOOKS PERFECT. - From myself and all my VR friends who don't have forum accounts
I am so jazzed about the direction Frontier is taking the game. Hopefully this is the first step of many to add depth to the vast breadth of the game. RIGHT ON, FRONTIER!!! I can't wait to join my friends for some fun in this sim game. We finally all have VR and I know we're going to sink hours upon hours into this. We're already fighting over who gets to be gunner
OVERWHELMINGLY VOTE 2, LEAVE AS IT. IT LOOKS PERFECT. - From myself and all my VR friends who don't have forum accounts
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HHHmmmm I think the MAIN WORRY is not the 'break'in immersion.....
As much as the possible advantage in combat .... A single player has no idea what 'he/she' is going up against.. """" if I attack ..does this ship have one"player" or 2,or 3 ?
.
...TWO large ships going into combat ,one with a crew and one with out.... the one without DOES have a disadvantage being stuck with the front view.
Whereas multi crew now with the XT camera ,can constantly track and fire .A single player will have to loop -dive around to -find and re-acquire target,
In-fact I think a multi crew ship with mega shields could just stand still or just cruise along in a straight line...
.
IT puts a mockery on Frontiers explanation for why 'we' have ships with such a slow horizontal turn rate..." to prevent ships from just becoming gun/turrets and just sitting still and spinning around left and right ------this is called "turreting".
OR + turreting is a symptom most of the time when games allow high pitch and yaw rates in space games, it leads to extremely easy tracking targets as you can just play the game like a FPS shooter."
.
AND with single player ship V single player ship . A player can 'hide' behind asteroids, use silent running .. i 'think' this becomes redundant with the 'current views to be'..
FINALLY.. imagine having 2 or 3 multi crew ships interdicting a single player ship....wow it becomes a turkey shoot.
...I just spent a good hour trying to find the vid-link where David and Dev staff talk about this.. but i can not find it at the moment ... i will try to return with the links..
As much as the possible advantage in combat .... A single player has no idea what 'he/she' is going up against.. """" if I attack ..does this ship have one"player" or 2,or 3 ?
.
...TWO large ships going into combat ,one with a crew and one with out.... the one without DOES have a disadvantage being stuck with the front view.
Whereas multi crew now with the XT camera ,can constantly track and fire .A single player will have to loop -dive around to -find and re-acquire target,
In-fact I think a multi crew ship with mega shields could just stand still or just cruise along in a straight line...
.
IT puts a mockery on Frontiers explanation for why 'we' have ships with such a slow horizontal turn rate..." to prevent ships from just becoming gun/turrets and just sitting still and spinning around left and right ------this is called "turreting".
OR + turreting is a symptom most of the time when games allow high pitch and yaw rates in space games, it leads to extremely easy tracking targets as you can just play the game like a FPS shooter."
.
AND with single player ship V single player ship . A player can 'hide' behind asteroids, use silent running .. i 'think' this becomes redundant with the 'current views to be'..
FINALLY.. imagine having 2 or 3 multi crew ships interdicting a single player ship....wow it becomes a turkey shoot.
...I just spent a good hour trying to find the vid-link where David and Dev staff talk about this.. but i can not find it at the moment ... i will try to return with the links..
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I'm sorry but it's very important for me to ask you this: Have you ever played Elite: Dangerous? "Loop and dive around to find and re-acquire target"??? Have you seen the radar that's right there in the center of the screen? The piece of technology specifically crafted to do the finding and tracking of targets?
"A player can 'hide' behind asteroids, use silent running..."??? Have you tried doing this against a real person? I think not because if you had, then you'd have noticed how exceedingly easy it is to track someone trying to hide anywhere within range (again, using the radar feature which has been in the game since launch) without the necessity of... looking around a corner? With the 3rd person came- No. I'm sorry, the very concept is too stupid to consider. Did you even look at the livestream video showing off the gunner view? You actually think that this feature could be used to look around corners? IN SPACE?
I'm sorry but no, this is too ridiculous, some of the complaints raised against the gunner view are perfectly valid (not liking it for example is FINE, saying you don't like it is valid because it is your opinion), but this kind of argument? You guys are hurting your case with this nonsense and wasting everyone's time. Please just stop and start making actual arguments that are based on reality.
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Hell, even the immersion argument holds SOME weight compared to this, go back to that or something.
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X-Terminator
Banned
All the arguments to say the arcade god-mode is great have not experienced it either so I really do not understand why so many are for this when it could and most likely be a fast fad! Something is very wrong if they are trying so hard on here to prevent any worrying concerns before they know for themselves!
I tried going back to debug camera in VR and placed it on top of the Ship where turrets usually are best positioned. Now if the Radar was overlayed as a HUD and they too must Select Targets (why would a GUNNER even ignore RADAR to simply look around!!!) then the turret view would gimble lock onto that Selected Target to prevent any dizziness. You then can only see the actual view from any turret just as the SRV and any Targets behind the Ship get dashed circles. This is bleeding simple and NOT archaic at all. A bleeding arcade is cheesy!
The Targeting System in VR is my concern here too as there is totally zero point to look around you when it can not follow targets in those directions obviously!
I tried going back to debug camera in VR and placed it on top of the Ship where turrets usually are best positioned. Now if the Radar was overlayed as a HUD and they too must Select Targets (why would a GUNNER even ignore RADAR to simply look around!!!) then the turret view would gimble lock onto that Selected Target to prevent any dizziness. You then can only see the actual view from any turret just as the SRV and any Targets behind the Ship get dashed circles. This is bleeding simple and NOT archaic at all. A bleeding arcade is cheesy!
The Targeting System in VR is my concern here too as there is totally zero point to look around you when it can not follow targets in those directions obviously!
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Well then WOOF WOOF here because I think it looks great.
As for X-Terminator, wow, you must REALLY have some insecurities to think that third person view is god mode. Since I've played more than one videogame, I DO in fact have experience with this. Third person view comes with its own set of drawbacks. You get a skewed sense of perspective. It's not first person. You're right. But third person is available TO THE PLAYER by the LORE and it would JUST MAKE SENSE to use it in the gunner position. It is not God Mode like you say. If it were so powerful, why wouldn't all competitive FPS games be played in third person? :S[woah][wacko]
AHA I think I got you there, huh? [rolleyes]
Oh well. For the rest of us who want to play a space game with VARIETY AND CHARACTER I'll be over here waiting patiently for the MC beta!
Having played ED in a Rift, I reckon the way FD has done "Gunner" view is the only one that will allow me to keep my lunch down.
At the speed our ships roll, I doubt an in-turret POV would be effective, in terms of being a gunner.
At the speed our ships roll, I doubt an in-turret POV would be effective, in terms of being a gunner.
X-Terminator
Banned
OK for totally any angle and position of Turrets (naturally best fitted on top and rear!) all you do is create a target panel which has the Ship hologram and View from each Turret as per SRV (perfect use of holo in all seriousness) and it does not contain the environment on said panel to see stuff float around like Stars etc. Once the Target is in view of chosen Turret you would see a still shot of the Ship's hologram and use RADAR to select all targets - NOT by looking around 360!
NO MOTION SICKNESS HERE!
NO MOTION SICKNESS HERE!
I don't think that swapping from turret to turret would work. What I would have prefered would have been a gunner station that looks different, that is on a gimbal and moves around within the cockpit. Around the gunner position you have a 360 degree HUD similar to what it is like but the view is from within the ship from a fixed point and you can just move around and track your targets like it currently is, the HUD makes the ship your are in ghosted wireframe so you can see through it. It would be like a shooter on rails with a full 360deg arc.
But we have what we have. I'm sure it will be fun. It should just the telepresence that has me worried not just for this update bit for future updates.
It's actually difficult to explain writing it down.
But we have what we have. I'm sure it will be fun. It should just the telepresence that has me worried not just for this update bit for future updates.
It's actually difficult to explain writing it down.
Obviously not having actually played the beta, I would say at this point that what they have done makes logical sense if the aim of the game is to be fun. Switching between restricted view turrets might sound good in theory but I could imagine it would be a nightmare to actually hit anything.
Frontier seem to have spent a long time developing the character creator. It appears to me that the gunner position addition has been thrown in just to give 'reason' to look at our characters. Maybe they should have given us space legs and access to walking about in stations before this ad hoc solution. I don't think this is a very linear development for the game and is just upsetting people who don't have the patience to wait for space legs and something to do once we get them. I don't recall the forum being full of cmdrs demanding multicrew for gunners position, do you ? I appreciate that Frontier isn't a AAA studio. I'm disappointed that they have now included 3rd person view which for the purist gamer of old, is an absolute NO NO. It's all going to become a game for the 'winner' rather than the outstanding beauty and originality that attracted me to the game in the first place. I fear it's now too commercialised to become the game that I and many others so desperately wanted. It's almost as though the gaming industry has coerced David Braben into changing the game into something that sells to the 'easy win' 'quick fun' audience. I suppose they are the biggest market and that's where the big bucks are, eh David !
Gez so Hardcore.
why not have the option, so others can play their way.
If the option is there, you don't have to use it.