What's with the mood shift?

Masteradstriker

M
Hey guys.

I don't know about you, but do you notice a change of mood in the PZ forum? Ever since the Beta rolled out, the vibe here changed drastically from happy optimistic to confusion and disgruntlement, even insult.

When I first entered this forum a month or two ago, I was thrilled to see the friendliness of users in this forum, way different than the Steam forums. But for the last few days, the friendliness has turn into hostility, to the game, to FD, to other users. I see disgruntlement and ungratefulness, frustration and impatience. Where is the cheerful atmosphere this forum is known for?
 

Lilo

Lilo
I see a lot of people getting frustrated, but there's always responses to try and help them out. I've been keeping an eye out both here and on steam to offer help when I can. I see a lot of genuine bugs but then there's also a lot of people who were maybe expecting an easier game or to have their hands held a bit more. I think it will improve as more guides and tutorials make their way out there.

I've had my fair share of frustrations, zoos crashing, progress lost, my first zoo failing spectacularly as I learned the ropes. I just take a break, search out a solution and then resume. Despite the bugs I'm really enjoying the game and I can't wait for the full release. Once the beta bugs are ironed out I can spend hours and hours building one exhibit without fear of losing all the progress.
 

Masteradstriker

M
Factabulous said:
Fantasy meets reality. Chaos ensues :)
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Coincidentally, your name suits your post, Factabulous!

Glad some of you can pipe in the conversation. My biggest gripe with forums like this isn't the message, but how the message is delivered. You know as well as I do that some users here are rather...disrespectful. They may have the right message, but they convey it in a manner that nobody would enjoy, i.e. insults and whines. Somehow I get the feeling that they are immature humans.

Enough bad talking. I suggest that we try to convey our concerns in a more polite manner and at least be patient for the updates. We know FD is a hard-working company who listens to aspiration, and rest assure they'll do everything in their power to make PZ the best zoo game ever.
 

Whats0There

Whats0There
This is an internet forum and an internet community. It is a feature of the modern day internet that it is accessible to the broadest variety of people. Ages, personalities, educational backgrounds, languages, (sub)cultures. It's an immensely multicultural endeavor where miscommunication is especially likely to occur. Some cultures value directness, whereas others value politeness. They will have different, but still broadly accepted ways of voicing concerns. Being charitable and patient are virtues in this context, even when stuff people say may (seem to) strike the wrong note.
 

HipsterJesus42

H
I was active on the forums for all of the Fallout 76 Beta. If you think this is confused and disgruntled you should have seen the level of contempt people were showing towards Bethesda. Some people expect a lot more from Beta, and unlike the Fallout Beta this one is surprisingly put-together. I'm sure though, that some people expect the level of completeness of certain steam games that stay in "early access" long after they could officially launch. That kind of Beta is an excuse to not change, whereas this one is genuinely here so that Frontier can accept and adapt to our feedback. They've been pretty receptive from what I've seen.

In summary, I don't see why people are complaining either lol.
 

Bitter Jeweler

Bitter Jeweler
I think a lot of the negativity comes from poor expectation management.
It comes from taking the marketing fluff and applying the most extreme definitions to marketing keywords, or even reading too deeply into the them. Take “realistic” for example. How do you define it, how do I define it, and how does über animal fan Karen define it, or how does Karl “I’ve been waiting 15 years for this game!” define it?

To use your own words Masteradstriker, what does “the best zoo game ever” even mean? PZ might be the best zoo game to me, or you, but not Karen or Karl. Why? Self formed expectations. My expectations are probably lower than Karen’s. While I’m happy with what I see, Karen feels betrayed and lied too. That’s what is playing out. The exact same thing happened with PlanCo.

PlanCo was marketed as “Simulation Evolved”, but again what exactly does that mean?
 

LN

LN
Masteradstriker said:
My biggest gripe with forums like this isn't the message, but how the message is delivered.
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I agree.

With current Social Media, and the way it's used. (Facebook to me is one of the main sources of fake news).
People still think Internet is a anonymous place where they appear to have the idea that writing what they are thinking is okay. But in most cases it's not.

Rude and immature behaviour is getting more and more normal these days, which is reflected on the net and it's "keyboard warriors".

I do have to say this only counts for a small portion on these forums.

Criticism is okay in every way. But it needs to stay civil.
 
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Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
I find the criticism rather civil. What often goes over board is the critisism of the critisism. There are basically two kind of customers. Those who see themself as customers and know they have paid for the game and therefore want to make sure they get a quality product and basically what they paid for.
And those who see games as a gift and through around words like "ungreateful", when the other people are pointing out that something is off. These are emotional words that fuel the fire.

I wouldn't call it mood-shift what's happening here. Just end of the honeymoon stage, because the husband / wife is now sitting on your sofa at home and open toothpaste and dirty clothes all around reminds you that not everything is always good. Bringing those topics up keeps the marriage alive, though. If you don't talk about it, there will be divorce in one year. E.g. the interest in the game dying, dlcs not selling well etc.
 

LN

LN
Swjosdotschka said:
Those who see themself as customers and know they have paid for the game and therefore want to make sure they get a quality product and basically what they paid for.
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This is an impossible task to achieve. I hope all those "customers" understand that.

The problem I have with this is, that this is not how it works. You can have every ability to suggest new stuff and ask for it, but if the game isn't the "quality" product you desire, of there is a fear it won't be as desirable as they want. They can get a refund.

When you buy something in a store, and it is not working as you want, or it's not the quality product you desire, you go back and get a refund, or ask for a replacement product (different company, but same idea), but you don't go demanding that the product will be changed to your wishes.

Thanks for your feedback is the default response you get with every one of those companies.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Luuknoord said:
When you buy something in a store, and it is not working as you want, or it's not the quality product you desire, you go back and get a refund, or ask for a replacement product (different company, but same idea), but you don't go demanding that the product will be changed to your wishes.
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Oh, I'm in no way asking for a product that is changend to my wishes. I was more talking about advertised features that either aren't in as marketed (in my opinion and some others) (individual behaviour) or are not working out as the devs might have plannend them (franchise mode and the player market). Thankfully a game is not a vacuumer. A vacuumer won't change via feedback. A game these days is always a work in progress and good feedback will in fact help.

And there are huuuge steps between completely disliking a game and therefore refunding it and critisizing because something is not okay the way it is for whatever reason.
 

LN

LN
Swjosdotschka said:
Oh, I'm in no way asking for a product that is changend to my wishes. I was more talking about advertised features that either aren't in as marketed (in my opinion and some others) (individual behaviour) or are not working out as the devs might have plannend them (franchise mode and the player market). Thankfully a game is not a vacuumer. A vacuumer won't change via feedback. A game these days is always a work in progress and good feedback will in fact help.

And there are huuuge steps between completely disliking a game and therefore refunding it and critisizing because something is not okay the way it is for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

I know it was not you asking it. :);)
 

WingardiumLevicoaster

Volunteer Moderator
WingardiumLevicoaster
Sometimes criticism does cross the mark. It becomes personal in such communities, thought generally this one is for the most part friendly. It is all in the delivery. However, these are points I think everyone should consider. (as a dev and as a dev who works in HR)
  • Personal attacks are most likely to demotivate devs (or any staff member for that matter). Employee engagement in any workplace is how to get the best out of people.
  • Development is already stressful without hurtful/snarky comments or threats.
  • Friendly worded criticism is useful to make improvements. If it comes across as mean to me it seems less valid (even though that might not be true! but hostility is a trigger)
  • 100s of people work on such a project and takes an enormous amount of coordination. No single person is responsible for something and decisions will be made for reasons, though these reasons could be wrong.
  • Kindness is king, devs are people with complex lives, not robots that churn out code.
Obviously these are my opinions, but they are things I think many will observe from their own working life from many careers and industries.
 

Swjosdotschka

Swjosdotschka
Another point that came to my mind that might be the reason for mixed reviews: The game appeals to a LOT of players with LOT of different playstyles. While my playstyle is pretty much represented (in the full game at least and as long as the animals get more personality), not every is. In my opinion Frontier is making an AWESOME job catering to a huge player base with different playstyles. But my opinion is not facts and especially players that are highly interested in the management of the game often find it to easy. This is something you have to expierience. No one could have known this before the beta. And of course these players are disapointed if they are used to a higher level of management and money issues, while for me the money-making is almost too frustrating already. Because I am clearly no manager.
 
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