Warthog Throttle with VKB stick... ARGH!

[ubermick]

Alright, so been using ye olde Saitek X52 Pro since the game's launch, and given their reputation I'm amazed it's lasted as long as it has. But started getting a bit of an upgrade bug - getting a bit tired of accidentally launching heatsinks when trying to chat and the chat decides to unselect itself, trying to remember what keyboard keys were mapped to what... (ah, the joys of old age)

Originally planned on the X56, but have seen quite a few mentions about the stick being made out of cheese and wishful thinking and looked at other options. The Warthog looked rather nice, but didn't like the lack of twist on the stick (yes, I could get pedals, but don't really have room for them nor do I want to have to "relearn" what little amount of flying skills I have). So finally ended up with a compromise - the Warthog throttle, and a VKB Gladiator stick.

While the stick worked without issue, the throttle is giving me fits. I was under the impression that ED had a Warthog profile by default, but when the throttle is plugged in along with the VKB stick, the only options available to me are "Keyboard only" and "Keyboard and mouse." Trying to set them up has been... er, problematic.

I did try the VKB stick and the X52 throttle - and amazingly, ED recognized that an X52 was attached, but also assumed I was using the X52 stick (given the stick connects to the throttle rather than being its own device, understandable) but was fairly straightforward to go and deal with changing that. (although the clutch button on the X52 no longer works, which I used as boost, but...)

Anybody got any tips, tricks, or pointers on getting the Warthog throttle to work tho? Be nice to have not paid $200 for a rather hefty paperweight...

 

[Vahnkiljoy]

Not sure why you took those supposed reviews about the x56 stick being 'made out of cheese' whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean, the x55/x56 sticks are excellent, maybe those reviewers should use those sticks how they are made to be used, I don't get the 'made out of cheese' what the hell can that even mean...

 

[ubermick]

Er, its a euphemism for them being not very sturdy. A lot of reviews of the X56 note its lack of durability and quality control. I apologise if you're staunchly anti-cheese?

 

[Hamchuck]

Er, its a euphemism for them being not very sturdy. A lot of reviews of the X56 note its lack of durability and quality control. I apologise if you're staunchly anti-cheese?

He's lactose intolerant.

 

[DaveB]

All the X-series sticks have had an extended period of being.. well.. crap. Fortunately that seems to be over.

The original Saitek brand was great. They had occasional quality control issues but for the most part they just lasted. Then Madcatz took over and build quality just tanked. They cut corners on the build, their materials were poorer quality. For all that I was a real Saitek fan before the buyout, I wouldn't have touched a Madcatz-built unit with a bargepole. I fully expected the brand to die.

Then Logitech took over the product line.

Logitech just don't sell crap. They just don't. So long as there's been at least one product rev since Logitech took over you can safely disregard the well-justified dreadful reviews from the Madcatz era.

For the X56 in particular, if the graphics on the stick and throttle are grey, not blue, you've got a unit built to Logitech specs and you should be fine.

 

[Eli Jack]

Are you saying that when you select 'Throttle Axis' with your Warthog throttle plugged in it won't register any movement? I don't know of any reason for that. I've used an x56 throttle with a Virpil Warbrd stick, the x56 throttle with a Logitech 3d Pro and I'm currently using a CH Pro throttle with the 3d Pro stick. I haven't had a problem with the game recognising any combination.

What happens when you select 'Flight Throttle' > 'Throttle Axis' and click on the box? Do you not get the 'Move Axis For... Throttle Axis' dialogue box? And if you move the throttle does it not register, giving you a Joy Z-Axis confirmation? Are there any lights on the throttle to show that it's receiving power? If not is there any other way to tell? I've not had a Warthog throttle so don't know this.

My throttle/stick combinations are always shown as 'Custom' in the drop down box at the top of the screen and I've never had a problem with them being recognised in-game.

Screenshots might be a help with this.

 

[Eli Jack]

All the X-series sticks have had an extended period of being.. well.. crap. Fortunately that seems to be over.

The original Saitek brand was great. They had occasional quality control issues but for the most part they just lasted. Then Madcatz took over and build quality just tanked. They cut corners on the build, their materials were poorer quality. For all that I was a real Saitek fan before the buyout, I wouldn't have touched a Madcatz-built unit with a bargepole. I fully expected the brand to die.

Then Logitech took over the product line.

Logitech just don't sell crap. They just don't. So long as there's been at least one product rev since Logitech took over you can safely disregard the well-justified dreadful reviews from the Madcatz era.

For the X56 in particular, if the graphics on the stick and throttle are grey, not blue, you've got a unit built to Logitech specs and you should be fine.

Nah, they most certainly do. Older stuff can be good, my 3d Pro joystick is 22 years old and I'm currently using it in ED although it has to be re-calibrated every day. Other than that it works fine. The rebranded Saitek stuff I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

I had an eight week email dialogue with their 'customer service' over x56 issues which never got sorted and which finally resulted in me telling them to go forth and multiply. Good luck to anyone trying to make headway with that dept. If you finally get fed up with their attitude of going out of their way to be as obnoxious, unhelpful and arrogant as they possibly can and tell them just how crap their 'service' is they'll state that they will mark your case as 'Resolved'.

Yeah, wonderful company.

 

[TieKnee]

I upgraded from x52 pro to the (grey) x56 ... its been a year now and it still works great... no issues at all.

 

[Tarkus Venius]

I've had two X56 sticks in two years, the first one I replaced because some of the buttons became intermittently unresponsive.

The second stick I replaced because I got tired of the 'slop' around the center of the stick. It's a design thing. There's a two millimeter bit of 'play' around the center axis that you have to deadzone, and that makes gameplay like lining up rail guns or interdicting someone terrible when you cross the 'zero tension wobble'

I went with a VKB, I was thoroughly done with Logitech.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

The grey X56 is fine.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Are you running off a hub?

I ended up getting a powered 8 port USB hub - the external powersupply can help if you're running our of juice on that USB bus.

Uh this is if your stick is not being recognised.
You should be able to select the function click change and wiggle the axis to assign it.

Unlikely that there will be a default layout.

 

[zaikoji]

I’d love to know which X52 pro I have because it’s performed flawlessly for 6 years.
Threads like this give me the fear.

 

[Sylow]

Logitech just don't sell crap. They just don't. So long as there's been at least one product rev since Logitech took over you can safely disregard the well-justified dreadful reviews from the Madcatz era.

For the X56 in particular, if the graphics on the stick and throttle are grey, not blue, you've got a unit built to Logitech specs and you should be fine.

I unfortunately can't fully confirm that. I mean yes, my Logitech build X-56 survived much longer than any of my Saitek/Madcatz built ones. Those i was able to replace on warranty whenever it broke down. (Thanks to how Amazon handles things, i always had it ordered about a year ago in my shopping history and was able to return it to get a replacement. )

My Logitech built X-56 now survived for three years and four months, so about three times as long as the Saitek/Madcatz builds. But just the last weekend a button went dead. When opening it up, one wire was broken just where it was soldered to the switch. (So luckily i was able to solder it and be fine again. ) Logitech may indeed have improved on some of the most failure prone parts of the device, but the wring is still done in the Saitek way. (At least in the stick, i didn't open up the throttle. )

So the same old issues of wires wearing down and breaking are unfortunately still to be expected, as i just recently had to find out. Time will tell if this now was a single event or if my device will follow the all so common pattern that when the first wire fails, others will also do so in the next months.

 

[DaveB]

I unfortunately can't fully confirm that. I mean yes, my Logitech build X-56 survived much longer than any of my Saitek/Madcatz built ones. Those i was able to replace on warranty whenever it broke down. (Thanks to how Amazon handles things, i always had it ordered about a year ago in my shopping history and was able to return it to get a replacement. )

My Logitech built X-56 now survived for three years and four months, so about three times as long as the Saitek/Madcatz builds. But just the last weekend a button went dead. When opening it up, one wire was broken just where it was soldered to the switch. (So luckily i was able to solder it and be fine again. ) Logitech may indeed have improved on some of the most failure prone parts of the device, but the wring is still done in the Saitek way. (At least in the stick, i didn't open up the throttle. )

So the same old issues of wires wearing down and breaking are unfortunately still to be expected, as i just recently had to find out. Time will tell if this now was a single event or if my device will follow the all so common pattern that when the first wire fails, others will also do so in the next months.

I'd be interested to hear your ongoing experience with it -as I've recently transitioned to a logitech-built X56 after my pre-madcatz X52 was just too far gone after over a decade of fault-free service to remain as my primary controller - to bring it back into the game I'd have to replace the cable sockets on both units and some of the controls were beginning to show their age too requiring more forceful activation than they should. My old X35 is even older (its the gameport/kbCable version, there wasn't a USB version when I bought it) and remains absolutely solid connected to a retro system.

I haven't opened up my new X56 yet, don't intend to unless/until there's a need but if it's the old issue of insufficient free play in the wiring at flexion points that's an easy fix for any electronics with moving parts and hardly restricted to HOTAS rigs (tbh, given its length of service I am surprised to have NOT had that problem on my X52 just from work-hardening in the solid wiring even if the wiring paths were not too short for the range of movement)

ETA: just noticed you saying the wire became detached from the switch - There should be no flexing of wiring to the switches in the stick at all, given the stick where all the switches are is disconnectable from the base unit with the gimbal and has no direct wiring to flexing parts. I think you just got unlucky with a brittle joint.

 

[ubermick]

One thing to note about the X56 is that it absolutely positively HAS to be plugged directly into the PC or a powered USB hub. I ended up getting an X56 throttle (blue one too, yeah I know...) and the sheer amount of ghosting I've experienced (ship randomly deciding to engage silent running, opening the galaxy map, deciding to deploy the landing gear or cargo scoop, or fire thrusters) is ridiculous. Until I unplugged it from the hub I was using the X52 on and put it straight into the PC.

It is, by all accounts, a power thirsty beast.

 

[Sylow]

I'd be interested to hear your ongoing experience with

Don't worry. It's not like i could hold back when the thing starts to annoy me, anyway.

I haven't opened up my new X56 yet, don't intend to unless/until there's a need but if it's the old issue of insufficient free play in the wiring at flexion points that's an easy fix for any electronics with moving parts and hardly restricted to HOTAS rigs (tbh, given its length of service I am surprised to have NOT had that problem on my X52 just from work-hardening in the solid wiring even if the wiring paths were not too short for the range of movement)

Unfortunately that was not the problem. The wire was long enough so i was able to remove a few millimeters of isolation and solder it again. It still can move freely. Which by itself might rather be the problem. The pinkie button (which was the broken one) is connected to the circuit board on the top of the handle with a pair of rather loosely dangling wires. As it's inside the grip, the only possible motion on the wires is induced by inertia and gravitation. (So i guess releasing the stick and let the centering spring take over puts most of of the stress on it. )

On an afterthought, it would perhaps mave made sense to actually glue the wires to the inside of the stick when i had it open. This would prevent them from moving any more. Alas, i guess i will do that if the need to open it up arises again.

 

[DaveB]

On an afterthought, it would perhaps mave made sense to actually glue the wires to the inside of the stick when i had it open. This would prevent them from moving any more. Alas, i guess i will do that if the need to open it up arises again.

Second most vital "thermal tool" in electronics after the soldering iron -the hotglue gun.

 

[DaveB]

One thing to note about the X56 is that it absolutely positively HAS to be plugged directly into the PC or a powered USB hub. I ended up getting an X56 throttle (blue one too, yeah I know...) and the sheer amount of ghosting I've experienced (ship randomly deciding to engage silent running, opening the galaxy map, deciding to deploy the landing gear or cargo scoop, or fire thrusters) is ridiculous. Until I unplugged it from the hub I was using the X52 on and put it straight into the PC.

It is, by all accounts, a power thirsty beast.

It sure is - but a 10-port powered USB3 hub with enough juice to fast-charge on all ports can be had for under 40quid with a little google-fu - and your other USB devices will probably thank you for it too!

 

[Bravo17]

I suggest that you use the Thrustmaster TARGET software and assign keypresses to the switches on the throttle. That will allow you to use the switches to control actions that use the same keypress to activate as deactivate eg cargo scoop, hardpoints etc, which is what I found that I wanted most of them for. With the software you can also set a switch that will allow you to reset the switches when they inevtitably get out-of-sync with the actual state of the scoop etc in-game.

Also note that just because ED doesn't show you a "Warthog Throttle" profile doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't see the throttle, just that there isn't a default profile for it.

 

[CMDR Harada]

Odd. I use the VKB Gladiator/Kosmosima and the Thrustmaster throttle.. no issues. Took a bit to map it all out, but no issues with both devices being seen. I do use a powered USB hub, so maybe that was why.

Try plugging directly into the PC and see if that fixes it. If it does, get a powered hub.