Wanted Status correction

[Kante]

Hello,

when bounty hounting I often have the problem that a clean ship shortly flys between me and my target and gets a short hit and im instantly wanted. That is really anoying, ecspecially when you get scanned while flying into the station to get rid of your bounty and then killed by the station for 200cr.

It would be oke getting wanted if you kill it, but if you only hit it (once) / shortly then there should be only a punishment but not a wanted in my opionien.

 

[03Eleven]

So I am not the only one who thinks getting a WANTED tag is too easy. I have had players do this to me. I will be shooting at a target and a player will fly right at me in my line of fire. I get a wanted status and then they start shooting at me along with the police. I have also had the police ships fly between me and my target. Accidentally shooting anything and getting a wanted status in this game is like blood in the water for a group of sharks. Everyone and their mothers want to shoot you down for 200CR or 400CR.

Glancing blows should get a warning message and maybe even a small fine. I think there should be a limit of 3 warnings in a certain time frame like 1 minute and then you get a wanted status with a bounty more substantial than 200CR. Ramming should also get a fine and a warning.

 

[Yabba Addict]

It's called target fixation, ignoring everything else besides. You need to start watching your scanner

 

[Kante]

@Yabba it is not possible watch a full scanner.
They just fly by in a sec and when u have beam leasers you are instanly wanted.

 

[GerminVermin]

@Yabba it is not possible watch a full scanner.
They just fly by in a sec and when u have beam leasers you are instanly wanted.

Sure it is. Don't be zoomed out on your radar. LOOK at your radar. Be conscious of the concept of Situational Awareness and know who's around you and what direction they're pointed. It's called paying attention. Just because you need more practice at it doesn't mean that it's not possible. I have no problem not shooting other people.

 

[03Eleven]

There is a difference between beating someone to death and bumping into someone who runs into your way.


Situational awareness, negligence, and intent go both ways. If I drive down the road and I see a person crossing the street and I still run them over then it would be my fault. If I drive down the road and someone randomly dashes out into the street before I would rationally have time to react then it would be their fault. Putting all the blame on one party regardless of the actions of another isn't very fair.


Watching the scanner has nothing much to do with it because it is a bad game mechanic. It allows a system where a player can too easily be punished because of bad AI or because of negligence or the malicious intent of another player.

 

[GerminVermin]

There is a difference between beating someone to death and bumping into someone who runs into your way.


Situational awareness, negligence, and intent go both ways. If I drive down the road and I see a person crossing the street and I still run them over then it would be my fault. If I drive down the road and someone randomly dashes out into the street before I would rationally have time to react then it would be their fault. Putting all the blame on one party regardless of the actions of another isn't very fair.

Fair or not, NPCs are dumb. Deal with it. Be smarter than the average bear. We all know this is how it works and, until it's fixed (if ever), then you'll just have to deal with it and evolve your play style to match.

This isn't the real world. It's a video game. Adjust accordingly.

Watching the scanner has nothing much to do with it because it is a bad game mechanic. It allows a system where a player can too easily be punished because of bad AI or because of negligence or the malicious intent of another player.

"I don't like it, so I'm going to call it a bad game mechanic."

 

[dementia]

Sure it is. Don't be zoomed out on your radar. LOOK at your radar. Be conscious of the concept of Situational Awareness and know who's around you and what direction they're pointed. It's called paying attention. Just because you need more practice at it doesn't mean that it's not possible. I have no problem not shooting other people.

I can accept your argument about being a little more aware but sometimes accidents do happen and I think the general consensus is that you shouldn't get the death penalty for a minor infraction. On another post I recommended that they raise the bar to 500 or 1000cr before the cops try to kill you as that would solve this issue quite well I think without affecting the game mechanics in any significant way. Especially as you can pick up a 200cr fine so easily.

 

[GerminVermin]

I can accept your argument about being a little more aware but sometimes accidents do happen and I think the general consensus is that you shouldn't get the death penalty for a minor infraction. On another post I recommended that they raise the bar to 500 or 1000cr before the cops try to kill you as that would solve this issue quite well I think without affecting the game mechanics in any significant way. Especially as you can pick up a 200cr fine so easily.

Meh, it happens in a lot of games. Back when I was playing WoW, using an AOE at the wrong time or the wrong place meant impossibly high level guardian NPCs killed you.

I know accidents happen, but that's why you're allowed to pull in your guns, SC away, and go pay off your fine. It's not a death sentence. It's not an automatic insta-kill. You have a chance to correct the problem and the fine is an insignificant amount of money. I like the system the way it is. It forces me to really focus.

 

[dementia]

Meh, it happens in a lot of games. Back when I was playing WoW, using an AOE at the wrong time or the wrong place meant impossibly high level guardian NPCs killed you.

I know accidents happen, but that's why you're allowed to pull in your guns, SC away, and go pay off your fine. It's not a death sentence. It's not an automatic insta-kill. You have a chance to correct the problem and the fine is an insignificant amount of money. I like the system the way it is. It forces me to really focus.

The fine is not really the issue I have, more it is being attacked (and killed if you let it) for something so minor hence the threshold I advocate. As it is now, it is like getting a speeding ticket in your car for doing 31mph in a 30 zone and then having the armed response police chase you down once you've been ANPR'd at a roundabout or something (UK people will know what I'm talking about) and kill you in your car. Yes you can get away but shouldn't need to!

 

[Ransurias]

It should be a simple fix, really. Mandatory fines for minor friendly fire incidents ought to be easy enough to implement as a replacement for Wanted status. A death sentence for an accidental friendly fire incident is ridiculous. :/

 

[Terrahawk]

Lots of people argue with this suggestion but does anyone actually get any enjoyment out of the instant escalation to Wanted status? That is, they would enjoy it less if there was an initial fine for the first shot or two before it escalated to a bounty? They really like the fact that a stray shot means instant rep loss and running from the police?

I can understand arguing against, say, changes to supercruise, or prices of ships, or the way the market works. But this just feels like something that annoys lots of people and could easily be tweaked to escalate, and it wouldn't really damage the basic premise that there are consequences for friendly fire.

 

[GerminVermin]

They really like the fact that a stray shot means instant rep loss and running from the police?

Yes. I like it.

It introduces a level of concern over where my shots land. I have to be that much more vigilant. I have to pay that much more attention.

I have to be that much better of a pilot.


If I make a mistake (yes, every single action where I incur a bounty is my own mistake) then the consequences of my actions are that I either have to fly that much more evasively to complete my task at hand or I have to escape the situation and find a place to pay off my bounty.

I LOVE the fact that this is hard. I LOVE the fact that there are people crying about how hard it is. Don't like it? Don't suck.

 

[cmdr lowest]

Yes. I like it.

It introduces a level of concern over where my shots land. I have to be that much more vigilant. I have to pay that much more attention.

I have to be that much better of a pilot.


If I make a mistake (yes, every single action where I incur a bounty is my own mistake) then the consequences of my actions are that I either have to fly that much more evasively to complete my task at hand or I have to escape the situation and find a place to pay off my bounty.

I LOVE the fact that this is hard. I LOVE the fact that there are people crying about how hard it is. Don't like it? Don't suck.

Agreed. You just need to be more careful before you pull the trigger and not just hold it down and place the blame on someone getting in the way.

Put it this way, with a wanted status you're making the game more tense and fun too. It's all part of the experience.

 

[Hologram]

Currently the game doesnt seem to want to allow complete NOOBS like me to have fun. it is very exasperating to be wanted by THREE factions for very minor mistakes when trading just 4cu of grain. I dont even know WHY i'm wanted, the messaging system is totally inadequate at telling me what i've done 'wrong'. I don't want to be doing trade runs getting a mere 800 creds profit only to know it gets taken off me for these minor trangressions. i want to learn and enjoy the game, NOT get caught in a - get (measley) profit - lose profit for unknown (to me) reason. i was hoping to play for hours, now I'm afraid to fly becuase of this. And before you non noobs say 'that's the game, like it or leave it', it would be nice to get somewhere in a two hour session without gettingh kicked in the face every other trade run. exasperating. Why isn't there a log of what transgressions you did? I havent even got a chance of avoiding more trouble at this rate. And this is without me yet experiencing the bounty etc systems. I'm not enamored by this game , it feels like being a snail trying to get out of a well, and it's JUST NOT FUN.
SUMMARY: it would be nice to have MORE dialogue ON SCREEN to know is going on, is all.

 

[GerminVermin]

Currently the game doesnt seem to want to allow complete NOOBS like me to have fun.

I'll stop you there.

Everyone is a noob when they start playing.

Everyone.

The difference between you and I is that you are satisfied to complain about being a noob while I make an effort to learn and grow as a pilot.

The reason you are still a noob is because you expect the world around you to change to your tastes instead of expecting yourself to learn and grow to become a better player.

I don't blame you for wanting more hand-holding. There are other games on the market that you can carebear in. I hope you find one you enjoy!

 

[Mossarelli]

The topic of this thread is important but I won't waste my breath trying to convince the players that want to watch us complain about it. One day you will find an irritating bug in ED and will have to work your ass off to get back from a mistake you didn't do.
I was sitting on Lave Radio teamspeak, someone sold their ship and didn't get the money for all of their upgrades. Well, that's just really bad for that player who wasn't aware of the "decal corrupts the savegame"-bug, he just have to be a better player in the future and not do stupid stuff. He lost 20 million credits for something that was outside his reach for what he can affect.

When you are at a resource extraction site to just practice your dog fighting skills, you also want to get some cash in for the ammo you waste, so you start finding people that are wanted, then scan them with the KWS. In the middle of the dogfight, some stupid random NPC decides to join the dogfight with the rank of HARMLESS and two loaned pulse lasers. Using Turret or Gimbaled Beam lasers, my target is flying in a predictable path and everything is going well until this NPC decides to fly straight in front of your ship without warning. "Bam", 100 CR bounty, everyone is your enemy. All the police NPCs completely stop carrying about the guy you are chasing and start shooting at you. In the middle of a dogfight were the enemy have seriously degraded your shields, you are cooked unless you put full power into SYS and ENG and just boost out of there.

You know why this is annoying? Because this is something that is out of our hands, this is something we can't help. As with all other examples laid out in this thread it's the equivalent of running after a purse snatcher, bump into some random idiot that happens to be in the way and then the police start chasing you instead of the actual perpetrator.

There needs to be a threshold for what makes you wanted and a minimum bounty level for when NPCs actually perceive you as a threat. For 100CR, you can't even refuel your ship, is it really worth it for these NPC characters to waste ammo that is worth more than 100CR to take you down for a mistake you couldn't help?

I say 1000 CR bounty is the minimum threshold. First time you attack someone without injuring their hull, you get 100CR. The second time you attack the same ship you get 500CR. The third time you get 1000CR.
If you attack a ship without shields and manage to do 1% damage, then you should get 500CR bounty and then 1000CR the second time.
The time threshold between attacks should be at 3 seconds so that you actually have time to react so you can retract the hardpoints or stop shooting.

Say this: Lasers are pretty much instant hit weapons and takes no time to hit their targets. While the cannons, rail guns and missiles have flight paths. What if you have completely clear sight on an enemy, no friendlies anywhere near him, and then shoot your slow trajectory weapon? While the bullet flies towards the enemy, a random NPC comes in full speed and gets hit by it. Was this still your fault? Does that give everyone in that firefight the privilege of killing you for 100CR?

I was going to create a thread about this but I didn't have to. But reading the replies from all die-hard fans was not surprising either. Just you wait for that day you find yourself in the same spot with something that you have to pay much for that you couldn't help. I'll sit here and just tell you how you deserve it for not being "good" enough.

 

[Loophole]

I also feel that the current "instant wanted" mechanic seems unreasonable - I like my space-sims to retain a sense of 'simulation' about them; an attempt to reflect the behavior of the real world (in this case, a real world with space-flight).

I think also that a solution might not be too difficult; consider these suggestions:

1. Once you start firing on a "wanted" target (or they start firing on you), then the area is considered a "Combat zone". NPC ships should try and fly away from a combat zone as quickly and directly as they can, unless they are active combatants. Obviously a victim being pursued by a pirate won't be able to escape the "combat zone" as the pirate will likely pursue them.

2. Hitting a friendly with accidental fire - in a "combat zone" - should not make you "wanted", or even net you a fine, unless you cause damage. Just hitting shields should do more than raise a "hey, watch it!" on the comms. If you cause damage with your fire, you should be fined - the amount based on the cost of the repairs, plus a premium. If you destroy them - then gaining "wanted" might be appropriate ("Wanted for extreme negligence"

3. Hitting a non-wanted target -outside- of a "combat zone" should net you a fine (for dangerous behavior) if you just hit shields, and maybe "wanted" if you cause any damage or actual destruction.

I think that logic might not be too difficult to implement, and would retain the need to behave with caution in combat while making the response to accidents more nuanced.

 

[Yabba Addict]

(copy pasted from one of my other posts, not gonna type out yet another one for this)
The only bounties I've incurred for ages is preemptive firing on criminals before scanning them. It's all in the scanner. If you switch it over to linear and have it set 2 notches above minimum sensor strength it becomes alot easier to read exactly who is where. The main inner circle is about 1 km so it becomes a doddle avoiding friendly fire. I've setup my x52 so that as soon as I enter combat mode my sensors readjust automatically. (seriously thinking about putting this in my sig)

 

[GerminVermin]

(copy pasted from one of my other posts, not gonna type out yet another one for this)
The only bounties I've incurred for ages is preemptive firing on criminals before scanning them. It's all in the scanner. If you switch it over to linear and have it set 2 notches above minimum sensor strength it becomes alot easier to read exactly who is where. The main inner circle is about 1 km so it becomes a doddle avoiding friendly fire. I've setup my x52 so that as soon as I enter combat mode my sensors readjust automatically. (seriously thinking about putting this in my sig)

This is excellent advice.

I am going to change my convoluted Voice Attack command to match. Thank you!