When is VOID OPAL nerf coming?

if you're arguing that you should remove credits from the game because they're more negative than positive in making the game fun because the way you get credits is usually boring and repetitive monkey work rather than anything thought provoking than do so. Dont advocate for keeping it around and just bypassing the purpose of it.

It should have a purpose or it should be removed. Make getting credits fun and thus worthy of being a barrier to rewards ...or get rid of credits. The answer is not to make credits easy to get.

The same can be said for distance (another mindless waste of time used as a barrier for rewards in the game). Either give distance a purpose in the game or get rid of it entirely. Continually creating ways to bypass it (with higher jump distances and modules and such) does nothing but damage whatever little lore and gameplay mechanics the game has. Does anything in the bubble anymore make any sense at existing the way it does when people can do 60+ly jumps at a time? no. it's game breaking ...but that game breaking is better than the tedious boredom of watching loading screens on repeat because fdev doesn't want to do anything to make traveling in the game part of the game...

The solution is not living with things in the game that are universally poorly done ...that doesn't serve players at all. It's demanding that they get fixed properly (and given a purpose that benefits the gameplay) or just removed.
 
So here's what I don't get. Why do the anti-money people think getting enough cash to buy whatever you want is "winning" the game? From my perspective, that's the exact point when you actually get to START playing. You can finally tinker with the incredibly deep ship customization to your hearts content. You can focus on the BGS without having to worry about what missions or systems or activities pay the most. You can engage in PvP and actually up your fighting skill without having to stress about rebuys.

Having cash unlocks the full potential of the game, and its dumb to lock that potential behind a series of torturously repetitive tasks.

I made my money back in the good old days of Quince passenger missions, so this while mining thing doesnt affect me personally, but I really feel for the folks hurt by it.

Not really sure how me owning 18 ships with assets of around 6.5 billion makes me 'anti-money'. However to answer your question, your post says it all really. 'Quince passenger missions' and 'torturously repetitive tasks'.

Your mindset is that of a grinder. 'I want X, I know Y pays a lot right now, so I will do Y over and over again until I have the money I want and because I find that really boring, I want a lot of money for it to compensate me for having to do it.' Or at least that's what the example you chose and your language suggests.

I've never spent any time in the game performing 'torturously repetitive tasks' because I never spent time spamming the crap out of things like Quince passenger missions. If I get bored doing something in the game, I do something else. Or play something else. Or read a book. I already have a job, I play games to escape from that, not double down on it.

More to the point, I'm not really sure how being able to regularly bag around 15-20m for an hour's gameplay, as you can in the game today without even thinking about void opal or painite mining with daft prices, represents any sort of barrier to fully engaging with the game. I mean seriously, you can literally make more credits by just flying around the bubble with a discovery scanner these days than missions (other than now fixed exploits/unintended consequences/whatever) paid for the vast majority of the time I've played the game. Anybody who is 'hurt' by losing the ability to haul in around 200m credits an hour from mining needs to give their head a wobble in my opinion, it's absolutely absurd to suggest that's required to provide a sensible pace of progression.

That's without even getting into the fact that the only people who will be 'hurt' by this to begin with are those whose idea of gameplay is following step-by-step instructions in a youtube video. As someone (Jmanis I think) pointed out earlier in the thread, people who care to actually understand the game and gameplay will probably be too busy engineering their own private gold rushes in out-of-the-way systems to be too worried about it. It's hardly unfair to expect a player to take the trouble to understand basic concepts of a game in order to progress in it, if somebody can't be bothered doing that I don't really understand why they want to play the game to begin with.

In short, I have no idea why you think the game only starts when you have a boatload of credits. For me, the game started when I started playing it in a Sidewinder. If I hadn't enjoyed the experience of incrementally improving my ship, then trading up to a better one, I'd have quit after twenty hours tops.

I don't think the pacing of the game back when it took players a year to get into an Anaconda was right; I know some players loved that and yearn for it again but for me, you can't pitch a mass market game with progression that slow. We're light years away from that today though. You can make the credits for a fully A-spec Asp or a stock Python (around 55m in both cases) in a few hours without needing any super-special knowledge, youtube videos or anything else which seems more than reasonable to me. That's been the case since the day they took the rank locks off missions, which was update 2.1 if I recall correctly. None of the grindy aspects that people complain about today (obtaining engineering materials, guardian components etc) have anything to do with credits and credits won't speed any of them up.

The full potential of the game is unlocked when you have ships capable of doing anything. As I pointed out above, you can do literally anything in a Cobra Mk3 other than launch an SLF. Having a bigger ship does not create more gameplay. The concept of ship progression has already become largely redundant since you can get yourself into a high-end medium ship like a Krait, Python or Challenger in a week tops, even if you're completely new to the game and know next to nothing about it. Removing the rank lock from missions in update 2.1 did that. Just doing elite ranked surface scan missions where the only threat is usually a couple of skimmers and maybe a turret that you can just drive away from in your SRV pays over a million per mission plus high grade engineering materials in many cases; you can pick those up for fun and complete them in ten minutes. That's just one example.

I played for a couple of months before I was able to consider ships like that and I found that entirely reasonable, not least because by the time I was able to afford one, I also knew how to use it. As soon as you have a ship like that, your ability to earn more credits increases significantly anyway and it's all good.

Note - I'm not trying to judge you or your opinions here. I think it's fair to say we probably disagree about this topic but I'm just telling you what I think. You can think what you like about it. I do think my own opinion is closer to that of the game's developers though and as I said earlier, it doesn't actually matter what any of us think when you stack it up against that.
 
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So here's what I don't get. Why do the anti-money people think getting enough cash to buy whatever you want is "winning" the game? From my perspective, that's the exact point when you actually get to START playing. You can finally tinker with the incredibly deep ship customization to your hearts content. You can focus on the BGS without having to worry about what missions or systems or activities pay the most. You can engage in PvP and actually up your fighting skill without having to stress about rebuys.
Congratulations. You just made an argument to remove credits from the game entirely.

And if that sounds dumb, then thats exactly what the problem with mining payouts is.
 
Alert, I have inside info, Void Opal nerf is coming today, get out there and mine people.

(for reasons of personal safety it is now standard procedure to include a warning when we are joking or being sarcastic)
 
I do this quite often, because the profit margin of hauling water or biowaste is, in a lot of cases in my area, superior to common haul items like Gold, Silver and Palladium.

When supply is tanked and prices are high, Palladium barely turns a profit, if not a loss if the destination also has been saturated. I'm lucky to get 200-400cr on these items at times.

Below is an image demonstrating how this can occur.

But Water, that's a reliable turner at 600cr/t almost anywhere, because it's very high supply and demand, and players don't often transport it. Of course, if player activity drops and the markets are right, I can get 2,000cr/t profit on Palladium, and so I do ship it in those circumstances, but again, I can only get those prices when destination demand is high and supply is high.

Which is the whole point I'm making here. Supply and demand can totally tank trade prices under normal circumstances, even in favourable state conditions. Why should Voipals and other core minerals be exempt from this?

Corollary: How about this then.... instead of "tanking the price" of core minerals, which is what everyone seems scared of, we do away with all that supply and demand nonsense and keep it simple.

Just like how you can't buy goods when there's zero supply, you can't sell goods when there's zero demand. I mean realistically, who's even buying the stuff when nobody wants it... purchase of goods is not a non-consensual process.
I sense the connotation that those who avoid PvP were doing it because they fear ship loss - which I strongly doubt in most cases.
According to many comments I've read in the past and in related topics I still believe that's a false conclusion.
Though I'm not sure whether FDev probably shares this thought. But then they should have the statistics from telemetry data and know much better whether the high income peaks would actually increase PvP activities. Not sure if there are any means to visualise the number of active PvPers to us and over the time, so someone could probably prove me wrong?

I certainIy can see why PvPers would like the easy income, I just doubt that it works the other way around for those who'll never will like PvP no matter what, even if you'd offer them ships for free. This idea usually came from PvPers (cause to them it understandably matters, while they seem to have a hard time to imagine any other possible reasons) but almost never from PvEers.

But then it's probably me with the false conclusion that FDev would actively try to encourage PvP. Solo mode and blocking filters are telling another story...
I started playing on release and only played Open. I engaged in PvP whenever I could, although I never engaged weaker ships or non fighter ships. As I progressed to more expensive ships I stopped playing in open and stopped engaging in PvP. I could not bear the thought of going through the massive grind again to get the funds.
 
So wait, are people really pretending that credits are all you need in this game?

Also:
The idea that credits == effort is laughable. Even 10 billion credits... it means nothing and is worth nothing except that you spent a week repeating the same mining run over and over .... Why would that be a good measure of being given a reward you apparently really value like a fleet carrier? It's not.
Lesson for everyone: working for a solid week does not equate to any effort!

When you get to the point where your opinion is validating your opinion, maybe you should stop trying to make an argument out of that. Mining is being rebalanced but you're railing on and on as if you're the only one who understands some problem, but everyone else just not being so irrationally disgusted at some vague boogeyman that is what you consider to be 'unworthy players'.
 
So wait, are people really pretending that credits are all you need in this game?

...but you're railing on and on as if you're the only one who understands some problem, but everyone else just not being so irrationally disgusted at some vague boogeyman that is what you consider to be 'unworthy players'.
Wait unti the 14th and folk discover how much their NPC crew will cost to resurrect :devilish: 😭😭😭
 
The fact that they have stomped on every single high-credit exploit, unintended consequence or whatever other non-pejorative term you care to use indicates pretty clearly that these are not things that are in their design for the game and that's why I'm fine with it.
Sort of. The things they've shut down have not necessarily been the highest earning things for credits/hour in the game. It's more subtle than just the earnings rate.

Mapped wing HazRES mining stuck around for years as the highest earning thing in the game - at over 100M/hour at a time when things barely breaking 50M/hour were being shut down - because it required a lot of practice and coordination to actually make it work.

People are worrying about losing 100M/hour core mining ... mapped painite mining earns 500M/hour so even if the market changes take 75% off the average gem price (and they probably won't) a mere change of activity will still let them earn as much as before. Except for the need to actually practice and coordinate, of course.

if you're arguing that you should remove credits from the game because they're more negative than positive in making the game fun because the way you get credits is usually boring and repetitive monkey work rather than anything thought provoking than do so. Dont advocate for keeping it around and just bypassing the purpose of it.
I think just not having credits and using some sor of patronage/reward model of giving players stuff would be a very interesting 'feature' for an Elite-like game to have.

Obviously far too late for Elite Dangerous to do that.
 
Lesson for everyone: working for a solid week does not equate to any effort!

What problem solving skills did you employ? Other than trying to figure out how little you needed to actually do and googling if there was some way you can macro voice attack to do half of the navigating for you in this hypothetical week long mining run (or trading run)? What technique have you employed that you learned to accomplish acquiring the thing that you are mining or trading? How did you manage to survive while still retaining the ability to transport enough material to make so much more money than other players would have been able to because they're not as skilled?

The answer to all of those questions will always be none, none, none, boosting away, spent more time doing this grind so your ship is slightly more min-maxed specifically to do this grind.

I dont value mindless repetitive tasks that require no thought that anyone can mimic after watching youtube videos. that's not effort when the biggest thing you are working against is falling asleep in a game.

I think there should be things worth mining, things that get consumed and are required in order to produce objects in the game you need as a player and can only be acquired by having someone first mine the prerequisites. I think those things should be very hard to actually mine without help or heavily armed mining ships by pilots who can fight off difficult pirates or make treks far outside of the bubble and evade the pirates that intercept them while trying to reach nearby bases to sell. I think all mining should be like that that....where anything safe would result in little to no profit ...the same for trading. Safe parts of the bubble would be where you practice...then if you want to make any real money, you go into pirate infested areas of the bubble (which would change slightly over time as systems change states) and you have to fight to survive to make any actual credits ...where dying is a real possibility even to veteran pilots. Pirates that retain a bit of a memory of players so that they adapt to repeated travels to the same place and become more numerous.

That would be a decent change while retaining credits. That would require strategy and compromise in both personal ship loadout and income and cooperation with other players if you feel like going that route. It would require situational awareness with the systems you are mining / trading in and where you intend to offload it ...rather than just looking up a stupid website that tells you the max profit to buy and sell and where the nearest source of materials are. That would combat inflation in an economy with infinite money and bring income back down to levels that the game intended them to be ...where acquiring the funds for massive ships or fleets of ships takes months and months if not years. And where extremely expensive items are extremely rare to have. Where people no longer dont care about money because they have an unending supply.
 
What problem solving skills did you employ? Other than trying to figure out how little you needed to actually do and googling if there was some way you can macro voice attack to do half of the navigating for you in this hypothetical week long mining run (or trading run)? What technique have you employed that you learned to accomplish acquiring the thing that you are mining or trading? How did you manage to survive while still retaining the ability to transport enough material to make so much more money than other players would have been able to because they're not as skilled?

The answer to all of those questions will always be none, none, none, boosting away, spent more time doing this grind so your ship is slightly more min-maxed specifically to do this grind.

I dont value mindless repetitive tasks that require no thought that anyone can mimic after watching youtube videos. that's not effort when the biggest thing you are working against is falling asleep in a game.

I think there should be things worth mining, things that get consumed and are required in order to produce objects in the game you need as a player and can only be acquired by having someone first mine the prerequisites. I think those things should be very hard to actually mine without help or heavily armed mining ships by pilots who can fight off difficult pirates or make treks far outside of the bubble and evade the pirates that intercept them while trying to reach nearby bases to sell. I think all mining should be like that that....where anything safe would result in little to no profit ...the same for trading. Safe parts of the bubble would be where you practice...then if you want to make any real money, you go into pirate infested areas of the bubble (which would change slightly over time as systems change states) and you have to fight to survive to make any actual credits ...where dying is a real possibility even to veteran pilots. Pirates that retain a bit of a memory of players so that they adapt to repeated travels to the same place and become more numerous.

That would be a decent change while retaining credits. That would require strategy and compromise in both personal ship loadout and income and cooperation with other players if you feel like going that route. It would require situational awareness with the systems you are mining / trading in and where you intend to offload it ...rather than just looking up a stupid website that tells you the max profit to buy and sell and where the nearest source of materials are. That would combat inflation in an economy with infinite money and bring income back down to levels that the game intended them to be ...where acquiring the funds for massive ships or fleets of ships takes months and months if not years. And where extremely expensive items are extremely rare to have. Where people no longer dont care about money because they have an unending supply.
It seems the harshest lesson that this game can introduce some to is that the game is not built specifically around what you personally value.

Mining is being balanced. You're yelling at the beaten horse. It's already being changed, so there's no real reason for the self-righteous tirade about how people who got credits through mining don't deserve them.
 
Sort of. The things they've shut down have not necessarily been the highest earning things for credits/hour in the game. It's more subtle than just the earnings rate.

Mapped wing HazRES mining stuck around for years as the highest earning thing in the game - at over 100M/hour at a time when things barely breaking 50M/hour were being shut down - because it required a lot of practice and coordination to actually make it work.

People are worrying about losing 100M/hour core mining ... mapped painite mining earns 500M/hour so even if the market changes take 75% off the average gem price (and they probably won't) a mere change of activity will still let them earn as much as before. Except for the need to actually practice and coordinate, of course.

I've never played in a wing and the thought of mapped mining is way too much like work to me, so I've never really looked into the potential benefits and don't intend to start regardless of what happens with pricing in this update. As ever though, your post is informative and I bow to your knowledge of the game's economy. I'm fairly well informed for an average player but you've probably forgotten more about it since you woke up this morning than I've ever learned 😁
 
Maybe it's just me but seems a common pattern in MMOs, though nowhere as obvious as in ED: Whenever it comes to effectiveness versus fun I quickly realize that the effective method isn't where the fun is to me. That's why I pretty much ignore effectiveness in ED, not least because even then it's easy enough to earn the credits I need and that without any form of grinding. Makes any considerations about effectiveness moot in my opinion, while at the same time stays miles away from what I consider good game design. The game is still brilliant, just not its gameplay aspects and so I always have to make things up in my mind to keep it enjoyable. But maybe I'm just too old to get modern MMOs or ED is too modern for old chaps like me. Which leaves me permanently torn between the freedom ED has to offer and the price for that: its shallowness.
Indeed where it's is good it is great..... But where it is flawed it really is flawed imo.

Over all ED is a great title, it has stolen 2000 hrs of my life, worn out a facial insert of my oculus rift, worn out an x55 hotas throttle and wowed me more than any other game

But just imagine how good then it would be with a balanced economy, missions which worked properly , game mechanics which are consistent and mesh with the lore as well as more care taken on hiding the games tricks and cheats behind the curtain to keep the 4th wall more intact.
That early Dev diary where David Braben waxed lyrical about the importance of no 1 activity standing out from any other activity , and he even used mining as the example of what NOT to pay to much.

Come the new.era.update I hope the game gets completly rebalanced with more care.spent on building the economy and BGS with some proper supply and demand chains etc. IF they happens it may be time to wipe.my save again.... If not I may have.to admit defeat and just use it as.a.giant sand pit to tool around in and blow my ships up. But what a wasted potential that would be.
 
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