verminstar
Banned
Anyway...what was the question again? Ah ye...git gud or go open ^
Why are player complaining about grinding?
- Thread starter lemny
- Start date
Anyway...what was the question again? Ah ye...git gud or go open ^
You're right BUT............
Gathering the materials isn't a grind, it's kinda ok.
BUT
You take collected materials back to engineer, pull the wheel of fortune handle, the spinners spin.. the roulette ball ticks across win or lose RNG.. and slowly the wheel.. slows... and... stops. What do you get? GAH; crap. That's it, back to getting the materials again. Once complete it's back to the engineer to pull the handle on the luck spinner... more crap? well, back to getting more materials.
Doesn't matter how many people say collecting materials is fun, having to do it over and over because of the RNG.. IS NOT FUN! It's taking something that is ok, and making it a grind... so the grind is actually a repercussion not of the act of doing something ok, but the act of being forced to do it over and over because one sucks at dice.
EDIT; also, two people putting in the SAME effort.. one gets a GREAT roll first time, the second player still rolls crap 50 times in..
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It's till only grind if you consider it to be grind.
I thought the point of the engineers was to have that little uniqueness.
You know, if peeps want that same same feel for every ship every player has, buy standard modules and dont go near the engineers.
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The OP brought up the subject. Did you read the original post ? Or did I state something you didnt like ?
That's also because progression implies measurable progress.
With RNG it is possible to collect a lot of materials and yet make no progress as every roll is worse that what one might already own. (Even if one is only aiming for 'decent' and not 'godroll')
Make the results fixed/adjustable and not random and now the grind becomes progression, you can start measuring how close you are to building a ship, and the next ship can be built with its own modules instead of having to cannablize parts because you only ever got one decent drive, plant, and/or weapon roll.
verminstar
Banned
So in other topics we told not to make credit acquisition a goal because it will literally grind us down...yet when it comes to becoming a digital gambler, its all normal to grind away at them? Talk about mixed messages so should we grind or not? Why one and not the other?
I do not hate the grind but the mechanics behind it.
- Certain items are common parts in trade ships
- I need to commit murder to get them unless im lucky to find it as a mission reward or a wreck
- These parts are apparently impossible to order...
- I cannot buy unrefined minerals and throw them into my refinery to find certain metals
- I can only find the odd metals in self-mined minerals
- Apparently someone picks out the rare metals from the unrefined minerals with some mysterious magic.
- Certain items are common parts in trade ships
- I need to commit murder to get them unless im lucky to find it as a mission reward or a wreck
- These parts are apparently impossible to order...
- I cannot buy unrefined minerals and throw them into my refinery to find certain metals
- I can only find the odd metals in self-mined minerals
- Apparently someone picks out the rare metals from the unrefined minerals with some mysterious magic.
Beg pardon, I read the topic as being about the grind and players complaining about it. Is that not the topic?
So I didn't understand your reply at all in that context.
One the other hand, maybe I need some more caffeine.
Because it often feels like grinding.
Many games offer some form of grind one way or another. Dare I say most of the games do in 2017.
But most of the time it's just transparent. In (e.g.) many RPGs you "grind" your levels while not thinking about it because you're questing/exploring/whatever.
In ED, many times you grind because you need it.
Yeah you could just mess around for decades waiting for that Fed rank to go up. Or you might want a Vette, have the money for it, and then are left with two choices: Don't buy one, or grind the ranks. Guess what most players do when then want to experience something in a game? Yeah, I thought as much.
That is progress, just in the other direction.
That's the thing, grind is only perceived as grind. Yet, in the world of mind manipulation which is known as game design, failure to be perceived as a fun activity can't be faulted on the player as much as on the designer.
Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals.
What I do have an issue with is: the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals after I have already collected materials or minerals, pulled a lever that should have progressed me, but has instead left me the same, or has regressed me. I then have to go off collect the same materials or minerals, only to come back and try my luck again at pulling the lever.
People that do this once or twice, win at RNG come back to say *it's fine as it is*, or *grind is in the mind*.. But the people that are still collecting materials or minerals for the 256th time trying to get a particular roll that someone else got in 1 hit... start to get weary.
That isn't game play. I don't know what to call it
What I do have an issue with is: the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals after I have already collected materials or minerals, pulled a lever that should have progressed me, but has instead left me the same, or has regressed me. I then have to go off collect the same materials or minerals, only to come back and try my luck again at pulling the lever.
People that do this once or twice, win at RNG come back to say *it's fine as it is*, or *grind is in the mind*.. But the people that are still collecting materials or minerals for the 256th time trying to get a particular roll that someone else got in 1 hit... start to get weary.
That isn't game play. I don't know what to call it
Technically, this is very much gameplay. Just not a very fun one.That isn't game play. I don't know what to call it
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i reckon it is more that folk want engineers to be more like engineers, rather than some enchantment monkey off <insert generic rpgmmo game here>
when i took my sports car (pre child, on a 1.5l diesel now
) for a bit of a tweak under the hood, there was not some random roulette wheel, there was ZERO chance of the mechanic saying..."good news, whilst polishing your ports and improving your airflow we got some crazy sideeffect that means your car wont show up on speed cameras.... I totally did not see that coming!. perhaps there should be a small amount of RNG hidden under the hood for the variance in the parts supplied (just like real life) but it should be fairly predictable what sort of ball park the mod would be in, and any side effects should also be predictable based on the type, and quality of materials supplied.
but this is not a complaint about grind imo... its a complaint about plausibility and jarring game mechanics where logic seemingly went out of the window because "videogame".
Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals.
What I do have an issue with is: the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals after I have already collected materials or minerals, pulled a lever that should have progressed me, but has instead left me the same, or has regressed me. I then have to go off collect the same materials or minerals, only to come back and try my luck again at pulling the lever.
People that do this once or twice, win at RNG come back to say *it's fine as it is*, or *grind is in the mind*.. But the people that are still collecting materials or minerals for the 256th time trying to get a particular roll that someone else got in 1 hit... start to get weary.
That isn't game play. I don't know what to call it
Ah, therein lies the problem, your expectations. Because the reality did not meet your expectations, you define having to play again as a grind. It is your expectations that are at fault. There's nothing to suggest that pulling the lever should progress you except your expectation that it should be so.
Don't get me wrong... I have nothing against the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals.
What I do have an issue with is: the accumulation or collection of materials or minerals after I have already collected materials or minerals, pulled a lever that should have progressed me, but has instead left me the same, or has regressed me. I then have to go off collect the same materials or minerals, only to come back and try my luck again at pulling the lever.
People that do this once or twice, win at RNG come back to say *it's fine as it is*, or *grind is in the mind*.. But the people that are still collecting materials or minerals for the 256th time trying to get a particular roll that someone else got in 1 hit... start to get weary.
That isn't game play. I don't know what to call it
Lottery system, luck based gameplay, time-waster.
It's a system that is the very opposite of what 'engineering' should be, yet apparently we are expected to clap our hands and pretend that it's all good and fun.
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Exactly. I expect my Engineers to offer me a specification of improvement even if it is say between 10-12%, as opposed to the totally random we currently get.
As for the gathering of materials I am quite happy with that, as it makes me do things I would not normally, such as mine for painite, rank up with the Alliance (who are they anyway).