Nods
Still want to get there though..
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Mama always told me not to look into the eye's of the sun But mama, that's where the fun is.....
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Why does it matter if some players make the game easier for themselves?
- Thread starter Zplintz
- Start date
Nods
Still want to get there though..
___________________
Mama always told me not to look into the eye's of the sun But mama, that's where the fun is.....
That's a shame. I intend to enjoy getting my butt handed to me on a plate by my friends, and occasionally handing them theirs
Be careful with this line of thinking.
If you're in a private group with your friends and one of them commits an act of murder (kills you for example) then for a period of time they will be forced into the all-pilots group - Bounty Hunters (of the human kind) will be able to find them
Be careful with this line of thinking.
If you're in a private group with your friends and one of them commits an act of murder (kills you for example) then for a period of time they will be forced into the all-pilots group - Bounty Hunters (of the human kind) will be able to find them
Only if the group's creator chose that option...
- When creating a group the player creating it can decide how the group will react to crimes committed by players while in the group
- The player can decide to either count only crimes committed against other players, or against AI ships
- The player can decide if a player who earns a bounty is either kicked back into the all players group, or can be kept in the private group
That's an update (to me) and welcomed news .. always thought it was rather dumb to force people into the all-pilots group if they had selected to make a private group.
ETA: Then as far as I am concerned it doesn't matter that some people will advance quicker than others due to (potentially) only playing PvE - this is also balanced by the fact that some players will be online 24/7 whilst others only a couple of hours a week. This game is not an eSport nor are there any real life implications if someone advances quicker, so whilst I am sure FD will take this into consideration when balancing things at the end of the day it really does not matter that much.
To some this topic is "life or death" but to others it's rather "meh" - YMMV
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No no - it's Yodelling Makes Me Vomit!
maybe it doesn't matter at all, because it´s really not an MMO at all?
they even said
1. not an MMO
2. peer-to-peer connection
possibly meaning
-> my sandbox is local anyway, download latest version from server every now and then
-> I beam up to 32 players into my "online experience" but the connection is peer to peer like "World of Tanks" plus Elite type gameplay
Speculation: It´s more of a client<->client connection than a client<->server<->client connection
Quote FD:
"05.11.2012 – Frontier Developments is raising funds for Elite: Dangerous on ... The game will work in a seamless, lobby-less way, with the ability to ..."
So, one might come to the conclusion that the principle is indeed "lobby game", just without a lobby because working seamlessly.
So again, pretty much like World of Tanks works, with a lobby. Or even "Star Conflict", but adding a seamless world with PvE missions wrapped around it.
no MMO-> no sandbox universe like EvE where everyone is there in a single shard, because there is no such thing like a "single shard"
possibly no balance problem because there is no persistent online universe at all. because of
"Elite: Dangerous wrote: ... List is used automatically to indicate preferences in match making so that friends ..."
-> you're "matched" with people that.. uhm, match you.
noob ships match noob ships
well equipped ships match well equipped ships
looks to me rather like WoT2 plus Mining/trading/exploring than EvE2 sandbox.
But then it's not PvP any more. It's single player, but with other players nicking all the good stuff and ****ing with your **** x 10k+
Speculation: Ressources are possibly infinite or the universe is so big that you can get ressources everywhere, so it doesn´t really matter.
I agree to this, as you know
yeah that is how I look at it too.
Speculation: I think PvP is pretty much "an option". You might do it for the fun of it but I don´t think it really matters.
Welcome to the club.
On the other hand, it´s still original Elite with better graphics and "online option" to do stuff.. with friends.
Yeah maybe the whole multiplayer thing was more of a "bonus idea"(?) to add to the single player Elite experience. I think I can live with it now that massive multiplayer sandbox does not exactly reside at the core of the concept.
Already went through the stages
1. denial
2. angry (forum posts)
3. bargaining (proposing alternative multiplayer concepts)
4. depression
5. acceptance (-> here I am now)
The best thing is, to view ED as "Elite 4" (which is still awesome and amazing) and not thinking too much about "massive multiplayer sandbox", after all it won´t be an "EvE 2" like sandbox with joysticks:
Sandro Sammarco said:
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Your post on the whole I agreed with (
) other than this - there is a persistent universe online that you can interface with - Log off and the universe will still update - players will still affect it - events will still run - and when you log back in again your data will be sync'd with the servers. Exactly what runs locally and how much traffic is required client <--> server remains to be seen.
Kind of reminds me of our guild when warcraft started. Most of us were friends from Everquest and had been very hard core raiders but we also enjoyed levelling up as groups and chatting, but we had a few players join us who wanted to blast away levelling up their chars so they could raid as soon as possible.
They left our guild in the end as they thought we did not want to raid and had power levelled themselves up missing out huge chunks of game content which was not as much fun or a challenge if returned to as a high level char.
Needless to say we noted with some smug satisfaction that after a few months they had nothing to do until the next expansion and ended up cancelling their subscriptions or forever bleating about blizzards lack of end content.
Whatever the game you will always find people who are hell bent of reaching what they perceive to be the top of the game and having the best gear. They are normally the people who will be able to tell you the exact percentage chance of a mob dropping certain types of loot and exactly which tactics work on a given target, and seem to enjoy telling all and sundrie how to play the game. In other lives they would probably be the types of people who collected every stamp in a given set, every engine number when they went train spotting.
Does it mater? hell no thats life and its made up of all kinds of people. I used to race an old dinghy and some people i raced changed sails once a month as they thought it made them quicker. Did it bother me? No I felt good for the sail makers making money out of them.
H
They left our guild in the end as they thought we did not want to raid and had power levelled themselves up missing out huge chunks of game content which was not as much fun or a challenge if returned to as a high level char.
Needless to say we noted with some smug satisfaction that after a few months they had nothing to do until the next expansion and ended up cancelling their subscriptions or forever bleating about blizzards lack of end content.
Whatever the game you will always find people who are hell bent of reaching what they perceive to be the top of the game and having the best gear. They are normally the people who will be able to tell you the exact percentage chance of a mob dropping certain types of loot and exactly which tactics work on a given target, and seem to enjoy telling all and sundrie how to play the game. In other lives they would probably be the types of people who collected every stamp in a given set, every engine number when they went train spotting.
Does it mater? hell no thats life and its made up of all kinds of people. I used to race an old dinghy and some people i raced changed sails once a month as they thought it made them quicker. Did it bother me? No I felt good for the sail makers making money out of them.
H
Your post on the whole I agreed with (
"Persistent online universe" would be misleading.
What people usually think this means
- 1 persistent online universe
- Whoever logs in, is there and always visible to everyone else
- High concurrent user numbers possible (e.g. EvE had 65 000 concurrent online users and you could theoretically meet them all at the same time during gameplay)
e.g. who ever logs in and orbits around Planet X, is there and visible to everyone and you are free to interact like you want (governed by NPCs of course)
To me a persistent universe does not have multiple, customizable "dimensions" or "layers" (which in fact the grouping concept is, in ED you are playing in your own personal dimension of the universe, where other people do exist or don´t exist, depending on filter settings.)
Again -> World of Tanks.
I can play on a map with 32 players, but so do 10.000+ others, but they are all on their own, secluded instance of the same map.
Is a map of "World of Tanks" a persistent online world? Nope. Same goes for ED.
.
So, to give my new view on this topic:
In the current concept, it doesn´t matter if people make the game easier because
a) there is no real player competition, there is no territory control like in EvE, you can´t "own" of "rule" anything, so no one can use any unfair advantages either
b) If you suck at playing Elite, you will only be matched with people who suck at playing Elite
c) Doing PvP or not doing PvP won´t have much of an impact either on your progression or anything else that matters (apart from some achievments maybe, counting towards your rank)
.
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Oh I know. We'll go alliance or modify settings if we want to avoid that, or if not stay out of jurisdictions with consequencesBe careful with this line of thinking.
If you're in a private group with your friends and one of them commits an act of murder (kills you for example) then for a period of time they will be forced into the all-pilots group - Bounty Hunters (of the human kind) will be able to find them
edit: although that last option may result in us getting our butts handed to us by the NPC denizens.
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Is that the "Everyone must play with me whether they like it or not" position? I'm not being facetious, I am genuinely unsure what you mean. But don't worry about it.
Everything is this "path of least resistance" compared to Ironman. No I'm not concerned about it. I think it's a straw man argument (and I already covered it in post #21). If people felt compelled to take the path of least resistance there would be no call for Ironman, no levels of difficulty to choose in games like Civ...
I suspect the type of person who is so concerned that others aren't finding the game as hard as he wants is not the type I want to play with - level playing field obsession is for the likes of tennis and cricket, where it matters. Or a MMO territorial universe in which everyone competes at once on one server. It would be an issue in Elite if only some of the players had a choice of groups and modes, but that's not the case. We all get the same choice. This straw man seems intent on preventing some players having their preferred choice, or insisting some players forfeit Sim gameplay if they choose their preferred choice.
Which = some players get less choice than others. Nah. Not going for that.
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Hmm .. that's not what I thought of as POU:
- Persistent - meaning when you log off the world continues to operate without you, which ED will.
- Online - well .. online is online, which ED can be if you pick that option
- Universe - meaning 1 world .. agreed, however WoW for me broke that mold when they introduced instancing to the dungeons .. think 5/10/25 man raids ... only ED will be 32 man instanced areas of space, and possibly more in stations.
We shall see come Beta what it's like, more so on launch.
@fromhell - Maybe you need to re-read the multiplayer systems again - you have obviously not understood a great deal of it.
Persistent Universe does not in any way suggest that every single player on the server will be visible in the same system/instance at the same time.
Like Eve, ED will have all 100-500k on the same server - Eve has trouble with 100 players in one instance let alone 65-85k and the majority of the time outside the high sec system you rarely see more then 5.
Persistent Universe does not in any way suggest that every single player on the server will be visible in the same system/instance at the same time.
Like Eve, ED will have all 100-500k on the same server - Eve has trouble with 100 players in one instance let alone 65-85k and the majority of the time outside the high sec system you rarely see more then 5.
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no, you obviously have not understood what peer-to-peer is.
unfortunately this doesn't tell much about technical details, but it totally sounds like WoTs system, or Call of Duty multiplayer (except for the lobby part).
maybe you should re-read this:
"There are no multiplayer lobbies, and the game will be played across many servers, augmented by peer-to-peer traffic for fast responses. Session creation and destruction happens during the long-range hyperspace countdown and hyperspace effect (which is a few seconds only), so is transparent to the player."
and you don't know much about about EvE either, 10 years ago persistent sandbox meant everyone is there on one server, at the same time.
also regarding "lag" in EvE:
3000 simultanous EvE player battle, yeah slight lag is excusable with that kind of concurrent numbers.
http://youtu.be/NRTmVr4pU8Y
(around minute 16 they zoom out to show how many players are there)
if you have lag with 100 players, get broadband Internet.
btw what's our peak player number again in ED in a single area?
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There really is no advantage if some make the game easier for themselves as this is an open ended game, making elite status brings some rewards, but the game is far from over, in fact it hasn't even begun. There will be more star systems then anyone could ever visit, and I hope enough 'surprises' in the procedural generation that no matter where you go, something new is sure to pop up.
So if the game is perceived to be easier for someone else and they make elite first, it doesn't end your game, and you may be a better pilot, but there should be so much to see and do, it won't matter, but for epeen boasting, and who cares? I made Elite and visited 10 systems. I am at dangerous and saw 100 systems or more. Personally I would rather be at the 100+ systems visited.
Calebe
So if the game is perceived to be easier for someone else and they make elite first, it doesn't end your game, and you may be a better pilot, but there should be so much to see and do, it won't matter, but for epeen boasting, and who cares? I made Elite and visited 10 systems. I am at dangerous and saw 100 systems or more. Personally I would rather be at the 100+ systems visited.
Calebe
About EVE:
- It's not a game where you can dogfight. Combat is based on slow maneuvers and using abilities, thus far less data has to be sent per ship than in a space sim with rapid maneuvers and where individual shots have to be tracked.
- EVE can get to that absurd number of players with little lag because, on top of needing far less data per player than a regular space sim, it also uses something they call "time dilation". If lag would happen, the server slows the whole combat down in order to properly handle it. Before time dilation was implemented lag in big battles could sometimes climb to minutes. If I remember correctly that combat was slowed down quite a bit in order to keep lag low.
I doubt any modern space sim could handle even a couple hundred players dogfighting, much less a couple thousand. Specially one that isn't supposed to charge a subscription fee, and thus isn't likely to afford huge, fancy server farms.