General Why I think Fleet carrier upkeep should be removed.

DemiserofD

D
Greasetrap42 said:
Nope, just need a representative sample of actual data to back-up your numerical claims.

You said you made a survey, then present the data. Or present someone else''s data, idc.

Otherwise don't repeatedly post made-up numerical info and state it as fact.
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Feel free to check the other thread in the main discussion board.

Again, I ask you; is 2 minutes of work a week trivial?
 

Greasetrap42

Greasetrap42
Since we are into making up data, ponder this graph that I quickly made up.

Zone A - Players that absolutely can not afford a carrier.

Zone B - Players on the threshold of being able to afford a carrier.

Zone C - Players that can easily afford the costs of a carrier.

Exponential_Decay.png
 

Greasetrap42

Greasetrap42
DemiserofD said:
Again, is 2 minutes of work a week trivial or not?
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I can see a sucker for late night infomercials... for just pennies a day!

Edit: Take a closer ponder at the graph I posted. Try to understand its meaning and why it is relevent to this discussion. Players may be on the Zone-B threshold for a variety of reasons.

Edit: "2 minutes a week" is the bare minimum required for the upkeep of a minimalist carrier that a typical owner that is on the threshold (Zone B) of buying one can afford. If they take a break for 6 months they might lose their carrier. A mediocre carrier (1 Billion per year upkeep) has a weekly upkeep cost of 19 million per week. None of this is an issue for a player confidently within Zone C.
 
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LCU No Fool Like One

LCU No Fool Like One
I don't mind the weekly upkeep. I just hate the grind for getting it fueled.

We have NPC ships landing on our carriers 24/7 what are they doing? Why not have them sell us commodities for which we have buy orders? I should be able to put in an buy order and have my ship fully fuelled up after a period. The more profit you offer the faster you get filled.

It could work for other commodities too, though you might want to block sales of CG commodities during active trade CGs.
 

Aurican

A
Trivial because the upkeep cost is not too bad in general. If you play...that is.

Annoying because...
1. Psychological blackmail to keep it funded. It is that little nagging thing in your head that tells you...play the game, play the game, play the game...Sure it keeps people in the game but it is not the "enjoyable" way.
2. Have to play the "suspend"/"unsuspend" game. Can install all the services you want, but they'll mostly be suspended.
3. Some of the services are actually useless, depending on location.

Removing the upkeep can still fit the lore.
1. Background NPC ships can provide enough "income" to offset the upkeep. Having carriers in populated systems is also pretty much where they are the most useless since there are other space stations.

What makes me happy.
1. Place to park/drydock carrier to make it upkeep free or make it a one-time payment, so I can go take a break for as long as I feel like. It can be inaccessible, along with everything on it.
2. "Auto-drydock" feature if player does not log in for some time. Carrier disappears from game until player logs in again.
 
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DemiserofD

D
Greasetrap42 said:
I can see a sucker for late night infomercials... for just pennies a day!

Edit: Take a closer ponder at the graph I posted. Try to understand its meaning and why it is relevent to this discussion. Players may be on the Zone-B threshold for a variety of reasons.

Edit: "2 minutes a week" is the bare minimum required for the upkeep of a minimalist carrier that a typical owner that is on the threshold (Zone B) of buying one can afford. If they take a break for 6 months they might lose their carrier. A mediocre carrier (1 Billion per year upkeep) has a weekly upkeep cost of 19 million per week. None of this is an issue for a player confidently within Zone C.
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I think I've figured out your misconception.

You're thinking, "Fleet carriers are expensive, and upkeep is a reasonable percentage of the cost of a fleet carrier, therefore upkeep must also be expensive."

The issue is in the basic premise. Fleet carriers are not expensive.

I'll say it again; fleet carriers are not expensive.

Getting the capability to earn a fleet carrier is expensive. Learning how to get a fleet carrier, to make money rapidly, that's expensive. But once you have that capability, getting a fleet carrier is actually dramatically easier than...pretty much any difficult thing in most other games. It takes hundreds of hours to get a top runeword in Diablo 2, for example. By contrast, I know of players who can earn the money to buy a fleet carrier in approximately 5 hours. There are many players who have not only a single carrier, but multiple carriers on multiple accounts!

So in reality, your chart would look more like this:

1654196047193.png


And quite likely even closer than that, because a fleet carrier will more often save you money than cost it. Just jumping your carrier instead of delivering a ship saves you over a week's worth of upkeep. Just storing mined goods instead of selling immediately can earn you hundreds of weeks of upkeep.

I maintain my statement; upkeep is trivial. In fact, I think it's most often less than trivial.
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Either there should be upkeep, or you should have to provide the FC with Tritium - but not both.

If I'm paying someone to maintain the carrier, they can damn well keep it refueled.
 

Riverside

Riverside
[Diplomacy] Carnegie said:
Either there should be upkeep, or you should have to provide the FC with Tritium - but not both.

If I'm paying someone to maintain the carrier, they can damn well keep it refueled.
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Just finished a 10,000ly section of my current route & have stopped off in a proc gen nebula to spend probably the next day or two mining to get back the fuel I just used & your suggestion is quite tempting ;)

I hate mining. I'll do it if I have to, and mining for trit is a reason to do it. And it is another activity I can do when the actual exploring gets tiresome, a change is as good as a rest but omg Plat mining in Colonia was so easy, I'd have 522t in an hour. That was pointless, just more money when i already have loads of that stuff. (I did it because I was waiting for Update 11 and it was delayed a week when I was all fuelled up ready to go as soon as the update dropped).

So... I suppose I'm saying trit mining should stay :) But make it as quick to fill up trit from an Icy ring Trit hotspot as Platinum is from a metallic ring Plat hotspot please :)
 

Rocksteady2090

R
Yeah would be nice if we got more out of the upkeep like a useful crew to keep it fueled up ..... even if the upkeep was changed to monthly that would be a huge improvement imo but I don't see that happening..

Currently carrier upkeep is working as intended by having some folks log in even if it's just to transfer funds
 

Greasetrap42

Greasetrap42
DemiserofD said:
And quite likely even closer than that, because a fleet carrier will more often save you money than cost it. Just jumping your carrier instead of delivering a ship saves you over a week's worth of upkeep. Just storing mined goods instead of selling immediately can earn you hundreds of weeks of upkeep.

I maintain my statement; upkeep is trivial. In fact, I think it's most often less than trivial.
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You are absolutely wrong. And illogical. Your own observations that you keep repeating over and over agree with how wrong you are.
 

Tividar

Tividar
DemiserofD said:
If Fleet carriers must have a persistent cost, I would much prefer to be based on something that actually matters, like how many Fleet carriers there are in the system, to force High Traffic Systems to clear out regularly. At least then, players can see the benefit of it existing.
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I'd take the option to set a Tariff away and instead apply a Tariff based on the proximity of alternatives. The DSS array should be looking at pretty much max tariffs as they're often the only game in town, whereas Tariffs in the bubble should basically be -0-.

Eliminate the upkeep on all non-default services.

Trying to jump into a “full” system should trigger any decommissioned carriers in the system to auto-jump to a random system within range (no tritium cost).

If you,ve already visited the system, you should be able to target a carrier in that system to initiate a capital ship vs. capital ship CZ. The loser gets auto-jumped to the closest available system. The aggressor gets fined in non-anarchy space. The defender gets system security support and so should generally win if no CMDRs are present in the fight. Passive CZ resolution should be on the order of 30 minutes. During that time both carriers would be fully functional.
 
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