Have you tried setting your power curve? I was finding with RM-off I was getting all over the place with micro movements of the mouse. which I why I set a small dead zone and changed the power curve.
Why Aiming in FA OFF with a Stick is a huge disadvantage
- Thread starter TEBORI
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Have you tried setting your power curve? I was finding with RM-off I was getting all over the place with micro movements of the mouse. which I why I set a small dead zone and changed the power curve.
You should fly with whatever mode you feel comfortable with. I personally find docking easier with FA-OFF, nothing about bragging, it is just more intuitive to me. I have never liked the way fa-on thrusters auto compensate, makes control much less fluid imo
I was trying it but at the time I wasn't certain what it even did. I despise any sort of mouse acceleration on games, as I then can't learn what size movement get what size input. Perhaps the power curve only work by distance - but I don't know. Once I learned about RM that was sufficient for me. The only negative I have with RM is that I can't toggle to FA-on easy, but SC I manage by using arrow keys for pitch and yaw. I might try and revisit power curves at some point.
i will just add to your well made post (which btw and once again, totally debunk OP's claim) :Quick one on a previous post I said that you need to 'get good at your own pace', now this is very different to the standard 'git gud' response.
I firmly believe that everyone learns at a different rate but ultimately you can completely get good with any control method you desire to... My first recommendation to people around control method is simply what do you find more enjoyable to use in our little space pilot simulator we play. You WILL get good to a certain level over time and most certainly will enjoy your time in ED. If you want to reach the 1%'ers well then that will take a lot more time regardless of how you want to control your ship...
So that's out of the way this is my two cents when it come to understanding the differences between KB+M and Stick control methodologies.
Ok, here is a little bit of clarity on how mouse controls work vs stick controls that I have experienced in my 3k+ hrs in ED.
I flew 2k+ hrs with KB+M. The vast majority of it 100% FA-off with RM on. Early this year I switched RM off then in the last couple of months have pretty much been flying exclusively with HOTAS.
Here are the main options that define how your mouse 'performs', yes I know I have RM off in this shot.
So each of the 4 options below reset mouse controls different aspects of control.
Mouse Sensitivity is pretty straight forward. The higher up the slider the faster your mouse reacts to input. Most sticks don't have this as default options. The rate of deflection is based on your physical movement of the stick. Set this to your own preferences.
Mouse Deadzone is also fairly well known. It the amount of deflection you need to do 'from centre' or rest before the movement is registered and acted upon. This is also a common setting for stick control, often used to mitigate creep by analogue sensors in sticks over time or micromovements of the stick if you rest you hand on it for example. Again I say to set this to your own preferences.
Mouse power curve this acts in a similar way to Joystick curves in that it gives a change in output of the mouse based on the amount of deflection. I have mine set to about 50% with means that for the first 50% of absolute deflection I get very little output, after 50% deflection it ramps up so that at 100% it is giving me full deflection as normal. This allows me fine control around the centre point but also to do full speed turns as needed. I always recommend this to be minimal to FA-off pilots if using RM.
Relative mouse rate - Now this is the area that seems to be causing the most 'discussion' shall we say. What this does is simply define how quickly your mouse returns to it's centre once input has ceased. The mouse will continue to add input as it returns to centre. The higher the slider the faster the mouse returns to centre, that is all. This is a direct simulation of the springs on your joystick. Some stick you can adjust them to be tighter or looser it the same thing as moving the slider on this setting.
That is it... No fancy mechanics added or taken away if you turn on RM.
The return aspect of the RM setting does not apply any form or counter rotational input WHATSOEVER. If you want to see it in action, clearly where you won't be distracted by people shooting each other, go what some of my YT videos. I have a control overlay that clearly shows my mouse movements and you will see many time that I move the mouse and stop. yet my ship still spins in said direction until I manually apply a counter rotational input.
So in this I have not experienced any difference in advantages between the use of RM or stick control in ED. Simply because there is no actual difference in how the game mechanics interpret the results.
Now I am totally against anything that directly changes the flight mechanics in ED. But I am all for more control options to allow people to fly however they want etc if there is no mechanical advantage. As we know there are some changes in thruster performances based on FA selection. If such a rotational assist/dampening etc was ever added the difficult question then would be which set of rules would it apply.... would it have FA-on or Fa-off rules? would it have a middle ground? would all 3 options have to have their current models homogenised so they all had the same rules??
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Doesn't help you can't yaw in the game. I enjoy Star Citizen combat so much more. It's much less "atmosphere in space." So I go there for combat, and here for exploration. Lol.
Yaw is the slowest rotation in ED but you for sure can yaw...
True, I also guess Staarlord hasn't figured out you can also roll and pitch into a maneuver.
SC is looking great, but the flight model is terrible, even after all the updates, the one thing holding me back atm.
100 % FAOFF is sexy and requires skill, however, but the right timing of toggeling FA on/off wins high level PvP fights in the end.
So even if FDev would adjust to these wishes, it would probably create a larger number of average hotas pvpers, with a higher chance to counter griefing/ganking and to overcome one or the other griefer/ganker, allow them to hit a bit more in arranged (ring-)fights, but it will never close any gap to the top.
Which can, if at all, be closed by training, training and training, only, certain skills and talents provided. Motto: No pain, no gain. Goal: Git gud.
@Donald Duck
fun with fa off landing and other non combat flying is here same important as dogfighting. this is NOT about pvp and never was also about your gid gud
fun with fa off landing and other non combat flying is here same important as dogfighting. this is NOT about pvp and never was also about your gid gud
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Yes I absolutely agree. My mindset comes from MANY years of playing flight sims and other flight games that control how FA-ON behaves. I have tons of experience in that flight model, so it just makes sense for it to be my main mode when playing ED. But like I said, when I fly combat, I toggle it on and off plenty depending on what I need. I just don't see the need to have it exclusively OFF.
What I don't like is when other folks come into it and start saying that FA-ON is bad and I should feel bad (not that you said that)
I do that with a gamepad as do others. Git gud is the way.
What's the point discussing about FA Off in non-combat situations at all? I mean, whether one learns it or not. I know some Cmdrs who fly 100 % FA Off with HOTAS and did never complain about anything.
Even with standard equipment like T16000 or so, besides not being 16 year olds with 15.5 years of digital lifestyle.Personally, I tried and failed, but I also happened to see a commercial from 2018 about self-driving "Tesla" cars, so I thought, why not use FA On for parking in 33 - Oh - Something?
EDIT: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/pvp-is-a-joke.550207/post-8580851
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Deleted member 121570
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What's the point discussing about FA Off in non-combat situations at all? I mean, whether one learns it or not. I know some Cmdrs who fly 100 % FA Off with HOTAS and did never complain about anything.
Personally, I tried and failed, but I also happened to see a commercial from 2018 about self-driving "Tesla" cars, so I thought, why not use FA On for parking in 33 - Oh - Something?
EDIT: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/pvp-is-a-joke.550207/post-8580851
Cos it's useful outside combat too?
FAoff isn't just for pewpew.
In the context of the thread tho - quite right - s'about aiming and handy tools for them that want/need em. Things did get all-encompassing somewhat!
I'm standard method for landing these days is to Boost towards the landing pad then use FA OFF to turn around so I'm facing the correct way. Saves alot of time.Cos it's useful outside combat too?
FAoff isn't just for pewpew.
In the context of the thread tho - quite right - s'about aiming and handy tools for them that want/need em. Things did get all-encompassing somewhat!
Yes there is, just add an option to preserve rotation auto-stabilization in FA OFF. Just an option, same as mouse relative motion option.
But if you go to first page of this thread you will find that Fdev ruled this out. Why? Don't know.
I wonder if this works looks promising, not tried as of yet
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/p55u6o/psa_nononsense_tutorial_to_set_up_joystick/
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/p55u6o/psa_nononsense_tutorial_to_set_up_joystick/
Not true. The relative mouse position setting is what makes all the difference — there is no stabilization being done by "the cmdr." You simply move the mouse, and that's it. You're not countering anything; you're just mindlessly following your target. With a stick, on the other hand, you actually have to compensate for every movement.
Still not convinced? Try it yourself. Still think it's not true? Then tell me — how many PVPers do you see not using a mouse with the aforementioned setting?
You just like to think you're good with it — or maybe you're afraid of losing your advantage, God forbid that ever happens.
Not true.
If you push the mouse up in FAoff with rel. mouse on, you start to pitch up. This rotation won't stop just because you've stopped pushing the mouse upwards. You'll keep pitching up. If you want to cancel this movement, you need to pull the mouse back down, i.e. you need to counter the previous input.