Why is being a "prey" of a pirate in open a bad game design...

[Rubbernuke]

The game I'm playing doesn't even involve a ball. You aren't welcome to my game and no, I won't join yours.

And yet in Powerplay, you are always playing, and if I see you I can't tackle you for 'reasons'? Thats a firm basis for such a feature.

All BGS affects all modes no matter the circumstance. Solo players still affect my game in private because their actions change the BGS of whatever systems I'm in. Grow up and accept it. This isn't a PvP issue, it's an issue you have with how players can "stop" you without being in open. Why not use their own tactics against them? Nothing stopping you.

I'm not even concerned about BGS effects, because like any sane person I know how the BGS works. I'm talking about piracy, just me, whoever I've caught and whats inside the hold.

This isn't a PvP issue, it's an issue you have with how players can "stop" you without being in open.

Please stop skewing the conversation with invented accusations, because I've not talked about any of that.

Then it isn't fair if you try to blow me up or steal MY hard earned cargo. It takes 2 to tango, my friend.

Then either fly off, trade somewhere safer or do one of many in game things, even in another mode. Just don't log when you lose in a pirate encounter, and not block or log in Powerplay if you chose to be in Open at the time.

I am educated on powerplay. It's just glorified "simple" bgs playing in a nutshell, and there's nothing you can do or say to change that.

LOL! Quite.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I can't understand one thing, Robert. Why are most of your arguments and opinions based on the fact that "everything is already done and nothing can be changed"? You don't want any changes? Maybe you are one of the developers working in secret? This is just my impression and it may be wrong?

I want changes - and I acknowledge that not all players will want the same changes - which is highly likely to result in the status quo. The same holds for changes sought by others.

Your impression is indeed wrong.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ganking has been hammering away at those nails since before the game launched.

Which is why I lamented piracy not having the tools and the game tuned properly to begin with to tell people apart, or, to be able to see a players criminal record to tell.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Which is why I lamented piracy not having the tools and the game tuned properly to begin with to tell people apart, or, to be able to see a players criminal record to tell.

If piracy was facilitated then gankers would use the same tools to immobilise the target. Basically, anything that facilitates "proper" piracy would be used by gankers (and worse). Then there's the fact that being subjected to the domineering and coercive play-style of a player isn't much fun for many players - which suggests that pirates aren't likely to find many willing targets in the first place.

 

[Havvk]

And yet in Powerplay, you are always playing, and if I see you I can't tackle you for 'reasons'? Thats a firm basis for such a feature.

Assuming I'm even pledged, which I'm not atm. So this is kind of a pointless yet obvious answer.

Please stop skewing the conversation with invented accusations, because I've not talked about any of that.

I'm not

Then either fly off, trade somewhere safer or do one of many in game things, even in another mode. Just don't log when you lose in a pirate encounter, and not block or log in Powerplay if you chose to be in Open at the time.

No. I'll do what I want, when I want, where I want and how I want within the EULA. This will never change, and the only way to make any of this work is to implement an Iron Man mode somehow. Maybe even have it active for ALL who are pledged to ANY PP faction in ALL modes? Even CMDRs in Solo have to risk losing their entire ship with no rebuy and lose all those engineering if there's any on the ship. Rich and poor alike. Harmless and Elite, no prisoners, no mercy.

Which is why I lamented piracy not having the tools and the game tuned properly to begin with to tell people apart, or, to be able to see a players criminal record to tell.

Again, there have been much better ideas than "Open Only" to making PvP have better inherent meaning as a baseline. Like Iron Man mode or fixing the C&P where criminal CMDRs suffer same levels of risk/reward and loss/win as the ones who are targeted in PvP, be it piracy, PP or just plain murder.

 

[MadSinUN]

It's one thing to know, as a player, that there are those working out of sight influencing the setting via the BGS or similar mechanisms. It's quite another for one's in-game CMDR to be confronted with an obvious hostile that is magically immune to harm.

To explain it logically, what would it look like magic is not very difficult. For example, if you link this to the choice of "civil license of the Federation of pilots". Let's say that with such a license, a module is installed on your ship that counteracts the FSD interceptor module and installs a conditional module that creates a very powerful protective force field. And now it doesn't look like "magic"anymore. I fully support you in the case of "magic" functions and want to make sure that there is as little "magic" as possible.

Full interaction that excludes the potential of combat isn't full interaction though.

I understand that this is not 100% complete player interaction, but this method fully meets the needs of "open Pve" players in Pve interaction. And will solve one of the most important problems for Pvp players, namely the possibility of "magic" blocking and "magic" ability to avoid Pvp combat in General. It's just that at the moment I think the situation is even more absurd in "open mode".

 

[Mohrgan]

The overall answer to the OP must be: Because no one wants to be the prey.

It looks like all the peeps interested in PvP want to be the hunter. The circle of life is doomed. It's a good thing we're only talking about a video game, or this might be something important.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Assuming I'm even pledged, which I'm not atm. So this is kind of a pointless yet obvious answer.

And I'm talking between pledges.If you are not pledged then I'm not interested if I'm off doing other Powerplay work.

I'm not

Well you are. You mentioned the BGS when I'm not talking about that.

No. I'll do what I want, when I want, where I want and how I want within the EULA. This will never change, and the only way to make any of this work is to implement an Iron Man mode somehow. Maybe even have it active for ALL who are pledged to ANY PP faction in ALL modes? Even CMDRs in Solo have to risk losing their entire ship with no rebuy and lose all those engineering if there's any on the ship. Rich and poor alike. Harmless and Elite, no prisoners, no mercy.

I'm not a monster, and I realise that people do play differently. What this is about is providing a consistent and complete game loop for piracy (i.e. pirate wins, trader runs and escapes or donates cargo).

Again, there have been much better ideas than "Open Only" to making PvP have better inherent meaning as a baseline. Like Iron Man mode or fixing the C&P where criminal CMDRs suffer same levels of risk/reward and loss/win as the ones who are targeted in PvP, be it piracy, PP or just plain murder.

I'm not advocating Open only everything though.

 

[[PS4] Lorenzo Waringos]

If it hasn't been said already, I think the answer to OP is, it isn't bad game design, it is partly the game working as designed. Being the prey however, is unlikely to be desirable, that is a different issue.

 

[Rubbernuke]

If piracy was facilitated then gankers would use the same tools to immobilise the target. Basically, anything that facilitates "proper" piracy would be used by gankers (and worse). Then there's the fact that being subjected to the domineering and coercive play-style of a player isn't much fun for many players - which suggests that pirates aren't likely to find many willing targets in the first place.

This is where the holistic changes I mention come in, as well as traders being savvy and not watching Netflix in a T-9 shaped cardboard box.

Players have the tools to know where they are going, who is around them and act accordingly.

 

[Havvk]

And I'm talking between pledges.If you are not pledged then I'm not interested if I'm off doing other Powerplay work.

Well you are. You mentioned the BGS when I'm not talking about that.

Did you not read what I said about how BGS and powerplay are pretty tied together?

What this is about is providing a consistent and complete game loop for piracy (i.e. pirate wins, trader runs and escapes or donates cargo).

How would it be done then?

 

[Havvk]

This is where the holistic changes I mention come in, as well as traders being savvy and not watching Netflix in a T-9 shaped cardboard box.

Players have the tools to know where they are going, who is around them and act accordingly.

Is it illegal for them to not utilize 100% of all tools every second they are logged into the game?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Is it illegal for them to not utilize 100% of all tools every second they are logged into the game?

ED is supposedly a game where you press more than the ESC key to fly a space ship.

 

[Mohrgan]

This is where the holistic changes I mention come in, as well as traders being savvy and not watching Netflix in a T-9 shaped cardboard box.

Players have the tools to know where they are going, who is around them and act accordingly.

And, players have the tools to tailor their game experience. A player can only expect to play along side others that have the same interests. The trouble here is not accepting that fact, and trying to internet-lawyer up some reasons for angst. Anything that can be done in Solo/PG can be countered in open, in either PP or with the BGS. No one owes any one game play.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Did you not read what I said about how BGS and powerplay are pretty tied together?

The BGS is limited in Powerplay to reducing fortification levels. Have the right / wrong govs in the right amounts and life gets easier or harder depending on where they are.

How would it be done then?

Go read my answers and find out here and elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Quit trying to gank/murderhobo and it won't be a problem

It's baseless accusations like these (which couldn't be further from the truth in this particular example) that make me seriously consider stopping being Mr. Nice Guy in-game and just go full on Walter White.

The continuous whining from the "lawful" side is quite frankly cringeworthy, and the seemingly complete refusal to improve your game and abilities in a MP environment is frustrating I have to say.

 

[MarkAusten]

@Rubbernuke & @Havv - Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't direct PVP the least effective way to influence the BGS and PP? I seem to remember (see previous comments about my memory, or have I said that already), I seem to remember that this argument came up back along and it was shown that player to player interaction had little effect whereas trading and security force hunting, handing in NPC bonds was a lot more effective which is why the trading Bots were so effective.

 

[Havvk]

ED is supposedly a game where you press more than the ESC key to fly a space ship.

It was a yes or no question.

 

[A C Ender]

If piracy was facilitated then gankers would use the same tools to immobilise the target. Basically, anything that facilitates "proper" piracy would be used by gankers (and worse). Then there's the fact that being subjected to the domineering and coercive play-style of a player isn't much fun for many players - which suggests that pirates aren't likely to find many willing targets in the first place.

The overall answer to the OP must be: Because no one wants to be the prey.

It looks like all the peeps interested in PvP want to be the hunter. The circle of life is doomed. It's a good thing we're only talking about a video game, or this might be something important.

This have already been addressed several times by people, myself included. Could you please stop assuming ideals of other players?

You know what? I don't like to be dominated or coerced, and I don't like to be prey. But both of you assume that's what we argue is "fun".

I assume you have both played hide-and-seek. The pirate/ganker is the one seeking. Can't you see why it's fun to try and -avoid- the one trying to find you?

I assume you have both played chase? The pirate/ganker is the one chasing. Can't you see why it's fun to try and outrun and outmanoeuvre the one chasing you?

The fact is, everyone I have seen arguing for why being the so called "prey" is fun isn't that "you get dominated" - it's "you try and AVOID being dominated" and if you play well, you will make the hunter fail! The fun is in -beating- the hunter by escaping! I've not seen anyone argue yet that "no it's fun to be robbed without being able to avoid it" - though I'm sure some think it is. Facing adversary, challenge, and overcoming it, that's what I, and many others, find fun. I don't care if I'm the "hunter" or the "prey" - If I defeat you in whatever role, it feels good.

On the topic of pirates "not finding many" - I don't think that's due to lack of people, but lack of concentration. If you played in open during the FC rush to mine Borann you would have seen plenty of miners both going for the rings there, and showing up in the highest sell station, all in open. There's not really a lack of people, there's a lack of finding them. Because the bubble is huge.

 

[Rubbernuke]

And, players have the tools to tailor their game experience. A player can only expect to play along side others that have the same interests. The trouble here is not accepting that fact, and trying to internet-lawyer up some reasons for angst. Anything that can be done in Solo/PG can be countered in open, in either PP or with the BGS. No one owes any one game play.

A player can only expect to play along side others that have the same interests

Which is why Open is too broad a mode and needs better sub groups before you jump in to play.

Anything that can be done in Solo/PG can be countered in open, in either PP or with the BGS.

Which is not what I'm talking about- its making the opportunistic PvP when it happens actually count.