We are at the "only fly in Open if you want to fly in Open stage".
It is very confusing to some.
Why I and many others will rarely play open
- Thread starter vanishboy
- Start date
It is very confusing to some.
You really just don't get that other people might find PvP, a tedious, boring, inconvenient, waste of time? Something we only engage in when we forget what mode we are in and someone else decides that we must play with them? That is what it is to me, inconvenient. You may find mining or other facets boring, that is fine. I find PvP boring, and that is fine too.
But since you are unlikely to ever see me or I you, I don't suppose it matters. I only go into open on purpose when my morbid sense of curiosity gets the better of me, and I want to find out if PvPers still usually ignore ships they know they cant kill fast enough or catch, and slaughter any other ship they can.
I really think they need to move the solo mode button to the first position. It will make it harder for players to fat finger themselves into open when they really should not be there, and don't actually want to be there.
If they would do better on scaling the police response depending on the attacker's loadout and the security level of the system, this could be much better.
Go overpowered in High Security systems. Make it really really tough for engineered pirates and griefers to do their thing in highsec. Spawn the police in within 10 seconds. And then scale down the response as you go into lower security systems. Let players that dont' want the risk plot courses that avoid lowsec systems.
The foundations for this are already there - there is already the police response and there's already some map filters that allow advanced route plotting. Feels like it just needs to be tuned. I love how EVE does it - you can feel relatively safe (despite the recent rash of highsec ganking) and still play in the connected universe. Want the best stuff/reward? Then go into the riskier areas.
Go overpowered in High Security systems. Make it really really tough for engineered pirates and griefers to do their thing in highsec. Spawn the police in within 10 seconds. And then scale down the response as you go into lower security systems. Let players that dont' want the risk plot courses that avoid lowsec systems.
The foundations for this are already there - there is already the police response and there's already some map filters that allow advanced route plotting. Feels like it just needs to be tuned. I love how EVE does it - you can feel relatively safe (despite the recent rash of highsec ganking) and still play in the connected universe. Want the best stuff/reward? Then go into the riskier areas.
It's already heavily tuned. The problem is engineers. And last time FD proposed a shield nerf all PvP groups were in favour and all trader dads were opposed.
Okay, hope y'all enjoy your immune-to-cops griefers. You get what you vote for.
I was actually having fun helping a relatively new player earn some credits in a haz res. I'd burn down the shields a bit on the tougher NPCs and let him finish them off. We were having fun until a couple more open squares showed up. One, an Imperial Clipper decided to open fire on me, so I burned down his shields to nothing and turned away. My 'friend' disappeared, so I decided to head home. That's when I was jumped. I did a couple of FA off boost turns just to see if the 'ol vette could bring her guns to bear. She did, but not for long of course. So I learned something, gave the interdictors something to shoot at for a minute or two, and decided to call it quits. No big deal really.
Yeah... Get rid of the engineering modules will make it more interesting
I like to be able to purchase a fully engineered ship instead of that ridiculous searching you have to do just to upgrade.
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Bah give atr guns to all cops. Problem solved. No need to make ganker life easier.
Ah yes, infinite power creep is always the best solution. I cannot think of any issue there.
Next up:"bUt iT wAs oNlY a sTrAy sHoT!!!!!!
"
No. I get bored of combat after an hour in a CZ. My comment was sarcastic and on it's own, apart from the argument we were having, could be taken out of context. I just can't fathom why anyone would play Open if PvP combat bores them.
I really don't want this to turn into a circular debate. I'm done with being called stupid for today. This thread is giving me irritable bowels.
But even in EVE it isn't safe in highsec for a newbie or someone who isn't following certain unwritten rules. Like he will have to survive until CONCORD arrives and eliminates gankers. Most ships from newer players won't be able to in a 0.5 system. Furthermore he should never use auto-pilot, but warp to zero and immediately jump. Next is, that the time to warp has to be as short as possible - my mainly used ships warp in less than 3 seconds, cloaked after a second and warp at 10-12 AU/s and have like 30k hitpoints.
I would be a nice target, if they could target me, given that I often fly with goods worth a billion isk in my cargo, if they would know, what I have in cargo, but my cargo is scan-immune - and then compare that to ships newer players use, with often not even 10k hitpoints and half an eternity until they start warping. They might feel safe, but the only reason they are somewhat safe is because their ships are worth nothing and their cargo is crap - otherwise they would be dead within a few seconds. But once they start to transport valuable goods, they will be prey and this will surprise them then - because they weren't used to be targeted and now they are. In the end they will have to learn the ropes or get killed - not that much different to ED, it's pseudo-safety in EVE's highsec, it isn't safe, they are just not worth a gank.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
To which would be reasonably added:
3.5 Don't moan about lack of players to interact with.
4. Don't moan about players in other modes affecting the game.
.
I have never called you stupid or even thought that. My apologies if it seemed I was doing that, know that it was never my intention.
Open does not mean PvP. PvP is never required regardless of mode. It's a choice.
Many people play in open that want nothing to do with PvP. That is the problem for PvPers. That many PvPers shoot at everything in open willey nilly is a problem for the PvEers.
You have people that want the social aspect of open without PvP, and the cumbersome and unwieldly to manage PGs are not really a good replacement for everyone. They travel around in a mostly empty galaxy and often forget, that in open, one must accept the possibility of PvP. On the forums they call people that shoot them psychos or other pejoratives. They then just leave for solo and PG to avoid the inconvenience and explain why they don't often venture into open.
Then you have people that believe all there is to open is PvP. Everyone exists to be shot at. When their targets leave open, they end up on the forum calling the first group cowards and demanding ways to force those people back into open be implemented. When that does not work they start demanding that PP or the BGS be gated, or that bonuses be added to open play in the hope that it will bring the victims back.
These groups clearly don't get along.
It's a cluster **** isn't it?
The only way to get PvEers and PvPers under the same hood is when both groups are mutually beneficial to each other. That is what EVE has achieved with it's player-driven economy. One side (mining and industry) produce everything and the other side destroys everything. And in between station traders, which keep the markets volatile enough to enable market pvp, so that even industry guys have their pvp aspects. Gankers care for a need for good ships and modules, putting just enough fear into players, that they want to buy better equipment and ships. And all are happy - if they stay for long enough in the game, to participate in this mutually beneficial game play.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
PvE players in EVE are "under the same hood" as the PvP players because of the single "game mode" approach. Given that ganking is possible in high-sec there is no way to play without the possibility of itsi-PvP in that game.
Well, I explained how important the existence of the player-driven market is for getting them under the same hood - it creates mutually beneficial game play for both sides, if they stay for long enough, to participate in it - which requires a decent amount of money and at least good skills in their area of expertize. Some like mining and do nothing else but that - they might complain about being ganked once in a while, but then again, if they wouldn't be ganked, why would they want to buy better mining ships with better modules? Without some fear put into players, they wouldn't invest into better equipment and better ships in the same way. And if they wouldn't the industry sector would suffer. And if there wouldn't be pvp everywhere with players destroying mass amounts of ships and stuff, where would be the ongoing demand for all that stuff?- All benefit each other in EVE.
With a good ship and following some simple rules the risk in highsec is near zero - it is just dangerous for people not caring about those unwritten rules. Even lowsec is not that dangerous, when you know your way around there - and of course with a decent ship, able to stay unharmed there. Basically in every section of the game it isn't too dangerous if you know what you are doing and have good ships and the skills required to really fly those ships, not just being able to board them.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If it hinges on a player driven market then I don't see how that would work in ED - especially as ED has no NPC automation of resource gathering.
Removing the ability to buy all ships and modules at Jameson's Memorial now likely wouldn't be well received by those disinterested in being subject to supply and demand (with inflationary effects and / or profiteering) in a player-driven market.
Same as with Open here - with no requirement to put the whole game economy in the hands of players.
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That view is why ED will never be a really interesting game in the long run - or just for space truckers. That player driven market in EVE creates so much emergent game play, which doesn't have to be implemented, it just happens to be, because there is this market.
Well, and inflation or deflation is not a general trend - some sectors experience inflation, some don't, and some even have deflationary tendencies. That is normal and dependent on supply and demand. CCP has a couple of economists observing the market - and they might advice the developers in case it would get out of hand - what basically means to balance sinks with sources. Like changing blue prints or creating demand for certain things or changing the availability of certain asteroids to balance material supply and so on.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Those looking for an EVE-like experience already have the ability to get it - just not in this game.
DBOBE gave an interview to The Escapist where he said:
https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/the-elites-david-braben-talks-elite-dangerous-and-space-sims/
He expressed his views on Guilds/Clans/Corps here:
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All cops in high sec systems I would say, but yeah ..