Well that sucked the wind out of my sails

Riverside

Riverside
I had a big day today, I flipped a system to my favoured (NPC) faction. ED Bucket List Box ticked, it was months of work and I'm pretty pleased with myself.

Or I was, until I met a Pledged player.

No, no PvP was involved, they just came to investigate the change & happened to meet me, we had a chat in the dock.

I'd been away for quite a while & my home system had gone to pot, the factions were all over the place and the long standing Fed aligned corporate controlling faction (exploited on the fringes of Hudson space) had been usurped by a neighbouring independent Feudal faction. I assumed this was just down to skimmer missions & other min/maxing stuff, and I spent the last 3 months going through the motions to tidy up the system and put my preferred faction back in charge.

But apparently putting a Fed aligned faction in control of a system in Hudson space is a problem, because it's more efficient to fortify Feudal factions than one that is aligned to the same superpower as the controlling (or exploiting in this case) power.

This doesn't seem right.

Apparently my personal goals are at odds with the team goals in a way that I had not expected - if anything I figured any Hudson pledged players would be chuffed one of 'their' systems was back under Fed/Corporate control.

Why would any Power Play activity be affected by regular player BGS transitions like this? Why does one type of faction need to be more optimal than another?

And if there must be a preference, why does Hudson prefer a Feudal faction to a Corporate one?

I'd be interested to read the reasoning behind this if it can be justified, but if it's 'just one of those things' then I think it should be changed.



Mostly I think I'm just not keen on the idea that I can no longer ignore Power Play. After 4,700 hours over 3.5 years it's finally forced itself on me for more than something for PvPers to fight over.


As a footnote I should add that the chap was very polite & hoped a compromise could be reached. I hope so too, because it's one thing to go up against another player influenced faction, but quite another for my work in a quiet area of the bubble to have been noticed and now be at odds with an entire Power's worth of mission runners :(
 

Adept Geraden

Adept Geraden
Try being a player group, juggling 20 odd systems at the beck and call of some upstart Powerpants wanna-be figurehead.

Fdev are gonna fix it. Come Xmas.

Been holding my breath waiting for almost 2 years. Starting to turn blue.
 

Andovar

Andovar
Spacecat said:
This (and other reasons) is why I don't bother with any of this.
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Same here.
There's just too much hidden under the covers. I know some people like this, and figuring out all the nuiance and hidden details. But it's just not the game I want to play.
Funny thing is, I know I'm still playing the BGS when i play. I just don't know how I'm impacting it or who specifically I'm affecting (if anyone). ...and truthfully, I don't care.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
The new changes mooted by Sandro would fix that if I understand them correctly- if you have a Federal Superpower aligned faction it will tie into Powerplay and all is good.

Currently, due to a design oversight Hudson and Aislings favourite factions are illogical and go against themselves.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Rubbernuke said:
The new changes mooted by Sandro would fix that if I understand them correctly- if you have a Federal Superpower aligned faction it will tie into Powerplay and all is good.

Currently, due to a design oversight Hudson and Aislings favourite factions are illogical and go against themselves.
Click to expand...

It one of the reasons why I would like to see aligned factions. So factions in a system maybe aligned to certain powers, a power having this factions in power would gain benefits.

This way, powerplay players who need to do BGS work anyway have something to fight for with the BGS to get money for rebuya.

If powerplay goes open only then the roleplayers can still help a power via the BGS, and you get more integration with the two features.
 

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Max Factor said:
It one of the reasons why I would like to see aligned factions. So factions in a system maybe aligned to certain powers, a power having this factions in power would gain benefits.

This way, powerplay players who need to do BGS work anyway have something to fight for with the BGS to get money for rebuya.

If powerplay goes open only then the roleplayers can still help a power via the BGS, and you get more integration with the two features.
Click to expand...

The changes in Proposal #1 would limit BGS interaction to the control system only, so it would cut out a lot of aggro if your PMF is an exploited system.

Power aligned factions has been suggested a lot too, which would make life even easier. However I think the reason why this won't happen is that PMFs are a lot of work to introduce, are often placed in a bubble that is incompatible with the Power and need gov changing. If a PMF is locked to a Power there is a chance that the PMF might want to change its mind as well.
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
Riverside said:
I had a big day today, I flipped a system to my favoured (NPC) faction. ED Bucket List Box ticked, it was months of work and I'm pretty pleased with myself.

Or I was, until I met a Pledged player.

No, no PvP was involved, they just came to investigate the change & happened to meet me, we had a chat in the dock.

I'd been away for quite a while & my home system had gone to pot, the factions were all over the place and the long standing Fed aligned corporate controlling faction (exploited on the fringes of Hudson space) had been usurped by a neighbouring independent Feudal faction. I assumed this was just down to skimmer missions & other min/maxing stuff, and I spent the last 3 months going through the motions to tidy up the system and put my preferred faction back in charge.

But apparently putting a Fed aligned faction in control of a system in Hudson space is a problem, because it's more efficient to fortify Feudal factions than one that is aligned to the same superpower as the controlling (or exploiting in this case) power.

This doesn't seem right.

Apparently my personal goals are at odds with the team goals in a way that I had not expected - if anything I figured any Hudson pledged players would be chuffed one of 'their' systems was back under Fed/Corporate control.

Why would any Power Play activity be affected by regular player BGS transitions like this? Why does one type of faction need to be more optimal than another?
Click to expand...

Because that's the way Power Play was designed in the first place. It wasn't designed as a PvP fragfest, but as multiple logistical competitions, and one of those competitions is BGS manipulation. It also represents a fair bit of world building. The various Powers represent the part of the character of the Superpowers, so each tends to reflect one or more aspects of it.

IMO, seeing the Ethos of Hudson and Winters really helped solidify my impression that the Federation is rotten at its core. But then again, there isn't a single Power who favors democratic governments. Its a good thing that, as members of the of the three major Superpowers (sorry Alliance) we're part of the hyperclass of the Elite universe. Even a lowly Sidewinder pilot has access to more wealth than 99.9% of the population of the galaxy.

Riverside said:
And if there must be a preference, why does Hudson prefer a Feudal faction to a Corporate one?
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Because Hudson's personality is a rather heavy handed "do as I say, or there will be consequences" approach to influencing people, and the Feudal and Patronage governments respond best to that. They operate on the idea that "it is natural and right that the people are the servants to their masters," after all. Winters, on the other hand, tends to bribe people to get them to do what they want.

One of the problems Federation Power Players have is that many players perceive the Federation as the Democratic "good guy" to the Empire's "bad guy," and those interested in manipulating the BGS tend to put Democratic or Corporate factions into power. This effectively doubles the fortification costs of both Winters and Hudson, since neither of those Powers represent either of those ideals.

Riverside said:
I'd be interested to read the reasoning behind this if it can be justified, but if it's 'just one of those things' then I think it should be changed.

Mostly I think I'm just not keen on the idea that I can no longer ignore Power Play. After 4,700 hours over 3.5 years it's finally forced itself on me for more than something for PvPers to fight over.

As a footnote I should add that the chap was very polite & hoped a compromise could be reached. I hope so too, because it's one thing to go up against another player influenced faction, but quite another for my work in a quiet area of the bubble to have been noticed and now be at odds with an entire Power's worth of mission runners :(
Click to expand...

I've been manipulating the BGS for fun and profit, sometimes on behalf of my chosen Power, sometimes to support the brave freedom fighters who resist the Evil Galactic Federation, and sometimes for my own amusement, since Alpha... though I haven't put in nearly as many hours as you have. The BGS aspects of Powerplay are often ignored (if not outright denigrated) by the more PvP oriented players, despite the fact that having too many unfavorable governments with a Control system's sphere of influence could triple the fortification costs, and thus denying a Power the necessary CCs to expand, which is allegedly where PP PvP really shines.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Rubbernuke said:
The changes in Proposal #1 would limit BGS interaction to the control system only, so it would cut out a lot of aggro if your PMF is an exploited system.

Power aligned factions has been suggested a lot too, which would make life even easier. However I think the reason why this won't happen is that PMFs are a lot of work to introduce, are often placed in a bubble that is incompatible with the Power and need gov changing. If a PMF is locked to a Power there is a chance that the PMF might want to change its mind as well.
Click to expand...

It's one of the reasons why I am not that fond of player introduced factions. They should of just chosen on of the existing 1000s to choose from and then there would be no issues.

Also you don't get rubbish names that don't make sense like there is in Lugh called German Wargaming or something like that. If there is to be a name put in, keep it realistic and not like that.
 

Justinian Octavius

Justinian Octavius
Rubbernuke said:
The new changes mooted by Sandro would fix that if I understand them correctly- if you have a Federal Superpower aligned faction it will tie into Powerplay and all is good..
Click to expand...

Correct. The Superpower ethos override would mean that any Controlling Federal Minor Faction in a Control System would contribute to Hudson's Fortification Trigger reduction. Thus, hopefully, the Powerplay proposals will be implemented to correct the logical anomalies in the current Powers' ethos setup.

CMDR Justinian Octavius
 

Globusdiablo

Globusdiablo
Riverside said:
I had a big day today, I flipped a system to my favoured (NPC) faction. ED Bucket List Box ticked, it was months of work and I'm pretty pleased with myself.

Or I was, until I met a Pledged player.

No, no PvP was involved, they just came to investigate the change & happened to meet me, we had a chat in the dock.

I'd been away for quite a while & my home system had gone to pot, the factions were all over the place and the long standing Fed aligned corporate controlling faction (exploited on the fringes of Hudson space) had been usurped by a neighbouring independent Feudal faction. I assumed this was just down to skimmer missions & other min/maxing stuff, and I spent the last 3 months going through the motions to tidy up the system and put my preferred faction back in charge.

But apparently putting a Fed aligned faction in control of a system in Hudson space is a problem, because it's more efficient to fortify Feudal factions than one that is aligned to the same superpower as the controlling (or exploiting in this case) power.

This doesn't seem right.

Apparently my personal goals are at odds with the team goals in a way that I had not expected - if anything I figured any Hudson pledged players would be chuffed one of 'their' systems was back under Fed/Corporate control.

Why would any Power Play activity be affected by regular player BGS transitions like this? Why does one type of faction need to be more optimal than another?

And if there must be a preference, why does Hudson prefer a Feudal faction to a Corporate one?

I'd be interested to read the reasoning behind this if it can be justified, but if it's 'just one of those things' then I think it should be changed.



Mostly I think I'm just not keen on the idea that I can no longer ignore Power Play. After 4,700 hours over 3.5 years it's finally forced itself on me for more than something for PvPers to fight over.


As a footnote I should add that the chap was very polite & hoped a compromise could be reached. I hope so too, because it's one thing to go up against another player influenced faction, but quite another for my work in a quiet area of the bubble to have been noticed and now be at odds with an entire Power's worth of mission runners :(
Click to expand...

Plight. :(
 

Stealthie

Stealthie
This thread is a terrific example of why I have little interest in BGS-related stuff.

I feel like it's something I could get interested in (and I'm incredibly tenacious about stuff once I get into it) but it's all just so incredibly inscrutable. [sad]
 

m0rl0ck

M
Stealthie said:
This thread is a terrific example of why I have little interest in BGS-related stuff.

I feel like it's something I could get interested in (and I'm incredibly tenacious about stuff once I get into it) but it's all just so incredibly inscrutable. [sad]
Click to expand...

They design it that way because it makes them feel clever.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Darkfyre99 said:
IMO, seeing the Ethos of Hudson and Winters really helped solidify my impression that the Federation is rotten at its core.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies everyone, in particular Darkfyre99 for a really helpful explanation & lore justification. It seems I'm raging against The Man not the machine, which helps me to understand the undesirable situation I find myself in.

I don't want to frustrate a bunch of other players by my actions, this conflict of interest has come about from my ignorance & assumptions about a part of the game I thought I could ignore, but really I've found a previously hidden depth to the game where actions have consequences.

I suppose I have a couple of options:

Find a new home system away from the Power Play arena, or
Pledge to Hudson so I can do some or all of the fortification work to help justify my changes.

What do you think I should do? Do I have any other options that won't frustrate other players?
 
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