What can the devs do to improve exploration?

[Schattenbogen]

- Be able to sell data without docking
- actually, be able to do any electronic transactions without docking
Why, oh why, in an age a thousand years from now, should you need to physically dock your ship to transmit or receive data? Sure, loading cargo, reloading weapons, taking on fuel, they all need to be docked, but looking up the bulletin boards or selling exploration data would be done remotely even today. Has our technology got worse with FTL space travel?

You want more risk and more excitation but you want to remove the only (and best) source of excitation ?

So about exploration :

>> A scan timer, something to look at while waiting.
>> A system map where I can plan the route I will use to scan the system.
>> Being able to have the navigation windows open in full front, so I can use it AND see what happen in space.
>> Icon which identify the type (star, planets, asteroids fields).
>> Being able to have different modes in system navigation panel (remove asteroids by example).
>> Being able to put commentaries and mark on systems in my galaxy panel.

 

[mossfoot]

I love the ideas about more risk.
I'd like to see the value of certain things be more logical. Neutron stars don't seem like they ought to be valuable. First, if you find one, you've probably found 10,000,000 of them, so they aren't rare. Also, what is anyone going to do with that data besides list it on a chart and say, yep, don't fly into that.

I have a theory about that - Black Holes shouldn't be worth so much, either. We know where they are so they aren't posing a navigational threat, so why pay so much?

What if scientists are working on a way to create shortcuts in the galaxy via black holes? A special one-shot drive that you use, go into one black hole, come out another of your choosing. That might be why they want so much data on as many as possible. And neutron stars are collapsed stars that didn't have quite enough matter to become black holes, so their data would also be valuable (just not as valuable as the black holes).

These shortcuts could later on in the game's life cycle, allow for getting to other parts of the galaxy without spending weeks in transit (important later on when those distant permit only areas open up). But since black holes aren't everywhere they aren't exactly an instant-A to instant-B shortcut either. You still have to get TO the black hole and then to your destination from the black hole on the other side.

 

[Cliff Dobbs]

You want more risk and more excitation but you want to remove the only (and best) source of excitation?

Really? You find docking that exciting? You've spent too long in the black my friend.

C

 

[D8ncer]

I would like a date stamp on any discoveries as well as the finders name. Possibly a serial number made up of the time and date. Such as 19.38 on the 28/4/15 would be discovered by and then (193828415).
.
Always wondered when the item was discovered and would be cool to know that somebody was there yesterday or a week ago.
.
Would also like to see further people who scan the same object so you could have 1st, 2nd, 3rd names to an object.

 

[Nilt]

- In sys view, planets should not show type before detailed scan
This really bugs me. If you've not scanned a planet, how do you know if it's a water world, or high metal content. Before doing a detailed surface scan, they should all be represented by a generic planet icon.

That one's simple. Optically, there's nothing preventing us from seeing the apparent color of the planet. Think about it, the icy rocks that show white in a yellow star's system show pink in a red star's system. We're seeing the color of the planet, that's all. No reason at all we shouldn't be able to do that. Heck, we can do that now with not much more than handheld telescopes from within Earth's atmosphere! Why shouldn't we be able to do it in a thousand years in a rather expensive space faring vessel?

 

[Titler]

If they increase the danger of exploration, they need to give us some way to lesson the anguish that would come from losing thousands of systems of data all at once. I'd suggest a simple "Return To Civilization Drone", which carries your progress to that date, but has limited charges like a Shield Cell, and also relatively expensive to reload, let's say it's a mini Sidewinder in each charge, that takes a set time to actually travel back depending on the distance you are away... You can set which Faction it heads for, and when it gets there you get credit...

As for what else they could honestly add, I'd like to see some way to leave marker buoys with messages from the CMDR who left them for who follows after them... Maybe even a holographic representation of the Ship and Skin I was in when I did, floating forever in the void; again, very very expensive to not leave spam everywhere, but then that's what humans tend to do, leave wrecks and rubbish behind, so it wouldn't be unrealistic either if they did. I'd rather for gameplay reasons it was limited though!

I want to see some way to see what Data I currently have aboard, and when I get back, an easy way to see what systems I have discovered. Where was my first Neutron Star? My first Black Hole? The most rewarding system I've found to date? Personal favourites? Let me see where I've been!

Temporary base camps... you can buy a "Tanker" that attaches to you ship, which allows you to return and do minor repairs, but drops your jump range whilst carried and again, limited charges. Maybe even store your data so far there?

More science things; why not be able to carry jettisonable and re-scoopable experiments, which give different results if in different temperature/gravity/spectral/atmospheric areas. Land in system, see interesting star, leave an experiment, on the way back again pick it up and hand it in for further Explorer credit and cold hard cash.

We'd all like aliens, but how about scooping atmosphere from planets as well as fuel for ships, for further scientific research?

I'm trying to stay within the realms of the practical and non-lore breaking here... but why not go all the way at the end; give us Bovo Sapiens! Yes, a whole cow civilization somewhere! Add them add them add them!

 

[puca]

Please don't dumb down exploration.

 

[Archvillain]

I'd like to see some way to leave marker buoys with messages from the CMDR who left them for who follows after them...

Marker-bouys would also allow the proper demarcation of race courses for the elite racers groups, which are kind of stymied by being unable to mark tracks through things like asteroid rings.

 

[Fen Harel]

Exploring should be more dangerous, though. Seriously.

I do kind of miss the days when there all those NPCs in the badlands. Coming back from an exploration trip then took some serious planning - I had to make sure nothing in real life was going to bug me for the hour or so I needed to fly through there. It was very tense, and very exhilarating to get back. One of my favorite memories from my second or third trip was being interdicted just seconds before dropping out of SC at my Home Station. The chance of being blown up was always present in those few hundred ly around the bubble.

Having said that, I would probably have a different view had I actually been blown up.

 

[X2Eliah]

I'd propose a very simple, UI-only change that would alleviate a lot of the boredom.

You know how when you're scanning a planet/star/whatever, all you get is the "Scanning. Scanning." in lower left, and "Scan Complete. (Additional scan data added)" on top right?

Well.

What if, upon completion, the top right panel, or the top left, printed out (on the screen, I mean) the Stellar description of the scanned body - same text as appears on the system map after scan. That might make it easier to read whilst supercruising to the next object, and save a lot of lingering in system map to see what you've uncovered (and also would give more 'flair' or variety to your scans).

 

[Surly_Badger]

If they increase the danger of exploration, they need to give us some way to lesson the anguish that would come from losing thousands of systems of data all at once.

Being a better pilot'd do it.

- - - Updated - - -

One other thing: FSD jumps appear remarkably reliable. How many things that humans build work so predictably and perfectly, even after being overheated, slammed into station hangars, and pewpewpew'd?? If there was a nonzero chance that any jump (scaled with distance) would send you to the wrong place, that'd be exciting. Especially if "the wrong place" meant a bit too close to a star or whatever.

 

[Hellhawk666]

This is a great thread - good suggestions all round, commanders. I hope the devs drop by and take a look as I'm sure there are some ideas that could fit into the game development plan.

Another thing that just occurred to me - along with a log system, I long to be able to see exactly where I've been. A simple toggle in the galmap that highlights just the systems I have visited would be really nice.

 

[mossfoot]

I'd propose a very simple, UI-only change that would alleviate a lot of the boredom.

You know how when you're scanning a planet/star/whatever, all you get is the "Scanning. Scanning." in lower left, and "Scan Complete. (Additional scan data added)" on top right?

Well.

What if, upon completion, the top right panel, or the top left, printed out (on the screen, I mean) the Stellar description of the scanned body - same text as appears on the system map after scan. That might make it easier to read whilst supercruising to the next object, and save a lot of lingering in system map to see what you've uncovered (and also would give more 'flair' or variety to your scans).

Yeah, I proposed something similar earlier - but as opposed to on completion, it could be trickled in during the scan period, so you could take in the information as it arrives instead of all at once.

 

[Phyl]

I would like some sort of ability for an in-game Log system that:

• automatically recorded where I have been and what I have scanned (some of it is already there in verbose logging);
• gave me the Galactic Co-ordinates of the main stars of the systems I visit – it matters to me;
• captured some of the more valuable information held about scanned stars/planets as found on the System Map screens ;
• that let me take and caption/add notes to a picture;
• that actually let me take a decent picture without having to exit SC, slow down, take a picture (in-High-Res), restart the FSD and re-enter SC (I know, this one is selfish!);
• that let me write some text – a journal of where I have been; and
• that gave me statistics of my journey – LY travelled, systems visited, stars/planets scanned, categories of star/planet explored, time since last docking, etc (there are many more).

This might have to be a separate purchase – a Game Extra purchased through the Store– the sale price of which could fund its development? Right now, I would pay.

I would really love that. For me I think it should be about building the explorer community in-game. I picture for those who have bought the expansion:

- The ability to see other commanders (who opt to allow it) in your local area without having to friend them to promote interaction (plan meetups and form wings) and to build friendships.
- The ability to automatically track your routes, and to add annotations to systems or journeys with notes, pictures etc
- The ability to publish your annotations when selling your data so the galaxy and system map is tagged with them for others to see
- A saved history of your trips that you can view them graphically with statistics.
- A way of marking interesting features or systems you come across and want to flag for later visit
- A way to construct your own routes jump by jump or add way-points
- A way of browsing all the data you have sold, with system map style info of details of the bodies and pictures
- Saving plotted routes between sessions
- Massive (but lightweight) hardpoint mounted lighting rigs and speakers, just for the fun of blaring horrendously loud techno into the void - If anything will draw the Tharg's in I'm sure that'll do it!

 

[Schattenbogen]

Really? You find docking that exciting? You've spent too long in the black my friend.

You know it's not about docking but about being able to sell you discoveries while being in the black.

 

[Metalstardust]

For me the number one improvement is navigation from the system map. I believe that is coming in 1.3?

 

[Whiterose]

For me the number one improvement is navigation from the system map. I believe that is coming in 1.3?

Yes, or something like that....

 

[Titler]

Being a better pilot'd do it.

- - - Updated - - -

One other thing: FSD jumps appear remarkably reliable. How many things that humans build work so predictably and perfectly, even after being overheated, slammed into station hangars, and pewpewpew'd?? If there was a nonzero chance that any jump (scaled with distance) would send you to the wrong place, that'd be exciting. Especially if "the wrong place" meant a bit too close to a star or whatever.

*yawns*

I'm already pretty close to as good as exploration as it's possible to be; it's not difficult, just a repetitive grind at present. Also one that doesn't mean anything in the real world. Who now knows, or even cares, what ranks I spent hours getting in Elite 1 and 2 in the 80s and 90s? Being "Teh Hardcorez" in a game impresses no one.

And just because you prefer artificially inflated difficulty instead of actual gameplay mechanics, it doesn't change the fact that this kind of gaming masochism is a tiny, if exceptionally vocal minority. The market has long since spoken on this; EvE Online is a small self referential slice of the MMO market. And Dark Souls too for that matter is just one amongst hundreds and thousands of AAA products with an unreasonably dedicated fanbase, the Furry Fandom of gameplay debates, who cram their own fetishes into everything. But they're still a minority.

So if you want to lower the number of people exploring, by all means bring in mechanisms that are arbitrarily unfair with no way to counter-act or at least lessen their blows; but actual skill at exploring, in real life as in virtual, involves minimizing risks and planning and giving up on ridiculous personal biases and going with what works... that's why Admundsen not only gets to the Pole first, but gets back alive too, whilst Scott and his Victorian British assumptions freezes to death. Right now, all you're offering is the option to sign up with Scott's team, and telling them they should love the pain because of that stiff upper lip, what?

As for ending up in the wrong place... that's what happened with jumps in the original Elite, remember? But the thing was, you ended up in Witchspace, but most importantly, were allowed to fight back against the Thargoids and leave again. You were offered new gameplay, but also a way to turn it to your advantage; you could even scoop the baby Thargoids up and sell them for insane profit. "jumping too close to a star" is just engaging your wish to be flagellated again, and is the opposite of good game design. "Ooh hurt me harder, Mistress FSD". Well if you want to pay millions for that, go ahead. But don't expect others to be forced to gamble their entire exploration rewards on your fetishes again.

Not without giving them a way to control or enjoy it.

 

[Setu]

The danger part needs to be a risk/reward balance. So maybe a low-end FSD has a larger error in drop-out point, so you either target a safer distance from the star, (but have a longer trip in to refuel) or you increase the risk of a misjump into a star. The error rate does not need to be high - perhaps 1:million, and maybe a jump into a planet or star would be such a catastrophe that it would destroy the planet and people might go to visit the site! Actually you could jump to the wavefront of the light and watch it yourself.

 

[Ryder35]

Very interesting to look at the DDF entry on exploring. Lots of interesting ideas here:

Spoiler

In Elite: Dangerous explorers are players who travel out into undiscovered areas of the galaxy, hoping to find previously undiscovered systems and locations. Explorers scan and record data wherever they go, and can sell that data on to various interested authorities. Explorers can also sell on data they have discovered to other players, allowing them to sell the co-ordinates of a valuable find to the highest bidder, or keep their discoveries to exploit for themselves.
Explorer players must discover different points of interest using different methods

Explorer players’ main method of making money is through selling details of points of interest they discover
Points of interest players can discover include:
Star Systems
Dark Systems (systems without a star, but other features)
Stars
Planets
Asteroids, comets
Moons
Structures
Other Phenomena
These Discovered locations may include:
Secret Locations
Resources
Events/Missions (time limited and permenant)
Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
Messages/Beacons
Players explore to build up the details on their galaxy map
When starting a new commander the player will have some details on their galaxy map
This will allow the player to travel to any locations they have map data to, without having to explore
Players can buy map data from authorities to expand their ships computers library of maps
New map data will allow the player to travel to new locations without needing to explore
Map data that is bought from authorities is not to the highest level of detail and can be improved with player gathered data
Map data includes hyperspace routes to systems and major points of interest in that system

Players can use scanning equipment and probes to detect systems and record new hyperspace routes
Scanners are used to detect any nearby systems that are within the players jump range
Scanners will give the player a vague indication of the direction of a system
High end scanners can give the player a better details of the system they have detected (is it a star, an asteroid field etc.)
Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
Probes will give the player heat-map style data to help guide the player to the correct co-ordinates for a jump
Different probe ammo can provide different information, or react based on objects in the target system
Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system
The player’s ship records data of any successful jumps the player makes
The pilots federation will always pay players for the first successful jump they make using the exploration method (If the player bought the map data for the jump they cannot sell the data), even if the player is not the first person ever to make the jump (the pilots federation use the data to improve their telemetry and keep maps up to date)
If the player is the first person to ever make the journey they receive a bonus for discovering the hyperspace route
The closer the player lines up their jump to the target system, the higher quality the data the players ship will gather on the jump. Higher quality data is worth more money when sold to authorities
If a player’s jump is not accurate enough they may suffer a miss jump
Longer distance jumps require a higher level of accuracy
A systems contents may also affect how accurate a players jump must be to avoid mis-jumping



Players use scanners to detect points of interest within systems
The player’s scanners detect various points of interest around the player
It takes time for players scanners to detect points of interest
Player’s proximity to a point of interest can affect the time it takes to detect
Players ship facing can affect the time it takes to detect a point of interest (e.g. pointing my ship at a undiscovered point of interest will allow me to scan it faster)
Different types of points of interest can require different player actions to detect
For example to detect a mineral rich formation of asteroids the player must launch probes around an asteroid field
The probes provide a cross section from their perspective of the asteroid field they’re launched at
Each additional probe the player uses provides more details on the target asteroid field
The player uses their scanner to view the data from the probes, and must tag the areas with the highest concentration of minerals in the field
Once this process is complete the point of interest is completed
The quality of the players scan of the area affects the value of the data
The quality of the player’s scan can affect the amount and type of materials found in the asteroids



Players can sell information they have gathered to other players as well as authorities. This is done through a trade interface similar to the trade goods trading interface. Players can sell hyperspace routes from their location to any single system they have explored to. The purchasing player then offers a price (this can be 0 if it is a gift), and if both players are satisfied they agree to the trade. Players can also trade in system data including locations of points of interest using the same method.
I’d like to gauge player interest in a community driven photography contest, which would be another way of explorers earning money.

Players can take photographs (essentially screenshots) from their view ports (with and without cockpit and GUI etc)
Player photographs can be submitted to a regular photography contest
Players can only submit one photograph each
Players can vote on a selection of the best photographs
The player(s) who get the most votes wins the competition
The winner gets a (in game) cash prize (plus prizes for 2nd 3rd most weird etc.)
The photograph (and other user submissions) will be used in appropriate places in the game (billboards, news papers, etc.)



Players who decide to go exploring are jumping into the unknown, and without high end kit, often with little to no knowledge of the dangers they are jumping in to. Alongside the risk of encountering hostility when jumping to an unknown system, explorers scanners attract a lot of attention, generating lots of heat. Explorer ships will need to be prepared to face hostile activity when exploring, and players need to be ready to fight for their claims or run for their lives.

Issues
Will exploration remain interesting and profitable long term?
What other things can players discover in a system that have value to sell?
What could the scanning process be for those discoverables?
Will players risk scanning for hyperspace routes or just buy data?