VR support 'not at launch' for Odyssey

[Captain N]

Frankly I'm not going to miss Facebook in PCVR space. They can take their scummy practises with them into mobile and stay there.

Another good news is Medal of Honor is coming to SteamVR.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Facebook going hybrid / mobile only VR has been on the cards for sometime.
I still think the Oculus PCVR software platform will survive however and the quest 2 seems to make a pretty good entry level pcvr headset.... £299 gets you a LOT in this package. Indeed just 2 short years ago the PCVR quest 2 will give (once 90hz is patched in and hopefully improvements to the compression that the new qualcom chip can do) the pc quest ,2 VR would have been considered cutting edge.

IF I have 1 hope it will be that now Oculus are offically moving away from their own pure PCVR device they open their store up to other PCVR headsets. After all it's not like say the reverb G2 is a threat to quest sales.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Frankly I'm not going to miss Facebook in PCVR space. They can take their scummy practises with them into mobile and stay there.

Another good news is Medal of Honor is coming to SteamVR.

Well you won't miss FB per se, but their oculus incubator program created some of the most brilliant pcvr games which wouldn't have been made without faculus' millions... So it's not a good day for PCVR in a whole. I only hope that the install base widens and the path via Faculus Link becomes viable for SteamVR implementations to work too.

 

[Darkangle]

Exactly. I can't believe some people are still complaining about this. FDev seemed to suggest they will be looking at VR in FP in due course so I think we should be grateful for how much we are actually getting at launch in terms of VR.

I'm getting nothing, I am paying for it

 

[lenna]

...

Ultimately, you are repeating moot and misleading arguments, could be considered trolling in actual fact. You are making the same mistakes alot of reviews do when dealing with mixed mode games - of which there are not that many.

You can not legitimately compare EDO (or similar mixed operation mode games) with dedicated FPS games (and expect them to operate the same) like you and many of the modern idiotic so-called "professional critics" try to (case in point some of the irrational and unreasonable critique of X-Rebirth non-VR due to trying to compare it with certain pure FP mode games - the holes in their reasoning you could drive a planet through). It really is a stupid line of reasoning you have tried to push.

The horizon lock nausea mitigation measure has already been proven to work with EDH thus no need to wait for anything to be proven. What other games do or don't do is pretty moot, except perhaps in the case of X-Rebirth VR which is one of the few games that could potentially be used as a legitimate point of comparison for EDO and VR. However, Egosoft have long had performance concerns with their X-Series games (At least with X3 Reunion and later) that FD have managed to avoid with ED.

This overall topic though is on the most part moot now, FDev are releasing EDO with at least partial VR support. Only time will tell how FD choose to implement VR for FP mode but I hope to god that they do not listen too closely to your line of reasoning and keep the controller options on the most part free for users to configure as they see fit (i.e. avoid foisting the VR wands on to VR participants in FPS mode and preserve seated mode usage).

 

[VR Golgot]

(i.e. avoid foisting the VR wands on to VR participants in FPS mode and preserve seated mode usage).

Never suggested they should do otherwise. Which makes your whole rant look a bit odd really

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Well actually, a lot of the time when others such as myself were suggesting that a less than stellar VR implementation would be acceptable to us, typically saying we'd be happy to forego hand controllers, you said Frontier would become a laughing stock for doing so because other games don't do that...

 

[VR Golgot]

Well actually, a lot of the time when others such as myself were suggesting that a less than stellar VR implementation would be acceptable to us, typically saying we'd be happy to forego hand controllers, you said Frontier would become a laughing stock for doing so because other games don't do that...

Sure. And they will indeed get lots of crap for this implementation. Wait and see

And it is still incredibly unusual in the marketplace, and a very unlikely turn of events.

But they’ve taken a brave decision on that front, primarily to please the current base, it would appear. (The unlikeliness of this event was perhaps helped by the big community support for a certain thread which advocated just such basic compromises )

—

None of that changes that I never said FDev shouldn't support seated or classic controller play. (I’ve always said that the game is already controller agnostic, and with flatscreen controls being the primary design scheme providing VR variants as options is a no-brainer.)

 

[epoch5]

When you get right down to it how many times are you going to walk around the interior of your ship. One stroll and you are done. It isn't ever going to change.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

That depends on how much you can do inside the ship, at this time, I don't see there being much to do inside the ship in Odyssey. But I reckon that being able to walk around the bridge and being able to trigger the transition from pilots seat to SRV/SLF/Walking on surface from a menu at the cockpit door would be kind of neat and add a reasonable amount of immersion for very little development, which is why I'm supporting it.

In much the same way that the VR campaign had a spectrum of desired outcomes from "remaining glued to pilots seat but able to do so under the new skies" to "Elite:Alyx with hand controls and full physics & kinematics", the Ships Interior campaign has a spectrum of "walking on bridge" to "fully modelled and interactive ship interiors with every compartment accessible and every module/panel being interactive with some gameplay associated with them". For VR I would have been relatively easily pleased as I only wanted, actually I still want, "VR headlook on foot" rather than "virtual cinema mode on foot", for ship interiors I'd be happy with "just being able to walk on the bridge". However, after thinking more about the bridge proposition, yes it would be cool, and slightly immersive, but not so much on smaller ships like eagle and courier, but very much so on larger ships like conda and cutter, there are a lot of panels/consoles, I think there is a catch 22 associated with those panels. On one hand if you do not make the panels interactive it might shatter the illusion of walking on the bridge, but if you were to insist they be animated, it would entail a lot of work making them interactive assets and developing the gameplay that underpins that interactivity.

So I can definitely see the damned if you do damned if you don't paradox unfolding if they do anything to ship interiors, and I'd frankly prefer it if the company focussed on developing a more complete VR on Foot implementation, maybe something like VR headlook or VR headlook with limited hands.

 

[Franc Kaos]

When you get right down to it how many times are you going to walk around the interior of your ship. One stroll and you are done. It isn't ever going to change.

For me, loads of times. In X4 there really is little reason for leaving the ship (by standing up in the bridge, walking to the turbolift or descending the ladder onto the station) but I still do it every time because I <gasp> enjoy doing it, walking around the outside of my ship, enjoying the aesthetics of it (I also love the ten minute camera cruise around the Enterprise in Star Trek: The Motion Picture) and in EDVR almost make myself sick twirling outside my ship with various external camera's.

The Bartle Test of Psychology, which breaks up the way people play games into four simple categories. These categories are the Achiever, the Explorer, the Socializer, and the Killer tho' they can mix and match (https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/bartle-s-player-types-for-gamification).

Maybe you would only stroll about it once but maybe you're the type of gamer that doesn't sit his avatar down in Skyrim and simply watch the virtual sun set where other players do. See, I consider PVP utterly pointless, literally did it once and done but I don't think they shouldn't have it in the game because I recognise other players do enjoy it.
Same with ship interiors. Personally I'd be happy with the bridge and a turbo lift, it increases the reality of me flying this ship across this alien world a 1000 light years from home (home being the Sirius star system). So, yea... that's why I want ship interiors.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

 

[kilvenny]

I think being able to stand up from your seat and walk to the exit ladder/ramp or climb physically into the SRV or SLF would add hugely to the experience as it would connect you, the pilot, directly to all alternate forms of transportation. The game play you add on top of that is an interesting choice.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I think that adding the ability to walk around in the cockpit isn't a huge undertaking, and being able to do so to get to the door where pressing the button to open the door presents the CMDR with a menu of three destinations, SLF / SRV / Surface on Foot, isn't a big ask, and one that seemingly quite a few CMDR's would like. For those that dislike the idea, lets stick the "surface on foot" as an extra choice in the crotch menu. The "cockpit door menu" and the "transition to being on foot via crotch menu" options needn't be mutually exclusive, that is to say we needn't have a poll to elect one OR other, we can have both. So if this gets approved, players who wouldn't like the walking around would be able to get on foot via crotch menu AND players who would rather immerse themselves than chance efficiency meta's can walk to cockpit door for exiting the ships in a more authentic manner.

 

[kilvenny]

What kind of interesting gameplay do you have in mind? Fall off the ladder and break your legs?
I have already seen this kind of "immersion" in X4 and I must say that I am not impressed. Nothing that I would like to do regularly.
But how different people are. What seems to be the pinnacle of immersion for some is just needless fluff for others...

The ability to do some sorts of repairs, to ship, SRV or SLF. Ship boarding in larger ships with combat. Docking and on foot transfer to larger ships, such as the generation ships. For larger ships with multi crew on board the ability move to manage guns or a role handling the scanner. Clothing and armoury cupboard so you can change kit or weaponry based on which you have available.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

The ability to do some sorts of repairs, to ship, SRV or SLF. Ship boarding in larger ships with combat. Docking and on foot transfer to larger ships, such as the generation ships. For larger ships with multi crew on board the ability move to manage guns or a role handling the scanner. Clothing and armoury cupboard so you can change kit or weaponry based on which you have available.

All audible goals, but I'd imagine 99% of them are outside the purview of Odyssey and also beyond what we can reasonably coax Frontier to "stretch" to.

 

[kilvenny]

All audible goals, but I'd imagine 99% of them are outside the purview of Odyssey and also beyond what we can reasonably coax Frontier to "stretch" to.

I am not expecting any of this in EDO. For me the ship walking should be per ship payable DLC and then the actual mechanics another payable DLC.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

I am not expecting any of this in EDO. For me the ship walking should be per ship payable DLC and then the actual mechanics another payable DLC.

I'm glad we both agree that EDO's not bringing that sort of ship interior gameplay, but I reckon that we'll get all that and some other ship interior / spacewalk gameplay for all ships, possibly including capital and mega ships as part of the paid update after odyssey.

 

[lenna]

Never suggested they should do otherwise. Which makes your whole rant look a bit odd really

On the contrary, that is EXACTLY the kind of argument you were pushing with your apparent opposition to the VR "head-look" only viewpoint and insistence on "VR bespoke controls" as a notional "requirement" for FP VR despite myself and others pointing out that such VR bespoke "fads" are rarely done well and are far from being a requirement or a at least not a good reason NOT to have VR support for FP mode at release.

This is all however moot though, and we will have to wait and see what FD do for FP mode and VR. They have a starting point which is the SRV implementation of VR with Horizon lock and similar principles could be applied for FP mode.

In the immediately foreseeable term, for whatever reason FD are (seemingly) going down the flat 2D projection in VR route for VR (sans head-look and proper 3D depth of field representation) which does lend to indicate there being FP mode shader/HUD implementation concerns that perhaps do not work well (if at all) on stereoscopic 3D displays (an issue that would not be entirely surprising - FSS mode render issues being a case in point). This is of course just educated guess work on my part, but the evidence does seem to point to this being at least part of the problem (possibly the biggest part). If I were a betting person though, I would not bet either way wrt this being the actual fact or not - the main point is that FD have not been completely unambiguous with what the "actual" problems are AND such issues are not unknown (in terms of industry wide) nor entirely unexpected (in the case of FD). The controller aspect is more likely than not a red herring wrt why FD as an organisation resisted including VR support for Odyssey.

 

[lenna]

I am not expecting any of this in EDO. For me the ship walking should be per ship payable DLC and then the actual mechanics another payable DLC.

Depends on the scope of the "ship walking" aspect. but it is entirely possible that due to having to deal with zero-G circumstances that it could be reserved for a future paid DLC. It is also possible that ship walking (even to a limited degree), while docked/landed could be part of the DLC - at least for cases where zero-G is not being considered a factor.

FD should however keep in mind that a quick return to cockpit chair and/or quick ship departure mechanic is likely to be considered highly desirable (case in point X-Rebirth and X4).