I would see a season entitled "The return and the implementation of the DDF"
This is not me who will say the opposite
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Why I regret joining the DDF and not a fan of Open Development...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
- Start date
I would see a season entitled "The return and the implementation of the DDF"
This is not me who will say the opposite
Hum, people are different I guess. The latter burns me so much more than the former.
Don't get me wrong, I have patience. And even some faith left. I think it took a large hit when the big expansions like Power Play and CQC had little to nothing to do with anything we discussed in the DDF. Makes us think 'that' stuff is a bit down the list. And remember the DDF was for the BASE GAME, nothing to do with paid expansions.
As misconceptions go that one seems to be quite persistent, if thankfully infrequently raised. I've no idea where it originated but as Jeff said it's pretty wide of the mark. There were a few occasional "heated discussions" among the more vocal members of the DDF but on the whole they were directed at each other and rarely at FD themselves.
Sometimes I think those who dislike the direction ED took are just looking for someone to blame, and the DDF are an easy scapegoat. But believe me, our ability to steer the direction of the game was minimal at best. ED is FD's baby through and through and it is they who deserve all the bouquets and brickbats in equal measure.
Now the whole "god-like powers" thing is another story. And indeed, having just looked at the forum front page, another thread.
As misconceptions go ....
...Now the whole "god-like powers" thing is another story. And indeed, having just looked at the forum front page, another thread.
god-like as in world/game shaping as god's do?
for my part until the source code is released on gnu i consider myself one of the world shaping gods (deus minor minoris that is) for ed.
I agree! What we got on release day was a functioning up-to-date multiplayer Elite without the Thargoids. Slowly the features of Frontier and FFE seem to be creeping into the game. I have great hopes for Horizons, and I'm sure what will arrive with it is recognisable iterations of the DDF outcome.
S
Indeed. Had DBOBE not done the "near God-like" powers sales pitch I would not have jontied up to the DDF level. And then I would not be quite so frustrated by the placeholders in the game. Having a feeling that stuff could be better is one thing. Knowing perfectly well that FD have designed a much deeper more satisfying game, and it is not there and they are concentrating on other stuff is quite another.Now the whole "god-like powers" thing is another story. And indeed, having just looked at the forum front page, another thread.
Occasionally you come across posters on the forum who are unaware of the DDA, and make what they later realise are rather naive statements about gameplay. "Well, we need more things to find, but apart from that exploration is pretty much done, isn't it?" Point then at the DDA and they come back rather chastened. There are folks out there that were not in the DDF but have read the archives, so are almost as aware as the DDFers of the wonders to be found there, but not in the game. I suspect that if I had not ended up in the DDF, I would be one of them. So whilst I sort-of agree with the OP, I suspect I would have been almost as disappointed as I am now if I had not joined. But I would not have the chip on my shoulder and the burning sense of injustice over the near God-likes, which would be much better for me.
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That's sort of why I feel NOW the DDA shouldn't have been public. Ironically I'm the one who lobbied for it to be moved to the public forum rather than the private backers forum.
I do feel the game as is, is a worthy successor of the Elite franchise, I understand if not everyone agrees with that sentiment.
Would you mind using this instead:
I think I agree with both of those sentiments, though you know perfectly well that some DDA stuff would have been copied into the main forum, unless FD hid it from us as well. And even then, a précis would have appeared (compete with errors and biasses, no doubt). Despite my continued grumbles, I, too, think it is a worthy successor, or will be in a year or two. There are lots of things in it that I have very little interest in, but that was never a problem for me because I (like the overwhelming majority of DDFers, I felt) was arguing for 'the good of the game', rather than just the bits I wanted. But I am saddened that the bit of the game I most wanted to do (exploration) is such a shallow placeholder, and even more saddened that Michael seems to have ruled out giving it any love ("it is solid") in the near future, other than the indirect love from landings: but that is not the core game but an expansion people have to buy.
Yeah... especially if stuff gets added in places people have already been.
I understand what the OP is saying and I can understand this 'loss'. As I've said this in other threads, this is the game that FD want to make, not the game we want them to make (not saying that the game is bad). Going to Kickstarter meant that instead of getting funding from a publisher who maintains oversight and control, the developers now have total control. So, it's not the backers that now have total control, like a publisher would. This model is all about the developer getting complete control to make the game they want, which they wouldn't get with a publisher backed model. People need to recognise the level of risk involved in this model of development for individual backers. (Not saying that Kickstarer is bad but it just needs to be recognised for what it is).
So therefore, due to this funding model, features can be unimplemented or dropped at the developer's whim. The cynical would say that the DDF is a PR stunt, though I wouldn't say that.
I backed the Kickstarter and have since pored more money into this game. Sure, it's not all gone my way but I'm mostly happy. The risk I took has mostly paid out in my way.
So therefore, due to this funding model, features can be unimplemented or dropped at the developer's whim. The cynical would say that the DDF is a PR stunt, though I wouldn't say that.
I backed the Kickstarter and have since pored more money into this game. Sure, it's not all gone my way but I'm mostly happy. The risk I took has mostly paid out in my way.
If this game is a 10 year plan, how many times are we going to need to start over and get those triple elite states again and again to not die from complete boredom?
It's nice they're going to introduce a lot new features, but the game is being played NOW. By the time they've got it all wrapped up, how many players will still be around?
And really, why can't they even finish what they've started. They said we would get more ships, well come on then! They gave us a passenger liner MONTHS ago, still no passenger missions. It's an Elite game without something like thargoids, why? And why do we have to look for danger, this game is hardly a challenge. NPC's.. do I even need to start talking about them? They are complete brain-dead. It's all so incredibly incomplete and unfinished. And yet they keep coming with new stuff. And guess in what condition it will be. Yes.. you guessed it correctly: incomplete! Again!
Delighted to. Sorry about that, not deliberate, of course.
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I did not know the DDF was for the base game...
I'm guessing their ambition has gotten the better of them...all too common in so many things. I'm curious how much of those DDF items will end up in updates to the base game and what has been shifted to paid expansion. MB did mention that they will continue with updates to the core game when they apply. I'm thinking something like ship crews will come during a season of expansions, but will be applied to core game and won't require season purchase. All speculation, of course.
If real life exploration is anything to go by, that can change dramatically with the ability to land on planets. Depends of course on what FD wants with exploration.
The player that cruised by a system and got a First Discovered By tag may have that, but what about the person to make first landfall, brought the first sample back? That should be even more lucrative.
It could be that Cook that found evidence for Antarctica, but others saw the coastline first, made first landfall. And just as famous (or more) may be names like Shackleton, Scott, Hillary, Nordenskjoeld, Amundsen, ...
S
Please, not more bloody tags!
![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
This is the part I doubt.
Honestly, I was not part of the DDF myself, but I did read large parts of it. Was this ever stated, that all the concepts would be part of the base game? Or, if yes, the first year of the base-game development?
Don't forget, the base game will still see some evolution. I haven't seen anything so far that would let me doubt this promis. Passanger missions, for example, will come. I am sure about this. And if they come, I can not see, why it shouldn't be possible to pick up passengers at space stations, even if the implementations is part of 'Horizons'.
And regarding Powerplay and CQC: weren't first tier NPCs part of the DDF and isn't powerplay exactly about them?
CQC migth be a new addition - but I am looking forward to it quite a bit, even if I am by far not the usual audience for it. It migth be new, but this doesn't mean it is bad. And many forum members asked for something like this, too.
By the way: it is not the case, that I am all positive about ED. However, I don't have problems with the features missing, but how some of the existing features were implemented. The relation from (planet)system states and commodities market, for example. I do not understand, why lokal conflicts do not change the request for weapons and combat stabilizers. And if those are forbidden in the system, their prize should rise at the black marked (which brings me to smuggling... Oh well...)
All this game mechanics are in game already, and I don't think, according feed-back mechanisms would be too difficult to implement - without the necessity to re-write the procedurally generated nature of the economy. ED could be so much more with dependencies like this - why not implement them right from the beginning?
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Actually, I dispute that. I think it was clear that the game that FD wanted to make is the game they described in the DDA. The one they are building is a little different, and that is almost certainly due to those nasty realities of life, like making sure you get as many players as you can, to provide the revenue. The game that is described in the DDA is not pewpew centric, but more balanced (remember DBOBE pontificating about all trades being equally viable), and is certainly not designed to attract MMO fans. Having hoovered up a large proportion of the 84ers and space fans in the early days, it was inevitable that FD would have to cast the net wider. I was, however, very surprised at how quickly they did so.
So I think the game that FD is building is about as close as they can reasonably get to the game they want to build as they can, whilst doing what they need to do to attract more sales. The interesting thing to see will be the extent to which they subsequently circle back round and add those DDA bits, versus carrying on down the road towards a fuller MMO. I suspect we will get more bits bolted on that Prince Charles might describe as a "monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbuncle_Cup), and that we might describe as 'not Elite' (i.e. like powerplay and CQC). But I have hopes, if not expectations that I will be considerably more happy with the game in a few years time, even if there even larger lumps of it that I am completely avoiding.