What should 100m an hour look like?

Jmanis

Jmanis
Robert Maynard said:
That is indeed the saying - however the OP seems to be trying to change how all players will be rewarded for activities they already engage in. So it'd be more "if you don't like it anymore, stop doing what you've been doing".
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.... ok? I think you've lost the plot somewhere along the way.

The thread is called "What 100m/h should look like"
I've listed what a bunch of activities 100m/h should look like. Of course that carries with it the implicit suggestion that some activities which currently net 100m/h need to be pared back. I thought that was obvious. To be explicit, if we're sticking with my OP, and the listed activities should net 100m/h, then:

  • Grinding Sothis/Ceos/Robigo endlessly and ignoring the rest of the inhabited bubble shouldn't net 100m/h
  • Mining in the bubble shouldn't net 100m/h
  • Cross-stacked massacre wing missions shouldn't net 100m/h
  • Various other earning techniques which I can't discuss here as they are exploits shouldn't net 100m/h either

Again, I thought that was pretty obvious in my OP. Apparently not...
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Jmanis said:
Can we please get back on topic now?
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Indeed - I'm reasonably content with the challenge in the game in relation to earnings for particular activities - a challenge that Frontier set taking the whole player-base into account, not just those who consider that [insert activity here] should be made harder for others.

.... and, given the announced cost of Fleet Carriers, the fact that they are upgradeable (no costs yet published), and require upkeep (similarly no publication of cost) - I doubt that a reduction in earning rate / increase in challenge for the same earning rate would be very much appreciated by players in general at this time.
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
Deejayeff145 said:
Let's just have Elite: Diamond miner. Either that or a 'Gib Credits' button somewhere so players can get their kicks from watching a number increase.

The salt flowing from the threads talking about having to do more than nothing to maintain fleet carriers shows how many players just want an idle click game.
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Some already complain about having to engage in PvE activities to fund their habit of engaging in activities with other players that may incur rebuys.
 

"Red" the Pirate

"Red" the Pirate
Jmanis said:
Exploration
Y'know what? It's kinda ok how it is, once you throw long-range visitor tourism into the mix. But that's more tourism, and not really exploration. So realistically, collecting codex entries should be worth a bunch more than the paltry 50k for a new find, 2.5k for a find you've made elsewhere already.
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Not quite sure about that one. It took me a few months (give or take a few breaks) to travel to beagle and back, and seeing just about everything in-between (in a "semi-straight line", that is.). That whole journey netted me about 700-800mil, minus the crew cut (darn leeches...). Meanwhile, in boron, or whatever it's called, people are making the same amount, if not more, in just a few hours.

Pretty sure there's something a little busted in there...

As for an exploration "gold rush", i'd propose something along the lines of a certain area paying out a huge bonus for a certain period of time. Just to even the odds at least a little.
 

BDelacroix

BDelacroix
One thing I like is that further from population areas has 0 incentive to do anything there. Exploration prices are the same regardless of danger or distance. Combat is non existent (not sure what to do about that). Deep mining isn't any more (it is actually less) profitable than in-sphere mining.
 

Wes_7569

Wes_7569
I have been doing wing missions. Systems with an outbreak or at war are the best. You can also get lucky at Boom stations sometimes but not as often. Missions for allied ranking look like 12-40 mil for 1200-2000 tones of cargo. The combat missions depend on your wing. I like to do medium to low because the High sometimes has the capital ships show up and it always gets worse after they show up. Ether freezing, taking kills, or everyone becomes an enemy
 

Vedmo

Vedmo
The disparity is absurd, no doubt, with all sorts of room for improvement, and I do like some of the ideas in OP so far as game play ideas.

There are a lot of factors that used to matter, that just don't anymore with certain activities. Rank has become an absolute joke for trade, almost a complete joke for exploration, and still a decent task for combat. Rank is meaningless for mining and has been for other gold rushes. I think Frontier needs to decide if rank should still be a factor in earnings equations.

Another one is ship progression/pricing. Big paying mining doesn't care how good your ship is, and any slight benefits that can be gained by a bigger or better ship have been completely trivialized by the earnings of your first run instantly covering the costs of any wanted upgrades.

They've yet to get wing payouts right. There isn't even consistency between wing delivery (volume for completion goes up) and wing combat (volume for completion goes down). I don't like how wing missions pay the same regardless of the number of people completing them, and that coupled with stacking leads to the high payout.

Progression is dead in this game outside of engineering and skill, and while I don't like the disparity of pay across activities, I don't really see a point in trying to remedy it without first deciding what factors still belong in the equation.

I don't envy Frontier on this, as it would be difficult enough to balance for a single player game, throw group play and varying skill levels to the mix and it's even more challenging. I just wish I was convinced they are even trying.
 
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wetwire

wetwire
I think it is fair to say it would be nice to see credit earnings directly corresponding to difficulty.
As the mission board already preforms this operation it implies this is how the rest of the galaxy views credit earnings.
A mission for mostly harmless combat rank should pay far less then a similar request for elite combat rank.
Trying to quantify this same principal to non mission board activities is what has players scratching their head on profit earnings for some activities.
Traders running cargo from one place to another are dependent on supply and demand, not actual difficulty of the task. But adding levels of difficulty to transport cargo that directly relates to profit would be welcome as it would fall in line with known expected profits from the mission board.
This is sort of accomplished during missions as NPC's will be spawned and attempt to thwart your efforts, destroying them earns more profit.
Perhaps extending these events biased on the cargo being delivered, or the system state it is being delivered to could indirectly increase profits using similar situations.
Same would apply to mining, as the threat and danger increase so should the potential profits.
If a CMDR with mostly harmless rank in Combat, Exploration, and Trade can run out and earn millions of credits from deep core mining , this does raises red flags to the separation from established profit understandings the mission board proposes.
If a core mined commodity can be sold for upwards of 1 million credits per ton which completely shadows any other commodity on the market, this should trigger all sorts of nasty when you pull one onboard. If a system is known to contain this valuable resources then every pirate in the galaxy should be watching these like a hawk, remote sensors, scouts, serious and repeated interdiction in the system. The raw profits of the resource implies it is of high difficulty so the actual threat should match just as a mission rank elite would have.
 

kaelys

K
Smuggling should be more lucrative. As it is, you make more money delivering legal goods than you do illegal/covert ones. Also, the black markets should pay more for goods that are illegal in the system you are in. I can see the black markets paying less for goods that have been stolen but are otherwise legal in the system. The BM is acting as a fence in that scenario. But if you smuggle something into a system that is illegal, like mines in fed space for example, then the BM should pay you a premium.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
It's complete ollocks imo that one ore two commodities earn and unlock all the game. I mean I don't complain, though, because the alternative would be to incur strokes from repetetive grinding so I'd rather leave it in and see people progress through this grind. I kinda defeats the purpose of the universe and the progress. Then again my personal narrative is "be done and over with it quickly so you can start really playing the game".
 

wetwire

wetwire
kaelys said:
Smuggling should be more lucrative. As it is, you make more money delivering legal goods than you do illegal/covert ones. Also, the black markets should pay more for goods that are illegal in the system you are in. I can see the black markets paying less for goods that have been stolen but are otherwise legal in the system. The BM is acting as a fence in that scenario. But if you smuggle something into a system that is illegal, like mines in fed space for example, then the BM should pay you a premium.
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I was trying to think of how to explain that too.
I agree with this.
But on the same token as it stands, delivering to the BM is not much harder then standard delivery. The only barrier is landing without being scanned. So slight difficulty increase but not much. Should still reflect in the selling price, or a flat bonus for delivering to the BM.
Difficulty = Profit
 

Snowymonk

Snowymonk
It appears that the Fleet Carrier announcement has started to affect the payout of mining. LTD was selling in Bond Dock last night at 1.7Mil / t. Today the max eddb can find is 960k / t.

It won’t be long before mining will no longer be the most profitable profession
 

wetwire

wetwire
A thought,
Combine Resource extraction sites and Hotspots.
What makes a hazardous hotspot "Haz Hot?" would be directly related to the value of material one could find.
Look at current Haz Res sites, those poor npc miners get no break from pirates, but we as players visit them for the bounties. If the two where combined this would help rationalize the high market value of deep core material and expand many Open player to player interactions or even fleet events to extract the resources.

The further from habitable space should reduce the hazard level of the hotspot for those who are looking to mine with some peace and quite but with the draw back of distance from delivery location.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
wetwire said:
The further from habitable space should reduce the hazard level of the hotspot for those who are looking to mine with some peace and quite but with the draw back of distance from delivery location.
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Distance will, I expect, be less of an issue when Carriers are available.
 

wetwire

wetwire
Robert Maynard said:
Distance will, I expect, be less of an issue when Carriers are available.
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Unless Carriers in the deep black become a large shining beacon to ambush returning miners as there is no system security to speak of. So in that situation maybe i don't want to sell this valuable cargo to the nearby carrier, ill take my chances returning it to the bubble.
 
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