Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage

TEBORI

TEBORI
@Space Mage

maybe you dont know but the Galactic Academy was featured in one of the last official frontier newsletter. and its still a official frontier discord. the only one afaik. :)
 

Sir Ganksalot

Sir Ganksalot
Shields Offline said:
Sometimes I see videos like the ones L'Intouchable posted. Sometimes I think about coming back to Elite more regularly. Sometimes I think about getting back into Powerplay. Sometimes I think about getting into PVP properly.

Then you guys remind me why I lost interest.

Now I'm not even sure this thread or the previous one were started in good faith: I'm now suspecting that it's just one PVP group trying to rile up another with an intentionally inflammatory post and the rest of us just fell for it and got caught in the crossfire.

Thanks for that, OP.
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You should definitely get back on and try PvP by the way. The majority of the community doesn't act like Akuma. The Spear thugs only occasionally drop in, get clapped, then high wake out and that's it. The rest of the PvP community is pretty tight knit and a fun group to hang out with.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Interesting read :) Well the first 6-7 pages were, it doesn't matter to the topic whether someone fights on one side or another & the propaganda here does not endear me towards those that try to make the discussion personal.

I have tried both & while my ship control is mediocre it seems pretty clear to me that a mouse gives slightly improved fine control (ToT) & is significantly worse in all other areas (navigating, evading, docking, undocking) than a Hotas, and both FA-on & FA-off have their place - flying full time FA-off is something to justifiably brag about but it is nevertheless still flexing ;)

What I see when I meet other players in the game, or watch vids of them flying & fighting is a level of skill, commitment and situational awareness that I can respect & try to emulate but have no great desire to, just as others may have no burning desire to play the way I do.

The controller choice, and flight assist, imo is swings & roundabouts, the commitment of the Cmdr to their playstyle is what makes them interesting to watch or interact with.
 

DanPCM

DanPCM
Space Mage said:
He was made a mentor after Frontier gave up ownership of the server, which happened after nearly the entire previous team of mentors quit in frustration with Frontier's actions. When Akuma and his like joined, the remaining mods were scraping the bottom of the barrel and would take nearly any volunteer. Akuma gets kicked from nearly any other mentoring discord since he has a reputation for being pretentious and aggressively wrong (as this thread shows perfectly) he has to either make his own groups, or joins those with such low standards they'd take anyone.
Source: was part of that previous team.
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As a former Captain of the Galactic Academy, I can confirm this.
 

Ozric

Volunteer Moderator
Ozric
Honestly, what is wrong with you lot? You were reminded and asked to discuss the post and not the poster, and to be nice to each other. Well done on once again showing that isn't possible for some of you.

This is the final warning. Any posts after this that don't adhere to it, will earn the poster a break from this thread.
 

Boston

Boston
How many times are you going to post this ish. FA Off is applied the same way to a user using a a joystick, mouse or gamepad. Relative mouse simply mimics the return to center that joystick and gamepad already have. It's true the majority of good PVP pilots use mouse, but there are plenty that also use joystick and do it with FA off just fine. No changes are needed to this. If anything, relative mouse needs a toggle.
 

Just Paul

Just Paul
TEBORI said:
The difference is clearly visible here. With the mouse I can easily and quickly align myself in the middle of the sun with no great effort with fine adjustment but with the joystick I deviate much further from the sun and it takes much longer and it is much more difficult to place the rail gun in the middle of the sun again because I have to compensate the rotations initiated by the joystick myself completely exactly with counter movements of the stick.

The reason that this is much easier with the mouse is that it supports the opposite rotation movements that the relative mouse offers and acts as a kind of stabilizer in FA OFF mode.
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Did you try the same thing with a touchpad, trackball, or any other mouse-like input? If what you say is true all these input devices should show the same "opposite rotational movements" behavior and should be superior to all the other input methods. Don't confuse learned over 10000s of hours fine motor skills and familiarity with some magic code for mouse faoff.

As said in the other threat I use a gamepad (steam controller), so I have both input methods in one. Normal gamepad and the gyro as mouse. With exactly the same mouse settings (pitch, yaw, RM on) it is easier to fine adjust with the mouse than the gamepad gyro. It has nothing to do with RM code, but with input device familiarity and precision. In the beginning I couldn't hit a coriolis station with the gyro and now after countless hours gitting gud hitscan weapons are not a problem anymore and using gamepad and gyro inputs at the same time became natural. I know people who fly faoff with console controllers and they don't have an issue aiming and hitting with fixed weapons. If they can do it with that tiny sticks a hotas/hosas user should be able to do it easily.
 

A C Ender

A C Ender
Turning of relative mouse with FA off is the same as removing the springs from a joystick. It works but because you have no centering mechanism it's a lot harder.

Joystick with FA-off is comparable to mouse with relative mouse on in functionality, as you don't need to keep track of where your centre point is. Joystick does this mechanically, relative mouse does this with software.

The fact is that mouse have four different control settings:

  1. FA-on with Relative mouse ON - Flight assist will try to make you translate forward/backward. While you move the mouse your rotation will accelerate. When you stop moving the mouse, you will stop rotating.
  2. FA-on with Relative mouse OFF - Flight assist will try to make you translate forward/backward. While you move the mouse your rotation will accelerate. When you stop moving the mouse you will keep rotating. To stop rotating you have to manually counter the rotation.
  3. FA-off with Relative mouse ON - You will keep translating in the same direction until new input. While you move the mouse your rotation will accelerate. When you stop moving the mouse you will keep rotating. To stop rotating you have to manually counter the rotation.
  4. FA-off with Relative mouse OFF - You will keep translating in the same direction until new input. While you move the mouse your rotation will accelerate. When you stop moving the mouse you will keep accelerating. To stop accelerating you have to manually centre the mouse. To stop rotating you have to manually counter the rotation.
Due to the springs in the joystick, it function essentially as case 1 with FA-on or case 3 with FA-off, with the difference that you will accelerate while you hold the joystick of centre, and stop rotating or accelerating respectively when you centre the joystick. With a joystick the springs will counter the -acceleration- of the ship rotation, but with mouse, if you play FA-off with relative mouse off, you will continue to accelerate in a direction until you have completely centred the mouse manually.
 

besieger

besieger
There is very little one can say about this thread... of all the balance issues, you picked something that is not an issue at all... I personally can name multiple people who are absolute gods with JoyStick or Controller, some of the Ex-Xbox crew of GGI and other groups even fight OP and trash him on the regular, this fact flys in the face of what OP is complaining about.


My thoughts on all this can be summed up in a meme.
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