Did you check out the flyable demo before buying ?, I did because I'm really picky about FM's I think ED is the bee's knee's.
Why does my 34th century spaceship have no autopilot OR how do you accept the hyperjump grind?
- Thread starter sc_neo
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Did you check out the flyable demo before buying ?, I did because I'm really picky about FM's I think ED is the bee's knee's.
You mean the Netflix white Knights? [big grin]
Yes, he did. He knew all about the intended flight model before the game was even released.
And he’s been whining about it constantly for *4 years*!
Bounder,
The issue with ED is - it is multiplayer-only. To have most of the things you describe (or almost any more "realistic" and fun travel mechanic) you need time acceleration, which is impossible in multiplayer. It seems that current travel mechanics are just one of many compromises they had to make for multiplayer to work...
The issue with ED is - it is multiplayer-only. To have most of the things you describe (or almost any more "realistic" and fun travel mechanic) you need time acceleration, which is impossible in multiplayer. It seems that current travel mechanics are just one of many compromises they had to make for multiplayer to work...
Take it or leave it I guess.
This is quite right. My pilot hasn’t made it out to Colonia yet, or anywhere very far outside the bubble, because getting there is boring. Some commanders are cut out for the trip — mine doesn’t seem to be. But if I could just push a button and be on the other side of the galaxy, things would feel very small.
Fleet carriers may change things. Who knows?
But this thread is funny in another way. The same people who are outraged that travel is too safe would be quite outraged if it were more dangerous than it currently is and that loss of concentration in a hyper jump could result in the loss of a ship.
There's no win on this topic no matter what gets iterated, like many Elite topics. One CMDR's integral feature is another's most hated grindstone or wall. Too many people expecting too many diverging experiences from the game, in terms of travel especially.
Personally I'm of the mindset that long-distance travel should be an enduro run, even though it's not really my thing. Finally did the Palin run and it was not my favourite time of the game, though I didn't feel I wanted to tear out my eyes or anything that dramatic. I saw some neat systems and almost cooked myself to death jumping inbetween close binary stars but other than that Ima stay in the bubble where more things exist for my playstyle and travel preferences. If there's something out there that's too far for me travel-wise, IDW shrink the galaxy in various ways so that I can then experience it; that feels like a really cheap "solution" to imo a pebcak issue.
There are new explo mechanics on the way, so they may inject some draw to the deep black for me, but this also dovetails with my additive development ideas about most areas of Elite. I don't want to automate, edit, or speed up Elite as much as I want there to be more to do in those "downtime" phases of the game. Like Supercruise, I'd rather there were more available activities and active-input decisions instead of just making it work faster or by itself.
There's a line between wasting the galaxy because it's so big that it's tedious to get anywhere really far, and wasting it by shrinking it to a bunch of easily-accessible locations with excessive fast-tracking. IDK where the good breakpoint is between these two wastes, however.
You are forced to the left. Turn to page 46.
I guess some people have a Fear of Missing Out — is there a party at Beagle Point? A rave in Colonia? A convention at Sag A? But the truth is that all the basic game mechanics are available without doing more than about 3 jumps. If you want the sense of achievement of making a long trip then the game lets you have that. If you want to find a trading route or someone to hunt down or anything like that, then no one is forcing you to make a long trip. Hyperspace jumps are mostly safe, except when you really aren’t paying attention.
Instant travel anywhere would simply make no region special at all. That’s the truth. There’s nothing different enough about Colonia at any level other than the fact that it takes an act of will to get there. Unless that’s where all the narrative content is and no one is telling us..... ;-)
It’s not my favourite mechanic in the game — but I think it is really as good as it could be. I struggle to see how to make it better.
One day, I might make it to Beagle point. The multiplayer would have to be a bit better for me to want to do that, because I’d want to do it as part of an expedition. But until then — well. It’s just an item on the Bucket List.
The Palin run I dreaded. But actually, like mining fornone of the others, it encouraged me to appreciate new aspects of the game, even if they aren’t ones that have kept my interest long term.
Less alt+tab to watch youtube.
Right, because manually jumping thousands of light years is what defines the game and if you don't like that, you don't like the game.
What the hell would you know, you haven't played the game since 2.1 dropped, you are totally irrelevant to any discussions on the current status of the game
I can confirm that exploration is still screenshots, honks and pressing <input for hyperjump>. He's relevant now.
I am a combat oriented player. Prior to engineers I did the Robigo slave missions because I finally had a activity that had a risk / reward / excitement factor and it was really only the non combat activity that hooked me in. Two months later however and a few thousand jumps later I was burnt out to the point where I walked away for two years. I've come back the past three months and I enjoy myself immensely, but I learned my lessons and I stay away from what drives me away from the game. Hyper-Jumping. After doing this for extended periods of time you start to realize that the majority of your play time becomes loading screens and it puts me into a mental disconnect mode where I just ask myself what the hell I'm putting myself through.
I avoid what is my grind and I do the things I like, I haven't left my home system for over a month and I haven't been happier. Bounty hunting and cz massacre missions keep me entertained. Ill have to jump out eventually for engineers etc but I don't mind a break. I've always wanted to go exploring and trading and to expand my game-play loop in elite but when I start jumping and traveling it gets old for me super fast. I also feel like if there were no time penalty to travel the game would get shallow quick as instant gratification in what you want to do might make what you want to do burn out quicker and then there's nothing left and you leave for something else for awhile. Its a tough call because its a different vibe for everyone, and ultimately it sets / adds to the pace of the game and makes things a serious consideration, anything involving travel becomes a commitment to your time and you have to accept the fact that the majority of your play session becomes it. I don't have much time to play anymore a few hours a week at this point, but I'm not committing a entire nights worth of play session to just getting to where I want to go to try new things and the reality is I spend my night watching loading animations.
Not sure what the solution is, because I realize this mechanic adds weight and consequence to the game and for people with more time, or who don't mind the way the mechanic is implemented makes going somewhere far a milestone, it took you effort and devotion to cross great distances and that's part of what adds to the scale of ed for me. So as much as I want to say, anything to speed up the travel process would be good (For me), I balk and think maybe if they did though, it would throw off the balance for what content and pacing the game has and it would be less than the sum of its parts than it is now. Just some ramblings on the subject I wanted to share because it is a thing that can turn me off completely from the game. Respect for Explorer's, I read about the passion and the fun involved in it, and I fantasize about being able to unlock Palin, travel 25k lys and spend 3 months in the black, but when I think about the number of jumps and loading screens and time that entails, It destroys any motivation I build up for it.
I avoid what is my grind and I do the things I like, I haven't left my home system for over a month and I haven't been happier. Bounty hunting and cz massacre missions keep me entertained. Ill have to jump out eventually for engineers etc but I don't mind a break. I've always wanted to go exploring and trading and to expand my game-play loop in elite but when I start jumping and traveling it gets old for me super fast. I also feel like if there were no time penalty to travel the game would get shallow quick as instant gratification in what you want to do might make what you want to do burn out quicker and then there's nothing left and you leave for something else for awhile. Its a tough call because its a different vibe for everyone, and ultimately it sets / adds to the pace of the game and makes things a serious consideration, anything involving travel becomes a commitment to your time and you have to accept the fact that the majority of your play session becomes it. I don't have much time to play anymore a few hours a week at this point, but I'm not committing a entire nights worth of play session to just getting to where I want to go to try new things and the reality is I spend my night watching loading animations.
Not sure what the solution is, because I realize this mechanic adds weight and consequence to the game and for people with more time, or who don't mind the way the mechanic is implemented makes going somewhere far a milestone, it took you effort and devotion to cross great distances and that's part of what adds to the scale of ed for me. So as much as I want to say, anything to speed up the travel process would be good (For me), I balk and think maybe if they did though, it would throw off the balance for what content and pacing the game has and it would be less than the sum of its parts than it is now. Just some ramblings on the subject I wanted to share because it is a thing that can turn me off completely from the game. Respect for Explorer's, I read about the passion and the fun involved in it, and I fantasize about being able to unlock Palin, travel 25k lys and spend 3 months in the black, but when I think about the number of jumps and loading screens and time that entails, It destroys any motivation I build up for it.
I’m very tempted to record and upload some video of the proof of concept screen scrape and pixel processing I did a few months back to determine the feasibility of writing and autopilot bot for long haul linked jumps. The decision tree for this is ridiculously simple, which is unsurprising since we all agree it is a mindless, mind numbing process. (Even those who defend the boring repetition don’t try to say it isn’t boring and repetitive, but rather just state it’s a feature of the game that separates the casuals from the dedicated players.)
Anyhow, the pixel processing was pretty easy to optimize for this, and easily handles ten cycles a second for a 1600x900 window. (Why wide screen? To force certain UI features to occupy specific relative screen real estate.) I’ve not bothered to code up the underlying state machine that would drive the ship because that would take a good bit more coding and tweaking than is worth while, because the end result is simply additional credits, upgrades, and ships, and I’ve already got enough of those already.
In short: the idea of reducing the boredom burden to get more resources to play with isn’t enough of a temptation given that I jump in every couple of months, play for a day, get bored and go back to other games or projects that are worth the investment of time.
But let me sketch it out for you. This would use vJoy or similar to have an API controlled virtual joystick:
1. Jump into a system and you are facing the sun. At 1/4 throttle dive away until the greenish horizon line appears.
2. Use a “sensor square” of screen above the scoop/info test on the screen and any upper cockpit features. Some ships might have a cockpit support or roof bit that is in the way. But most ships have a clear upper area of the screen in which to align the curve of the green horizon line.
3. With the star off screen above the ship and the horizon line aligned in the sensor square, set 3/4 throttle.
4. If no fuel scoop UI element appears in 10 seconds you can go to #6.
5. Watch the heat bar pixels until they reach about 85%.
6. Dive to peel away from the sun. Turn for about four second and then just cruise at full throttle for twenty seconds. Avoid any bright pixel density areas, which might be planets or companion stars.
7. (We would be continually finding and tracking the target heading indicator.). Analyze the target indicator and figure out the pip orientation. Turn to center the pip. If not present our route is complete, but trigger “next jump in route” and check for target to be sure.
8. As pip come to center find the nav taget reticle on the main area. Center that up. You’ve been flying away from the star for enough time that your heat should be < 40%.
9. Trigger jump, watch for completion, then prepare for jump exit and return to #1.
Exception handling: the interdiction tunnel is actually easy to detect, and *might* be easy to beat in a ship with good handling. But it is probably safer to submit, then boost boost jump rather than risk an interdiction that rams you into a horizon or fails and results in a long cooldown.
The only other serious problem is pulsars, that simply require alternate pixel detection. Just avoid if detected and jump asap.
Travel outside of inhabited space would be nearly risk free using such automation.
I consider botting of games to be a demonstration of how poorly designed a game is: it is a kind of reverse Turing test. If a game mechanic can be easily botted then it is not truly engaging to an educated human mind, and consequently *should* be automated.
That FDEV wishes to insist upon certain behaviors in direct opposition to how reality works is fighting against progress. In twenty years there will be self-driving cars on the road. Whether or not *you* want to pilot said car or not is your choice, but the option to let the computer drive will be *assumed*. Automakers that only make human-control cars will exist, but they will be niche and specialty cars. And this is a computational problem that is several orders of magnitude harder than piloting a starship when there is literally thousands of KM of open space between a ship and the nearest hazard.
The decision is artificial (as in: it doesn’t make any sense in a game that mostly cleaves to hard science as best it can) and ultimately self-defeating. More competitors for this genre will appear, and ED isn’t doing a lot to attract and retain players over the long term. Those of you that love mindless repetition will stay, the rest will go elsewhere until such time that ED offers an experience with the time.
Because ultimately people are willing to play a game with hugely long wait timers as long as they aren’t tied to the chair to wiggle a joystick and push a button every minute or two. Witness games like Fallout Shelter, where a quest often has a multi hour wait timer for your team to arrive. People will play it because they can start a quest action, pocket their phone, the enjoy the little quest later in the day at their leisure. It isn’t necessary for them to tap the screen every two minutes, and it would be deadly boring if it was.
ED doesn’t need insta travel, and no-one is proposing that. But it does need an alleviation of the soul crushing boredom of *having* to steer a ship in order to enjoy the small moments of excitement at the ends of the trip.
I predict ED will eventually bow to reality. But it will only be when enough players have wandered away in search of enjoyment elsewhere.
Anyhow, the pixel processing was pretty easy to optimize for this, and easily handles ten cycles a second for a 1600x900 window. (Why wide screen? To force certain UI features to occupy specific relative screen real estate.) I’ve not bothered to code up the underlying state machine that would drive the ship because that would take a good bit more coding and tweaking than is worth while, because the end result is simply additional credits, upgrades, and ships, and I’ve already got enough of those already.
In short: the idea of reducing the boredom burden to get more resources to play with isn’t enough of a temptation given that I jump in every couple of months, play for a day, get bored and go back to other games or projects that are worth the investment of time.
But let me sketch it out for you. This would use vJoy or similar to have an API controlled virtual joystick:
1. Jump into a system and you are facing the sun. At 1/4 throttle dive away until the greenish horizon line appears.
2. Use a “sensor square” of screen above the scoop/info test on the screen and any upper cockpit features. Some ships might have a cockpit support or roof bit that is in the way. But most ships have a clear upper area of the screen in which to align the curve of the green horizon line.
3. With the star off screen above the ship and the horizon line aligned in the sensor square, set 3/4 throttle.
4. If no fuel scoop UI element appears in 10 seconds you can go to #6.
5. Watch the heat bar pixels until they reach about 85%.
6. Dive to peel away from the sun. Turn for about four second and then just cruise at full throttle for twenty seconds. Avoid any bright pixel density areas, which might be planets or companion stars.
7. (We would be continually finding and tracking the target heading indicator.). Analyze the target indicator and figure out the pip orientation. Turn to center the pip. If not present our route is complete, but trigger “next jump in route” and check for target to be sure.
8. As pip come to center find the nav taget reticle on the main area. Center that up. You’ve been flying away from the star for enough time that your heat should be < 40%.
9. Trigger jump, watch for completion, then prepare for jump exit and return to #1.
Exception handling: the interdiction tunnel is actually easy to detect, and *might* be easy to beat in a ship with good handling. But it is probably safer to submit, then boost boost jump rather than risk an interdiction that rams you into a horizon or fails and results in a long cooldown.
The only other serious problem is pulsars, that simply require alternate pixel detection. Just avoid if detected and jump asap.
Travel outside of inhabited space would be nearly risk free using such automation.
I consider botting of games to be a demonstration of how poorly designed a game is: it is a kind of reverse Turing test. If a game mechanic can be easily botted then it is not truly engaging to an educated human mind, and consequently *should* be automated.
That FDEV wishes to insist upon certain behaviors in direct opposition to how reality works is fighting against progress. In twenty years there will be self-driving cars on the road. Whether or not *you* want to pilot said car or not is your choice, but the option to let the computer drive will be *assumed*. Automakers that only make human-control cars will exist, but they will be niche and specialty cars. And this is a computational problem that is several orders of magnitude harder than piloting a starship when there is literally thousands of KM of open space between a ship and the nearest hazard.
The decision is artificial (as in: it doesn’t make any sense in a game that mostly cleaves to hard science as best it can) and ultimately self-defeating. More competitors for this genre will appear, and ED isn’t doing a lot to attract and retain players over the long term. Those of you that love mindless repetition will stay, the rest will go elsewhere until such time that ED offers an experience with the time.
Because ultimately people are willing to play a game with hugely long wait timers as long as they aren’t tied to the chair to wiggle a joystick and push a button every minute or two. Witness games like Fallout Shelter, where a quest often has a multi hour wait timer for your team to arrive. People will play it because they can start a quest action, pocket their phone, the enjoy the little quest later in the day at their leisure. It isn’t necessary for them to tap the screen every two minutes, and it would be deadly boring if it was.
ED doesn’t need insta travel, and no-one is proposing that. But it does need an alleviation of the soul crushing boredom of *having* to steer a ship in order to enjoy the small moments of excitement at the ends of the trip.
I predict ED will eventually bow to reality. But it will only be when enough players have wandered away in search of enjoyment elsewhere.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
4 years in.
Millions of systems visited.
The furthest reaches of the galaxy being continually explored and the boundaries pushed every further back.
I predict FDev will stick with their core concept and not change it based on a few people having a temper tantrum about not being able to leave their computer logged in overnight and fly halfway across the galaxy.
I’d love to actually bet you $100 that FDEV will change their stance on this in the next five years. Because the “few people having a temper tantrum” is really some people caring enough to want to see the game worth playing in the long term for a decent sized player base. However, most people just quit playing without bothering to explain why they quit.
My prediction remains: as the player base drifts away the FDEV team will change their vision for the game.
Or, if you prefer, it will dwindle away like Asheron’s Call, or Dark Age of Camelot, or innumerable other MMOs that failed to find the game balance that would keep customers returning.
But it seems you prefer the ED wither away as an example of marathon mindless repetition.
(Incidentally, for those who love the game as-is: what do you do for a living? Is your day to day life so boring and monotonous that the games you are drawn to also feature monotony as their “challenge”?)
I spend my days reminding myself not to use game preferences as character judgement.
Cos pointing your ship in a certain direction and pressing J is just like real space travel, right? And great ‘gameplay’, obs.
That's how driving games work. Just point your car in a direction and press a button. They do quite well.