What the heck is wrong with all the whiners on here?

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I think you are looking back on the past with rose-tinted spectacles. Case in point: Bethesda's Daggerfall, released 1996. This shipped with a shedload of game breaking bugs. If you were lucky you got the 'service disk' that addressed some of them. 'Descent to Undermountain' was another promising game that failed because it shipped in a broken state. If these games shipped today, at least their extensive buglists could be mitigated via downloaded patches.

Bethesda titles are notorious for bugs and glitches and I never played them. The first Bethesda title I played was Oblivion. I'm looking back to the days of Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Tomb Raider, Descent and so on. Before the trend of fixing games post release really took hold. Even Electronic Arts managed to release games that didn't require a series of fairly major updates to be playable. Batman Arkham Knight, despite being a great game, was an absolute disaster on PC and was pulled altogether. It has since had a major overhaul and is how it should have been at release, but it's taken them months to fix it. That never used to be the case, regardless of the type of spectacles you might wear.

Nope, its for discussion of the game, and providing constructive criticism.

Does it actually say that in the TOS, or are you just presenting your own prejudiced interpretation of the purpose of these forums?
 
Yeah, this... all the RNG complaints... do people just want things handed to them? In a galaxy as big as this, it would certainly be a very random event to encounter one of the probes. You certainly wouldn't have the internet or other pilots telling you where and when to look. You wouldn't have benefit of the hours other players have put into this. In fact, if you nabbed a UP, how would you know what to do with it? How would you find one of the active alien ship sites? How would you know what order to do the sequencing that results in the map display if not for other players having put in the work & written about it?

Seems people don't really want to play this game, they just want to collect all the shineys. Sad.

Randomized outcomes for consistent behavior is the apex of ignorant abusive and disgusting game design. RNG has its place - on the back end. When the top level experience is determined by RNG, you're no longer playing a game you're just getting jerked around by a machine. In a top-level RNG system there is no such thing as "putting in the effort" nor is there such a thing as "wanting things handed to you". These concepts are meaningless because there's no such thing as doing a good job or a bad job, no such thing as success or failure. You as the player only have one role: to show up. Everything else is out of your hands.

It's not a play mechanics, or a challenge, or a puzzle. It's a barrier which randomly exists for some and not for others at different times. It's Schroedinger's Fun. It's a Stochastic Wall.
 
Yeah, this... all the RNG complaints... do people just want things handed to them?

Why must we keep circling back to this single, fundamental failure to grasp the very simple reality that random outcomes and handouts are wholly unrelated concepts. They are not directly opposing views in which the exclusion of one mandates the other. Any reasoning that determines that dissatisfaction with RNG inherently means wanting "handouts" is not only entirely wrong, but fundamentally delusional.

It's getting hard to believe at this point that this argument keeps being made with any shred of intellectual honesty.
 
Does it actually say that in the TOS, or are you just presenting your own prejudiced interpretation of the purpose of these forums?

'Prejudiced' ?

Look, it's a fair comment: constructive criticism is welcome because it's, you know, constructive. There's a sort of clue in the name.

But if all you want to do is moan and whinge then off to Reddit you go. Tatty bye.

Gods, Descent... drove my eyes crazy but surely sharpened my sense of 3D fluid movement & geometry.

I'd pay real money for a remastered Decent and Decent 2 on something like the PS4. I've still got the PS1 versions but the graphics are just eye-wateringly bad on a high-res LCD screen. CRTs were much more forgiving in this respect.
 

NecoMachina

N
Yeah, this... all the RNG complaints... do people just want things handed to them? In a galaxy as big as this, it would certainly be a very random event to encounter one of the probes. You certainly wouldn't have the internet or other pilots telling you where and when to look. You wouldn't have benefit of the hours other players have put into this. In fact, if you nabbed a UP, how would you know what to do with it? How would you find one of the active alien ship sites? How would you know what order to do the sequencing that results in the map display if not for other players having put in the work & written about it?

Seems people don't really want to play this game, they just want to collect all the shineys. Sad.
This logic is so flawed I'm not even sure where to start. Acquiring a probe does not involve "gameplay". It's literally sit at a specific spot for an indeterminate amount of time (anywhere from 30 minutes to several days) until the signal source spawns for you. You really see no flaws in this "gameplay"? This is what you deem fun? I don't think the probes need to be so easy to get that anyone can get one in 5 minutes, but can we get some actual gameplay systems involved here? something more interesting than "throttle down, put netflix on the other screen, and settle in for hours of waiting"? Can you seriously not see why some people are complaining about how this has been implemented?
 
Bethesda titles are notorious for bugs and glitches and I never played them.

Bethesda have taken risks and created some amazing and immersive game worlds. An unfortunate side effect is a rather larger than average bug list. Broken quests, glitchy AI and the occasional crash. Sound familiar?

But I'll take that in return for 1000s of hours of enjoyment.
 
I mean, I'm away on an oil rig just now, and I foolishly decided not to pack my hotas and Oculus Rift this trip, then boom the elite comms channels light up with news of the alien bases not least the live one. Yet as I watch the videos and read the forums I am astounded by the salty vitriolic snidey remarks I come across dissing the content. I'm left astounded by the immensely inappropriate negativity of it all. Seriously what is wrong with you people?

I'm not able to fully immerse myself in it yet as I wont see my wife, kids, hotas and VR for another few weeks, yet even viewing it on the 17" 4k screen of my gaming laptop in HD via youtube I am simply stunned by what was found. My mind was blown in hd youtube small screen, 2.1x SS Oculus rift - oooohyah!

So given my evident appreciation for the teaser content, you'll understand my dismay at the lame dissing its getting. Lest y'all forget this wasn't even announced as coming, or alluded to, and there was a general sense that the E3 stream / fragged Farragut / robotic phonetic "Thargoids Return" beacon was all we'd see until 2.4 dropped. Heck even at the lavecon conference they kept this stuff up their sleeves. So here we are with a bonus content addition and yet Fdev are still taking grief?

Frontier I salute you, those sites look stunning and I cannot wait to fully immerse myself in them, please ignore the naysayers, today's Revelations really pulled a rabbit out of the hat. o7

What amazes me is that people think that these threads which "finger-wag" at other people to stop complaining is actually going to have any effect at all. Why do you bother? Don`t you realise it does nothing except maybe make you feel better in your mind?

Just ignore a whining thread, like depriving fire of oxygen it kills it faster.

Also what you consider "whining" could be a very good complaint that needs looking into. If nobody complained, nothing would have the potential to be even better.

What happens when you find something you feel justly ok to complain about, should I post a whole thread telling you to shut up? You ask for someone`s right to complain to be taken away, they can then ask for YOUR right to complain be taken away. It works both ways, m8.
 
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What amzes me is that people think that these threads which "finger-wag" at other people to stop complaining is actually going to have any effect at all. Why do you bother? Don`t you realise it does nothing except maybe make you feel better in your mind?

Just ignore a whining thread, like deprving fire of oxygen it kills it faster.

Also what you consider "whining" could be a very good complaint that needs looking into. If nobody complained, nothing would have the potential to be even better.

What happens when you find something you feel justly ok to complain about, should I post a whole thread telling you to shut up? You ask for someone`s right to complain to be taken away, they can then ask for YOUR right to complain be taken away. It works both ways, m8.

Words of wisdom. [yesnod]
 
Someone mentioned whine...


wine_clash.jpg



o7 o7 commanders!
 

NecoMachina

N
Bethesda have taken risks and created some amazing and immersive game worlds. An unfortunate side effect is a rather larger than average bug list. Broken quests, glitchy AI and the occasional crash. Sound familiar?

But I'll take that in return for 1000s of hours of enjoyment.
Every time someone brings up the excuse of "there's bugs because our game is so big, innovative, etc" I point to Witcher 3. CD Projekt Red makes games that look better, run better, have far less bugs at launch, no DRM, DLC's that have enough meat on them that they could almost be a full game on their own, and just generally more customer-friendly. They get the job done. No excuses.
 
This logic is so flawed I'm not even sure where to start. Acquiring a probe does not involve "gameplay". It's literally sit at a specific spot for an indeterminate amount of time (anywhere from 30 minutes to several days) until the signal source spawns for you. You really see no flaws in this "gameplay"? This is what you deem fun? I don't think the probes need to be so easy to get that anyone can get one in 5 minutes, but can we get some actual gameplay systems involved here? something more interesting than "throttle down, put netflix on the other screen, and settle in for hours of waiting"? Can you seriously not see why some people are complaining about how this has been implemented?

This is a very valid point. I don't see people asking to be given free stuff every time they take off here, it's about the player's ability to influence their chances of obtaining the item; essentially player agency. You can put that item behind a skill wall rather than one built on random chance and you're still restricting supply but rather than the restriction being one that the player is helpless to influence (your options currently being confined to 'sit and wait' or 'give up and do something else') it becomes one that actually provides entertainment and through it satisfaction in itself.
 
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Every time someone brings up the excuse of "there's bugs because our game is so big, innovative, etc" I point to Witcher 3. CD Projekt Red makes games that look better, run better, have far less bugs at launch, no DRM, DLC's that have enough meat on them that they could almost be a full game on their own, and just generally more customer-friendly. They get the job done. No excuses.

Yep, I like TES but it's not a "good" game. I like the lore, Morrowind was/is a cult classic, Oblivion was fun if a bit generic. Skyrim... Skyrim was bland, stale and as generic as you can possibly imagine. I mean, they even went so far as to retcon dragons so they could get the "ERMAGERD DRAGUNZ!?" crowd.

Add to that it was still glitchy, unstable and run like a shetland poney with its legs sawed off at the knee's on release.

This is a very valid point. I don't see people asking to be given free stuff every time they take off here, it's about the player's ability to influence their chances of obtaining the item. You can put that item behind a skill wall rather than one built on random chance and you're still restricting supply but rather than the restriction being one that the player is helpless to influence (your options currently being confined to 'sit and wait' or 'give up and do something else') it becomes one that actually provides entertainment in itself.

Yep, this is a big complaint of mine and it is often met with the asinine "You just want a WIN button huh?". No, I want the game to reward me for getting better at it.
A great case in point is the current bounty hunting CG. There is no skill involved with this, I just sit idle in a RES until something insignifcant spawns and I blow it away. Which seems to happen on average every 10mins.
The limit to my reward will be the games willingness to spawn NPC's for me to kill, not my ability to kill them.
 
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NecoMachina

N
Exactly! Time-gated content is the absolute laziest, worst way to measure a player's "progression". What kills me the most is that FDEV are smart enough to implement the Stellar Forge which can procedurally generate an entire galaxy based on real science. These are some brilliant guys, but for whatever reason they just can't seem to get the little things right. It's like they have the tech guys, but they need some proper game design experts or something, I dunno.
 
Every time someone brings up the excuse of "there's bugs because our game is so big, innovative, etc" I point to Witcher 3. CD Projekt Red makes games that look better, run better, have far less bugs at launch, no DRM, DLC's that have enough meat on them that they could almost be a full game on their own, and just generally more customer-friendly. They get the job done. No excuses.

I bring it up because, in my estimation, there are games that are worth playing despite their flaws. It's not an excuse, it's a judgement call on my part. Others will disagree yet continue to play this game for 100s or 1000s of hours. That's why this thread is at 15 pages and still going strong.

Witcher 3 was brilliant. But you know what? I'm done with it because I completed the story mode.
 
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