Why I think player-driven slave trading should be removed from E:D

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Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
I'm not going to bother writing out my responses again, since you never actually read them going by this new thread.

1 :America is not the centre of the universe. Its 'not too soon' because slavery never went away and still happens across the globe right now, along with genocide, massive drug problems (a much bigger pressing issue in America right now re opioids bu not deemed sensitive enough), re-education camps, starvation, etc all caused by other people. The game reflects that reality.

2: Unless you have mental issues, you are not suddenly going to become a psychopath playing games. Shall we ban guns in game, since since casual violence might desensitize people to actually killing people? Or drugs, which destroy so many lives, which we peddle in game without a thought for the simulated millions affected (and their simulated families)? Is the BGS shaping the next dictator?
 

here_it_comes

here_it_comes
I didn't have time to read your essay @furiouslog, but your passion inspired me to start a new dedicated ship build. Cheers mate! 🍻
essay
 

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Bantha

Bantha
YOU’RE offended by slave trading, so that should be removed from MY game.

But YOU’RE desensitised to game violence, massacre, murder and drugs, so these can stay in MY game.

Who are YOU exactly?
 

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
Just as an aside, social commentary if you like. As our society develops, it swings like a pendulum. On one extreme a society can be racist, homophobic, sexist. That what they call 'Political Correctness', which is a fancy way of saying 'respectful' tries to correct that. I don't think anyone can deny that a society that sees gay men or women or people of colour killed for who they are, is a bad thing, This means an amount of political correctness, is right. You can no longer use derogatory terms to address those people, it's simply about being respectful. However, the pendulum keeps moving, it moves past a sweet spot and becomes problematic. I'm a firm believer in political correctness but I do know that it's particular pendulum will swing into problematic areas. They are areas less problematic that those that they are trying to correct, but problematic none the less.

I believe it's always good to ask the question, for example, 'Is it right that a game contains slavery?', that is a good question to ask. It makes you think, keeps us in check a little, it's a conversation. If you're not allowed to ask the question, there is a problem. But the problem we have here , is that a question isn't being asked, It's moved beyond that point from the very start and is in fact, a demand. We must remove slavery. That is not really setting out to have a conversation. It is not the way to get people to consider.

I only make this post because whilst, as I have already stated, disagree with the premise of the original post, in this new thread and the previous duplicate, there is a lot of kickback about 'political correctness'. I have gay people in my family, I have people of colour in my family. Their lives are far better today (though not perfect) than other people like them would have experienced in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Whilst I believe that only the demented could think that is a bad thing, I am also aware that as society tries to find the boundaries of 'what is acceptable?' it is going to swing into areas, where upon reflection, it has no place being there, though as I say, it's always good to ask the question.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
 

Nadreck

N
It's often claimed that game violence might encourage some people to go out and buy a gun (scarily easy to do in the USA) and start killing people in real life.

But I imagine it would be somewhat more difficult for similarly impressionable types to go out and buy slaves. I'm not denying that slavery and trafficking happens, but it's a lot less accessible to the average gamer.

Also, no need to drag racism into it. Whatever else you might dislike about slavery in ED (either Imperial or illegal), there don't seem to be any racist overtones to it.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Lorenzo Waringos said:
I'm a firm believer in political correctness but I do know that it's particular pendulum will swing into problematic areas
Click to expand...

IMO political correctness has a really tight sweet spot that is so easily overpassed.
And then it starts to affect ones freedom to express themselves. Or ones freedom to create content. Or watch and enjoy content.
I cannot watch Gone with the Winds - because reasons.
Soon i will not be able to watch The Shawshank Redemption - because reasons

And more often than not, we read about people that are subjected to internet mob lynching because they said that thing that did not conform with the current political correctness. So they are losing their jobs because they said a thing or even worse because they did not show enough support for a certain sensitive subject and not because they suck at their jobs.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
If we are going to have a game where our real life sensibilities are accounted for I equally have to demand the following:

Players must not be able to create famine or outbreak states with a system as starving or infecting a population for fun and profit is abhorrent.

Players must not be able to bring wars to a system. Self-explanatory I would hope.

I personally consider the sale of personal or battle weapons to civilians equally as problematic as slavery. These need to be banned (we even have non-lethal weapons). I'm not saying this to be facetious, I genuinely am against firearms being owned outside of sports/countryside management reasons.

Hatchbreakers limpet controllers are a problem too. A module on your ship that specifically allows you to steal from others after you've immobilised their ship. Again, real world sensitivities are completely against this.

My point here is that if FDev were to take everything that we had genuine real world issues with and remove it from the game, there wouldn't be any game left.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Nadreck said:
It's often claimed that game violence might encourage some people to go out and buy a gun (scarily easy to do in the USA) and start killing people in real life.
Click to expand...

Claims that have always been absurd.

Nadreck said:
But I imagine it would be somewhat more difficult for similarly impressionable types to go out and buy slaves.
Click to expand...

Plenty of personal and professional relationships are de facto states of slavery. Overt chattel slavery may have been driven underground in most of the world, but billions are still subject to varying degrees of unfree labor, and some pretty horrific parts of that spectrum are frighteningly common.

If I'm honest with myself, I have to acknowledge that there have been people who were as beholden to me, and as powerless to resist my will, as any slave ever was when it came to their masters. We may have been equals before the law, but not any law that actually mattered. And I see similar relationships everywhere I care to look.

Nadreck said:
Also, no need to drag racism into it. Whatever else you might dislike about slavery in ED (either Imperial or illegal), there don't seem to be any racist overtones to it.
Click to expand...

The racism argument comes from the idea that, because concepts of race have been used to justify prominent forms of slavery whose effects are still felt (and often quite blatantly), any overt depiction of slavery carries inherently racist overtones. I can't say I entirely disagree. Depictions of institutionalized slavery are depictions of a class of inferior people that become placeholders for whatever marginalized types the consumer of the media in question cares to insert, consciously or otherwise.

Ultimately, this is a game, a fantasy, and people would do well to remember that. However, that does not mean the offense it generates is not real, or that being blind to how others can perceive it is some kind of virtue.
 

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos

[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos
Northpin said:
IMO political correctness has a really tight sweet spot that is so easily overpassed.
And then it starts to affect ones freedom to express themselves. Or ones freedom to create content. Or watch and enjoy content.
I cannot watch Gone with the Winds - because reasons.
Soon i will not be able to watch The Shawshank Redemption - because reasons

And more often than not, we read about people that are subjected to internet mob lynching because they said that thing that did not conform with the current political correctness. So they are losing their jobs because they said a thing or even worse because they did not show enough support for a certain sensitive subject and not because they suck at their jobs.
Click to expand...

I fully accept that it will stray into problematic areas. But I'd rather be too cautious than have not enough caution, I mean, obviously I would like it to be in the perfect sweet spot and never move, but that seems unrealistic.
 

CMDR D Noize

CMDR D Noize
furiouslog said:
Video games have the potential to change a person’s behavior. I’m not saying every single person, and I’m not saying that you, the reader, are susceptible, but there is a lot of scientific research to support this. The American Psychological Association performed a meta-analysis of studies, and came to the conclusion that there is a conclusive link between violent video games and aggressive behavior: APA review confirms link between playing violent video games and aggression
Click to expand...

Also, slightly off topic, but just so you’re aware the APA released an updated statement last year saying that "there is insufficient scientific evidence to support a causal link between violent video games and violent behavior."


It’s a misconception as tired & stale as the idea that Heavy Metal makes people violent murderers and I’m sick of seeing it touted as “evidence”.

Right where were we...oh yeah slavery is bad, we shouldn’t have bad things in games, let’s make all things as politically correct as possible and oh won’t someone think of the children...
 

askavir

askavir
Lorenzo Waringos said:
Just as an aside, social commentary if you like. As our society develops, it swings like a pendulum. On one extreme a society can be racist, homophobic, sexist. That what they call 'Political Correctness', which is a fancy way of saying 'respectful' tries to correct that. I don't think anyone can deny that a society that sees gay men or women or people of colour killed for who they are, is a bad thing, This means an amount of political correctness, is right. You can no longer use derogatory terms to address those people, it's simply about being respectful. However, the pendulum keeps moving, it moves past a sweet spot and becomes problematic. I'm a firm believer in political correctness but I do know that it's particular pendulum will swing into problematic areas. They are areas less problematic that those that they are trying to correct, but problematic none the less.

I believe it's always good to ask the question, for example, 'Is it right that a game contains slavery?', that is a good question to ask. It makes you think, keeps us in check a little, it's a conversation. If you're not allowed to ask the question, there is a problem. But the problem we have here , is that a question isn't being asked, It's moved beyond that point from the very start and is in fact, a demand. We must remove slavery. That is not really setting out to have a conversation. It is not the way to get people to consider.

I only make this post because whilst, as I have already stated, disagree with the premise of the original post, in this new thread and the previous duplicate, there is a lot of kickback about 'political correctness'. I have gay people in my family, I have people of colour in my family. Their lives are far better today (though not perfect) than other people like them would have experienced in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Whilst I believe that only the demented could think that is a bad thing, I am also aware that as society tries to find the boundaries of 'what is acceptable?' it is going to swing into areas, where upon reflection, it has no place being there, though as I say, it's always good to ask the question.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Click to expand...

Good post and while I understand the point you're trying to make, I just disagree with your definition of Political Correctness. "Political correctness" is not "Respectful", that's simply "Correctness". "Political correctness" implies a degree of either outright dishonesty or some form of emotional coercion, it's not doing something because you think it's right, but acting (or not acting) in a way with the purpose of having others to see you as "right". Usually in the form of adopting some form of unjustified positive discrimination towards members of (usually) minorities or other considered vulnerable groups, typically out of fear of being branded racist / xenophobe / homophobe / misogynist / etc.
 
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