VR for a total beginner in relation specifically to ED

[Rock Hunter]

Where on earth do I start? Let's go with my specs and personal requirements after a little preamble.

Firstly, I've never so much as peeked through any kind of VR kit, the closest I could possibly suggest I've come to experiencing it would be my £20 EDTracker....so, not in the slightest then. Obviously like most ED players I have become hooked and now would like to fully dive into the ED galaxy shunning all family, pets, responsibilities and work duties and VR seems to be the best way to do this.

I've been running Elite on a fairly typical mid sized flat screen 27" 1080 Acer S271HL monitor with an i5 6400, GTX 1050Ti and 16Gb RAM powering (if you can call it that by most peoples standards) it all. I run VA and a X55 HOTAS for the game with an old Saitek gaming pad for the SRV and camera controls. So this week my upgrades begin, nothing spectacular, with an i7 6700K CPU, an upgraded PSU Corsair CX650 (650W) and a GTX 1070 8Gb.

I've been playing games at very low fps for years - Wildlands and Far Cry 5 have had me running around in Ultra everything mode at around 20-30fps and I've never really noticed or been bothered about performance. Whilst I know low fps in VR will be a very different (awful) experience I mention this just to highlight that my tolerance for lower end specs is fairly high and I'm not looking (or expecting) the best experience available.

With this in mind I now need to look into headset options and I'm starting from a pretty low level knowledge base.

I very much doubt that I'll ever be found prancing around my room in VR punching baddies or playing tennis so I don't require the full room experience which, from what I've read so far, opens my options up pretty well. I know about the Rift and Vive as they're pretty much market leaders but know very little about WMR or the Pimax 4K...or any others for that matter. I also don't know what I should be looking for, what questions are the most pertinent to ask or the best places to find out information (particularly in relation to Elite Dangerous and my future specs.)

So my first port of call is the VR sub-forum of the Elite Dangerous forums in the hope that the people that use VR for the game I want to use it in will be the best place to focus my research intially.

NB. I haven't mentioned my budget yet. Mostly because it's fluid and will depend on best value for the system specs I have and the fact that I don't want to spend more than is necessary or wise for someone who doesn't yet know if they even have the stomach for VR (though I've never suffered from any form of motion sickness and am generally pretty sturdy.)

Finally, I mentioned WMR above and that intrigues me with its visor, easy set-up and no need for any form of room cams, issues around connectivity wit ED are concerns.

Any advice, help, opinions, questions or discussion would be a huge help to me.

With thanks

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

At first, i can guarantee, that Elite in VR is still one of the best experiences you can have with this technology.

When i started VR, i had an i5 4690K, a GTX 970 GPU, 16 Gigs of RAM and a regular HDD. I was able to play Elite on medium VR settings at the necessary FPS. The following year i upgraded to a GTX1080ti, a 4790K i7, 32 Gigs of RAM and 2 SSDs (one being an M.2), which made Elite a complete different game in VR... i am now able to run the game at almost full ultra settings with decent FPS.
Your upgraded hardware will do well and will definitely allow you, to play Elite in VR high settings. If you haven´t already, get an SSD. This helps to reduce stutter due to content and texture loading to an absolute minimum.

I use a combination of a Thrustmaster Warthog, t.flight rudder pedals, Cougar MFDs and a G13 Logitech Gaming-Keyboard for input. From that point of view, you seem to be fitted quite well for a decent VR experience.
To really add another level of the i-word (immersion), i strongly recommend the use of a custom transducer setup, fitted to your gaming seat. Feeling the ships engine, the hits you receive and the rubble under the wheels of the SRV is so incredible in VR, you will never want to play without anymore. An investment of round about 100,- € / $ will do the trick. You will need an additional soundcard, a car receiver and 2 to 3 transducers. Feel free, to ask for details, if you like.

Now to the most important part. Personally, i use an Oculus Rift CV1 since the original launch date and i am pretty pleased with the performance it delivers. Is this the final answer? No. Because what a VR headset offers for one self is quite subjective. You can compare different types of HMDs from resolution, latency and other things - which one will suit you best and deliver the best experience is totally up to you.
What i recommend, is taking a look at the best candidates to date and try them at a local store if you have the chance. I would take the the HTC Vive Pro, the Pimax 5k and the Oculus Quest into account, besides the regular Rift. 6 DoF makes a great difference for me, so i would not recommend any HMD with only 3 DoF. The ability to actually move adds so much to the feeling of actually being there, that i consider 3 DoF HMDs a waste. But that again is a personal thing.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask and fly dangerous CMDR! o7

 

[Rock Hunter]

Thanks Frank. You've raised some questions and possibilities I hadn't considered....or known about (specifically the gaming chair - ED opened a can of worms; first a HOTAS, then VA and leading on to VR....now a chair that moves in relation to the game. This could end up being very expensive if only in terms of my marriage!)

I've got a 250Gb SSD that has ED on it and not much else. I use various external hard drives and clouds to store most of my data so that leaves what is by today's standards a quite small SSD fairly free.

I had assumed that all VR was 6 DoF, which shows my knowledge level, so thats a very interesting point to look into. I'd certainly want to have that level of freedom/movement within any game. I had also assumed (I've been doing a lot of that) my new specs would still struggle to make the most of the Pimax 5K from what I have read about it.

One of the things that interested me about the WMR was the increased resolution and making it easier to read text within the game. I recognize, from what others have said, that the lower general resolution of VR is massively offset by the immersive nature but any extra resolution without a huge impact on performance sounds like a bonus.

Hearing real world experience from players is invaluable so thanks again for taking the time to help and advise.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Thanks Frank. You've ... advise.

You´re welcome - As said, feel free to ask.

I play in VR exclusively for 2 years now. No chance, that i return to the flat screen... and i only play Elite and Project CARS 2, besides trying a demo here and there. My PC is for VR only and the lack of any disturbing other software seems to give VR the edge when it comes to performance. It is quite a good approach you are taking there.

 

[znôrt]

i had it easier, i preordered the rift when the only choice was rift or vive. i've (informally) tested both and prefer the rift, but they are pretty equivalent. then again, from the looks of how facebook is reacting maybe the vive would have been a better choice in the long run, if only because its sensors are standard and compatible with newer headsets (the rift's aren't). this is incovenient because to use the current killer headset (pimax 5k+) i would have to buy some vive stations (out of stock), wait for pimax'es (no eta) or dig up some used ones.

6dof (and thus stations/sensors) are important even if you're seated and not into roomscale (which i do seldom, mostly only when friends stop by), like Frank says they do factor a lot into immersion (which is 99% of the point in vr!). so i've opted to wait and see for a few months, since i'm actually very very happy with the rift. i'm hyped with the definition and fov of the 5k+ but that would be more than 1000 euro on a whim and don't want to rush it, deliveries are months away anyway and the market is pretty scrambled right now.

regarding performance, contrary to you i've always preferred smoothness over resolution or graphic detail, and in vr much more so. even micro stuttering in vr i find very annoying. so horses for courses! anyway, if you plan to do vr and are ready for such toys, then it makes a lot of sense to get the best gpu you can, which is nowadays the 1080ti (2080ti is a tiny bit better in this area at a ridiculuously huge price difference) and is money well invested. even if the current trend seems to be light and autonomous headsets there is no way those can handle games like elite by themselves without some considerable technology leap, so i suspect some form of wireless streaming will be coming up to put the gpu to good use even with the trend of cheap headsets the market seems to want.

yeah, money, this is absorbing. apart from the gpu, i've gone from keyboard + cheap joystick to x52pro with track-ir (i also tried tobii eye tracking which didn't convince me) to vr + dual virpil sticks + crosswind pedals + a stand to hold them all neatly together + a butt kicker on the chair. this has been gradual, and the combined experience is very good, so much so that i can hardly be convinced to play these games without. i might even build a pit with all that some day. in general if you like flight (or also racing) sims, that's a good combo.

last but not least, i suggest you try out vr first somewhere, mainly based on you preference of high resolution and cranked up effects. if you go vr you should forget about the gorgeous screenshots in high resolution you can see of the game. different worlds.

 

[Cliché]

... with an i7 6700K CPU, an upgraded PSU Corsair CX650 (650W) and a GTX 1070 8Gb.

I have a similar setup, i7 4790k and GTX 1080. I can just about handle VR High settings, maybe even a few ultra settings, with PD set to 1.25 or 1.5 (can't remember). I don't think there is any chance either of our systems could handle the higher resolution of the Vive Pro or the Pimax 5k, even at VR Low settings. I think most around here will agree that the Rift CV1, which I have, beats out the Vive for ED. I don't know about the Odyssey or any of the newer headsets.

Now don't get me wrong. I love ED in VR. The feeling of presence, the depth perception, the 1:1 head tracking - it's an awesome experience. And with VA and a HOTAS there is never a need to touch the keyboard except for text chat, but that's what voice comms are for. But after close to two years, I just couldn't take the low resolution, low FOV, hard-to-read text any more. I basically quit VR and ED about 5 months ago, waiting for the Q4 update. In the mean time I picked up a cheap 43" 4K monitor and broke out my old Track IR. I started by playing American Truck Simulator while waiting for ED Q4 to drop. At first I couldn't stand the variable speed head tracking. And the monitor had lousy black levels, which makes everything too dark in dark situations, like night driving (or space). But after a while I just couldn't get over how good things looked in 4K - at least driving during the day. Now I've been playing the beta for several days and just love the look of ED again (even in space). The big screen even feels about like the same scuba mask FOV of the Rift. Yeah, the head tracking still kind of sucks and I really miss the depth perception and sense of scale, but I just can't go back to VR for ED or ATS (can barely read the road signs).

I'm waiting for the next generation of HMDs and the GPUs that can handle them. It looks like the Pimax 5K is pretty close, but I'll wait for true 4K per eye (hopefully from a higher quality manufacturer). I sure hope someone is working on it. I figure I'll have to wait another 2 years, but then the VR experience will be truly brilliant.

But VR is still great as it is. I bought Lone Echo on the summer sale, but haven't played it yet. Race track/road course driving games are pretty good too, as long as you don't need to read the exit signs. And the cost of a new CV1 is really pretty cheap, compared to 2 years ago, and you can always go used for a lot less. I'll still recommend VR, and I really think you'll enjoy the ED experience. Just don't set your expectations too high.

Who knows, maybe I'll switch back to the Rift after I start playing full time again (I really miss "being" in a space ship). But for now I'm sold on 4K. My plans are to look for a Black Friday sale on a nice big OLED 4K TV/monitor (still need to do my research on that), that will become my main TV when the next generation of VR is finally available, because I'll definitely be buying that - at any cost.

Good luck in VR.

 

[A D]

At first, i can guarantee, that Elite in VR is still one of the best experiences you can have with this technology.

When i started VR, i had an i5 4690K, a GTX 970 GPU, 16 Gigs of RAM and a regular HDD. I was able to play Elite on medium VR settings at the necessary FPS. The following year i upgraded to a GTX1080ti, a 4790K i7, 32 Gigs of RAM and 2 SSDs (one being an M.2), which made Elite a complete different game in VR... i am now able to run the game at almost full ultra settings with decent FPS.
Your upgraded hardware will do well and will definitely allow you, to play Elite in VR high settings. If you haven´t already, get an SSD. This helps to reduce stutter due to content and texture loading to an absolute minimum.

I use a combination of a Thrustmaster Warthog, t.flight rudder pedals, Cougar MFDs and a G13 Logitech Gaming-Keyboard for input. From that point of view, you seem to be fitted quite well for a decent VR experience.
To really add another level of the i-word (immersion), i strongly recommend the use of a custom transducer setup, fitted to your gaming seat. Feeling the ships engine, the hits you receive and the rubble under the wheels of the SRV is so incredible in VR, you will never want to play without anymore. An investment of round about 100,- € / $ will do the trick. You will need an additional soundcard, a car receiver and 2 to 3 transducers. Feel free, to ask for details, if you like.

Now to the most important part. Personally, i use an Oculus Rift CV1 since the original launch date and i am pretty pleased with the performance it delivers. Is this the final answer? No. Because what a VR headset offers for one self is quite subjective. You can compare different types of HMDs from resolution, latency and other things - which one will suit you best and deliver the best experience is totally up to you.
What i recommend, is taking a look at the best candidates to date and try them at a local store if you have the chance. I would take the the HTC Vive Pro, the Pimax 5k and the Oculus Quest into account, besides the regular Rift. 6 DoF makes a great difference for me, so i would not recommend any HMD with only 3 DoF. The ability to actually move adds so much to the feeling of actually being there, that i consider 3 DoF HMDs a waste. But that again is a personal thing.

I hope this helps. Feel free to ask and fly dangerous CMDR! o7

Pretty much this ----^

...would add I have been using the Oculus Rift for more than 12 months almost entirely on ED and pretty happy with it so far.

 

[Rock Hunter]

Thank you all for the replies you’ve given so far.

I’m ready and, from my research and reading, aware that graphic quality is the trade off in return for an ‘inside’ experience. Though until I actually experience VR it’s almost impossible to know exactly where on the spectrum of personal acceptance those graphics will rank. It’s tough, probably unfair, to judge them from YouTube clips but so far that’s all I’ve got to go on and the experience would appear to overcome those issues for me. However, this is where some user reviews and opinions would be welcome from users of different systems.

I’d been interested in the WMR system, perhaps specifically the Odyssey with its 1440x1600 resolution and AMOLED display, in an effort to get 6 DoF without base stations, 110 degree view and built in headphones. It seemed like a great alternative but it seems it leaves much to be desired on the software/integration front according to many reviews. With price of the CV1 coming down so much and used always being a very cheap, though always slightly riskier option, I’m wondering if I’m just being daft not plumping for what is a very strong and secure player in the market.

If I were to opt for a used Rift CV1, for example, would I need to look for a minimum of two base stations to ensure that I would get the full ‘seated pilot experience’ or is one cam enough? With two base stations would I need to place one in front and one behind if I wanted to do a mini tour of my ship e.g. see what the back of my seat looks like. Some of the base mechanics of VR are still unknown to me and much of the information Google throws up is clearly based on most readers have some knowledge or experience, a deeper dive into Google can see you instantly thrown into a far deeper knowledge pool when I’m still trying to paddle my way out to some fairly basic understanding.

Apologies for clumsy metaphors

 

[znôrt]

If I were to opt for a used Rift CV1, for example, would I need to look for a minimum of two base stations to ensure that I would get the full ‘seated pilot experience’ or is one cam enough?

one is enough for seated gameplay. you might even do roomscale with some limitations or quirks depending on the game. for some games (eg "the climb") even 2 can fall a bit short. keep in mid that oculus sensors only work with the oculus, though.

 

[Rock Hunter]

one is enough for seated gameplay. you might even do roomscale with some limitations or quirks depending on the game. for some games (eg "the climb") even 2 can fall a bit short. keep in mid that oculus sensors only work with the oculus, though.

Do Vive's sensor work across the board with other HMD's? Initially, and perhaps for some time, having oculus sensors wouldn't present a problem but I see that switching HMD's in the future yet using pre-existing sensors would be a nice way of keeping unnecessary costs in check. Brings to my mind the question of development and whether sensor technology is more stable/slow whilst HMD/projection/imaging is the focus of the leading companies?

Thanks again to all, these may seem obvious and simple issues but your suggestions have given me a good idea of where to start looking and what I'm looking for.

 

[Ozram]

Even though you will be seated most of the time, there’s nothing like getting up and walking around the inside of your cockpit. Totally worth it. I would have a hard time playing ED without VR now. I have a Vive with the advanced headstrap. Love it.

 

[VR Morgan Grimes]

Don't write off room scale stuff without trying it, I was of the opinion I'd never use it either but do quite enjoy a game of Beatsaber or RoboRecall

I run a CV1 Rift on a 2500k and a 970GTX, it's very playable and changing the HUD colour makes it very readable (not that I had any problems with the default HUD).

I'm sure somebody would be willing to let you have a play on theirs if you are local to them? Southern UK here is you're close by

 

[znôrt]

Do Vive's sensor work across the board with other HMD's?

well vive adheres to steamvr tracking specifications which is the closest thing there is to a standard afaik. pimax will do so too and is expected to work with vive lighthouses and controllers. i don't really know about other manufacturers but oculus uses a completely different tracking system (where the sensors 'see' the hmd and controllers, as opposed to lighthouses which emit and are seen by them, so no joy mixing those).

 

[Dread Lord]

Thanks Frank. You've raised some questions and possibilities I hadn't considered....or known about (specifically the gaming chair - ED opened a can of worms; first a HOTAS, then VA and leading on to VR....now a chair that moves in relation to the game. This could end up being very expensive if only in terms of my marriage!)

I've got a 250Gb SSD that has ED on it and not much else. I use various external hard drives and clouds to store most of my data so that leaves what is by today's standards a quite small SSD fairly free.

I had assumed that all VR was 6 DoF, which shows my knowledge level, so thats a very interesting point to look into. I'd certainly want to have that level of freedom/movement within any game. I had also assumed (I've been doing a lot of that) my new specs would still struggle to make the most of the Pimax 5K from what I have read about it.

One of the things that interested me about the WMR was the increased resolution and making it easier to read text within the game. I recognize, from what others have said, that the lower general resolution of VR is massively offset by the immersive nature but any extra resolution without a huge impact on performance sounds like a bonus.

Hearing real world experience from players is invaluable so thanks again for taking the time to help and advise.

I am pretty sure the Oculus Quest can not play Elite... it is a standalone hardware that does not connect to your PC it has all the hardware that calculate games already buil din... its super low tech an can not run Elite even if they tried!

 

[zarrazee]

OP. VR "saved" Elite for me. I've played since gamma, hit Elite twice with 2 different CMDRs and had pretty much stopped playing. After trying my mate's Rift, I was blown away. Ordered one about a year ago, and played in VR pretty much every day since. Amazing experience.

However, if you've not yet taken the plunge, Samsung recently announced their HMD Odyssey plus last month. It's a considerable upgrade to the Rift and you can get it for $299 on 18/11/18 (https://www.samsung.com/us/shop/early-black-friday/). I'm in the UK so will be using Big Apple Buddy to get mine.

I'll be posting in this forum when it arrives (will probably be a few weeks)

EDIT - I'm no longer buying the Odyssey+. Comfort and light leaking issues have put me off. Going to stick with the Rift until Pimax 5k+

 

[K126_Mephisto]

I own a Odyssey and I think it's a great device. A recent "Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR on Steam" patch greatly improved the visual so there is very little in the way of screen door effects. I have changed HUD color to green and can easily read any text in the game. I tested a friends Vive (not the Pro, which has the same panels as the Odyssey) and the better resolution of the Odyssey is clearly visible. Head tracking is good with the Odyssey and it is easily setup in windows, steam and in games. It also don't require you to set up any stations.

I think the WMR Acer can be purchased for about 100$ at the moment if you want to start with a little less money.

 

[A D]

OP. VR "saved" Elite for me. I've played since gamma, hit Elite twice with 2 different CMDRs and had pretty much stopped playing. After trying my mate's Rift, I was blown away. Ordered one about a year ago, and played in VR pretty much every day since. Amazing experience.

However, if you've not yet taken the plunge, Samsung recently announced their HMD Odyssey plus last month. It's a considerable upgrade to the Rift and you can get it for $299 on 18/11/18 (https://www.samsung.com/us/shop/early-black-friday/). I'm in the UK so will be using Big Apple Buddy to get mine.

I'll be posting in this forum when it arrives (will probably be a few weeks)

I'm a little bit cautious about the new HMD Odyssey.

Pro's:
- looks good.
- seems to have all the features of the RIFT.
- Nice price. (if buying at the Black Friday sale).
- Samsung is a tech giant (so no start up rubbish here).

Cons:
- The "perceived" resolution of 1,200 (approx.) PPI worries me. That's twice as many pixels on the same screen using "Free Structure Technology". Whatever that is, it is obviously not the "actual" resolution.
- Not sure about the inside out tracking. Already hearing rumours that its not as good as the Rift tracking (which I love).
- No info about build quality. Generally low price = more plastic.

So not trashing the Odyssey, but some more reviews from players using it are needed please

EDIT: Did some quick research. There are some good YouTube reviews. Note that the headset you want is Samsung 2018 HMD Odyssey + (plus). That is the new model and it has the "Free Structure Technology". Previous HMD Odysseys do not. The following is Samsung's explanation of "Free Structure Technology" taken straight from its web site:

¹Samsung Anti-SDE AMOLED Display solves SDE by applying a grid that diffuses light coming from each pixel and replicating the picture to areas around each pixel. This makes the spaces between pixels near impossible to see. In result, your eyes perceive the diffused light as part of the visual content, with a perceived PPI of 1,233PPI, double that of the already high 616PPI of the previous generation Samsung HMD Odyssey+.

²1,233PPI is the perceived resolution and actual resolution is lower.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

I am pretty sure the Oculus Quest can not play Elite... it is a standalone hardware that does not connect to your PC it has all the hardware that calculate games already buil din... its super low tech an can not run Elite even if they tried!

A good friend of mine uses the Oculus Go via SteamVR to stream the game to the headset with very good results. So while i have to admit, that you are right from the point of native support, i am sure, that the Quest will be able to work with Elite, using the same workaround. If cash is a limiting factor, the Quest is definitely a thing to consider, once first tests are abailable.