When did Exploration become 'Get there as fast as you can!!' ???

[NeilF]

MP functionality.

You'll need to help me out on that?

So a scenario... A group of you want to explore say around Beagle Point? Playing a few hours every day, that would mean a travel time in an average Anaconda about 10 days?

So, a group of you and your friends can get there in conventional ships in under two weeks, to then explore the region for say two weeks, before then spending about ten days travelling back.

But with an FC? A group of you will spend about 3-4 months travelling there, with every few jumps, mining being required... At the region, you'll then spend two weeks exploring, before spending three+ months nursemaiding the FC back again, having to stop for hour(s) every couple of jumps...

What MP functionality is being added or made more interesting by making the FC needlessly so slow and clunky at travelling long distances?

 

[NeilF]

I still don't understand why people insist on making a point of how bad FCs are for explorers. They're not made for that specific job, can we move on? XD

What "specific job"?

And what gameplay improvement is added by making an Exploration FC so needlessly unsuited for exploration? What gameplay requirement is there in making them a dozen times slower than say an Anaconda? What gameplay would be broken in making them 25-50% the speed of an Anaconda?

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

You'll need to help me out on that?

So a scenario... A group of you want to explore say around Beagle Point? Playing a few hours every day, that would mean a travel time in an average Anaconda about 10 days?

So, a group of you and your friends can get there in conventional ships in under two weeks, to then explorer the region for say two weeks, before then spending about ten days travelling back.

But with an FC? A group of you will spend about three+ month or more travelling there, with every few jumps, mining being required... At the region, you'll then spend two weeks exploring, before spending three+ months nursemaiding the FC back again, having to stop for hour(s) every couple of jumps...

What MP functionality is being added or made more interesting by making the FC needlessly so slow and clunky at travelling long distances?

The windup has been explained already. Ppl jump with FC in system. Guy owning the FC jumps out. Ppl are stranded and come to forum. Of course this has no significance to solo players, but there we are.

 

[NeilF]

The windup has been explained already. Ppl jump with FC in system. Guy owning the FC jumps out. Ppl are stranded and come to forum. Of course this has no significance to solo players, but there we are.

So your issue is?:-
1) FC jumps into a system
2) A CMDR deploys from FC
3) FC begins to windup to leave, so the CMDR has an hour to get back on board?

So your issue is, if the windup is reduced to say a minute (for Exploration FCs), the CMDR cannot get back on board in time and the FC can leave without them?

How is that anything more than poor team work, and more likely, someone jumping their FC on purpose without a CMDR onboard?

ie: What stops:-
1) My FC jumps into a system
2) A CMDR deploys from my FC
3) I change my docking permission to "SOLO"
4) My FC begins to windup up for an hour to leave, and the CMDR can't get back on board

How is that scenario any different? The FC owner has wantonly jumped without a CMDR on board...?


So we're back to, what does it add to the gameplay by (needlessly) making an exploration FC a dozen times slower than a conventional exploration ship?

Again, I'm not suggesting all FCs should be made faster. Or Exploration FCs are made faster or even as fast as say an Anaconda. Only that modules/features should be available to make an FC more suitable for exploration - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ities-specific-exploration-fc-modules.540165/

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

So your issue is?:-
1) FC jumps into a system
2) A CMDR deploys from FC
3) FC begins to windup to leave, so the CMDR has an hour to get back on board?

So your issue is, if the windup is reduced to say a minute (for Exploration FCs), the CMDR cannot get back on board in time and the FC can leave without them?

How is that anything more than poor team work, and more likely, someone jumping their FC on purpose without a CMDR onboard?

ie: What stops:-
1) My FC jumps into a system
2) A CMDR deploys from my FC
3) I change my docking permission to "SOLO"
4) My FC begins to windup up for an hour to leave, and the CMDR can't get back on board

How is that scenario any different? The FC owner has wantonly jumped without a CMDR on board...?


So we're back to, what does it add to the gameplay by (needlessly) making an exploration FC a dozen times slower than a conventional exploration ship?

Again, I'm not suggesting all FCs should be made faster. Or Exploration FCs are made faster or even as fast as say an Anaconda. Only that modules/features should be available to make an FC more suitable for exploration - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ities-specific-exploration-fc-modules.540165/

I'm not having an issue. I don't have the credits anyway for FC. Nor the will to grind them. I'm just pointing out how one aspect (windup) is there because of MP and how it collides with SP interest. And there is a lot of concessions around MP and SP in one game.

 

[NeilF]

I'm not having an issue. I don't have the credits anyway for FC. Nor the will to grind them. I'm just pointing out how one aspect (windup) is there because of MP and how it collides with SP interest. And there is a lot of concessions around MP and SP in one game.

Understood, and I'm hoping I've pointed out how that "windup limitation" is a bit of a non-issue... If someone is jumping away without a CMDR that would be down to bad team work or trolling on purpose. The former should not dictate an outcome that nerfs Exploration FCs so that it makes them all but useless for most CMDRs. The latter can't be prevented.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Understood, and I'm hoping I've pointed out how that "windup limitation" is a bit of a non-issue... If someone is jumping away without a CMDR that would be down to bad team work or trolling on purpose. The former should not dictate an outcome that nerfs Exploration FCs so that it makes them all but useless for most CMDRs. The latter can't be prevented.

Apparently the designers think troll prevention and accidental stranding is to be avoided and I agree. At the same time it kinda makes the jump range pointless when you can travel further in a normal ship in the same time. I wouldn't want to wait for 2 hours when going places in between jumps. It's an unsolved design dilemma. 2 fricken hours, lol.
But that's what I mean: MP collides with more fun gameplay all the time. In the end I don't think it was worth giving up on a single-player game of Elite. But that's just me.

 

[VoluptaBox]

But with an FC? A group of you will spend about 3-4 months travelling there, with every few jumps, mining being required... At the region, you'll then spend two weeks exploring, before spending three+ months nursemaiding the FC back again, having to stop for hour(s) every couple of jumps...

So don't go to Beagle with an FC? I don't hear you complaining by the fact that you can't get to Beagle with a stock Sidewinder. It's simply not meant to do that and that is perfectly fine.

What "specific job"?

And what gameplay improvement is added by making an Exploration FC so needlessly unsuited for exploration? What gameplay requirement is there in making them a dozen times slower than say an Anaconda? What gameplay would be broken in making them 25-50% the speed of an Anaconda?

Why do you keep comparing it with the Anaconda, I really don't get it. The FC has certain applications and exploration is not meant to be one of them. Maybe that will change after the betas, but even if it doesn't that is fine. Again, not everything has to cater to everything and everyone. Not exploring in an FC is fine.

Besides, there may be balance reasons involved which we're not grasping. For instance, making them exploration viable (by increasing range and decreasing downtime) may make them too good at other activities. And before you go 'herp derp but the Anaconda is not too good at other activities', FCs are unlike anything else present in the game. The way other ships function and are balanced shouldn't be used as a barometer for how FCs should be balanced.

 

[NeilF]

Apparently the designers think troll prevention and accidental stranding is to be avoided and I agree. At the same time it kinda makes the jump range pointless when you can travel further in a normal ship in the same time. I wouldn't want to wait for 2 hours when going places in between jumps. It's an unsolved design dilemma. 2 fricken hours, lol.
But that's what I mean: MP collides with more fun gameplay all the time. In the end I don't think it was worth giving up on a single-player game of Elite. But that's just me.

In my humble opinion you should be able to buy a heat sink for an Exploration FC which then allows the FC to jump say a dozen times in quick succession, before then a good X hour wait (cool down and refuel) is needed - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...ities-specific-exploration-fc-modules.540165/

ie: A long X hour enforced wait is more condusive to exploration, than lots of short ones after each jump... ie: While the Exploration FC is cooling down/refuelling for X hours, CMDRs can explorer nearby or mine...