Why is 'space legs' so technically difficult?

[-VR- Max Factor]

That's THE most important point. Without gameplay, we're going to play a very boring Sim Walk.Elite was created so that the pilot could do EVERYTHING, sitting in a seat. Why go to a bar to look for missions accessible on the bulletin board?

Why would you go to a bar to get missions? I for one would like to go to the faction representative and negotiate over the mission contract for reimbursement.

Basically it needs to add something different to what you can do on your ship. So the missions board on your ship stays the same as it is, but if you meet the faction rep in person, it could open up more options for you. Just like having the horizons expansion opens up more mission options for those that have it.

Having to find the black market contact in person could open up some interesting smuggling missions for you instead of the faction backed ones you get now.

There is a lot that can be done to make it a more interesting experience instead of doing the same thing you can do in your ship, but doing it on foot.

 

[aymerix]

Why would you go to a bar to get missions? I for one would like to go to the faction representative and negotiate over the mission contract for reimbursement.

Basically it needs to add something different to what you can do on your ship. So the missions board on your ship stays the same as it is, but if you meet the faction rep in person, it could open up more options for you. Just like having the horizons expansion opens up more mission options for those that have it.

Having to find the black market contact in person could open up some interesting smuggling missions for you instead of the faction backed ones you get now.

There is a lot that can be done to make it a more interesting experience instead of doing the same thing you can do in your ship, but doing it on foot.

Was an exemple.

That's the problem if this feature is added you need something totally different we are. The contact pannel is great for me, I don't want anything else.
Still new jobs, why not: journalist with interviews, find a contact in a station for a mission, find a reseller of second-hand module....


Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the Space Leg will be available soon. I don't think we'll even see it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Was an exemple.

That's the problem if this feature is added you need something totally different we are. The contact pannel is great for me, I don't want anything else.
Still new jobs, why not: journalist with interviews, find a contact in a station for a mission, find a reseller of second-hand module....


Frankly, I find it hard to believe that the Space Leg will be available soon. I don't think we'll even see it.

I don't think we will get it anytime soon either especially if it is to have any meaningful content in is. I am not 100% convinced that we will get it either. For me it will be nice to have, but I will not be disapointed if it doen't come as long as the base game is expanded upon and good enough.

 

[Hellakitty]

Atmospheric landings aren't gonna get much better than a different colour skybox and some wobbly bits added to the flight dynamics.

All this talk of plant life, waterfalls and other such guff is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I really hope I'm wrong, but realistically that's as good as it's gonna get.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Well, ex EvE player here, still very irritated that they took captain quarters away, I was really liking it.
Secondly it was not even close to what we concider space legs, it was more like our holo me screen with few basic interactions mostly used to look at ya fancy new clothes. I really cant see comparison.

Also as I said fancy new trailer wasn't hinting SL imo and I believe FD dont have enough time, resources to implement real meaningfull gameplay with SL at this point. We are 4 years in and no real info on the subject was presented to us, only small blurbs.
When they post real sl news in the newsletter I will get hyped again.
And if it gonna happen it will probably be separate paid expansion much later, I m ok with that.

Repped and I agree. While the recent Commander Chronicle short movie may have some elements that may be used in the future for space legs, I don't expect it for a number of years down the line.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Atmospheric landings aren't gonna get much better than a different colour skybox and some wobbly bits added to the flight dynamics.

All this talk of plant life, waterfalls and other such guff is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I really hope I'm wrong, but realistically that's as good as it's gonna get.

Maybe, maybe not. I try not to think to hard about what it will be like until I see more information about it. But if I suspect is true that the beginning of atmospherics will be coming out at the same time as the Q4 update, all that new exploration mechanics could make it much more worthwhile and interesting.

 

[NeilF]

Atmospheric landings aren't gonna get much better than a different colour skybox and some wobbly bits added to the flight dynamics.

All this talk of plant life, waterfalls and other such guff is nothing more than wishful thinking.

I really hope I'm wrong, but realistically that's as good as it's gonna get.

Well, atmospheric landings without all the things that would need to come with it (clouds/weather/storms/liquids/rain/lakes/riversand maybe overhangs?/caves?/aurora?/plant life? etc) would be nigh on pointless IMHO... And I can't envisage FD doing that...

 

[Hellakitty]

Maybe, maybe not. I try not to think to hard about what it will be like until I see more information about it. But if I suspect is true that the beginning of atmospherics will be coming out at the same time as the Q4 update, all that new exploration mechanics could make it much more worthwhile and interesting.

Don't get me wrong, if atmospherics of some kind gets dropped alongside or soon after Q4 even as a paid DLC, I'll be back into the game like a shot.

After many many updates of disappointment, it'll have to be something special to make me stick around, though.

Well, atmospheric landings without all the things that would need to come with it (clouds/weather/storms/liquids/rain/lakes/riversand maybe overhangs?/caves?/aurora?/plant life? etc) would be nigh on pointless IMHO... And I can't envisage FD doing that...

I can't envisage they have the talent and technical prowess to get all those things together as a coherent procedurally generated whole, either.

Hence the scepticism.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

Atmospheric landings aren't gonna get much better than a different colour skybox and some wobbly bits added to the flight dynamics.

If only it was "just a skybox", that would be fairly trivial, but as the galaxy currently occupies that space and you have moving celestial objects in the game space, its going to have to be a different and more complex implementation. Not insurmountable, but not a skybox as such. COBRA is far more capable than most people give it credit for, from what I've seen.

 

[lones2000]

properly working on it

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If only it was "just a skybox", that would be fairly trivial, but as the galaxy currently occupies that space and you have moving celestial objects in the game space, its going to have to be a different and more complex implementation. Not insurmountable, but not a skybox as such. COBRA is far more capable than most people give it credit for, from what I've seen.

This is the reason why I believe they have created the new lighting system. The colour grade isn't there for nothing. I think it's been added especially for Atmospheric planets so they can program in different atmospheric makeup and come up with a colour overlay for it.

 

[Hellakitty]

If only it was "just a skybox", that would be fairly trivial, but as the galaxy currently occupies that space and you have moving celestial objects in the game space, its going to have to be a different and more complex implementation. Not insurmountable, but not a skybox as such. COBRA is far more capable than most people give it credit for, from what I've seen.

True, PC and JWE are impressive in their own rights and deserve the accolades for their technical achievements.

This is the reason why I believe they have created the new lighting system. The colour grade isn't there for nothing. I think it's been added especially for Atmospheric planets so they can program in different atmospheric makeup and come up with a colour overlay for it.

That makes sense, indeed.

Was there any news about multiple light sources, or has that been shelved?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Don't get me wrong, if atmospherics of some kind gets dropped alongside or soon after Q4 even as a paid DLC, I'll be back into the game like a shot.

After many many updates of disappointment, it'll have to be something special to make me stick around, though.

It's a shame you feel so disapointed. While I have many issues with many areas in the game, I still get a lot of enjoyment from it. For instance I am really enjoying the 3.0 update to the trade tools, and as I make a habit of trying to not use 3rd party tools as I mostly play in VR these tools are a massive help. They have actually made trading pretty enjoyable for me as I can plan trade routes with it.

So I have high hopes that the exploration update will be good to, the mining update already looks great, apart from a slight worry about module creep, I really can't seen any major issues with it.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

That makes sense, indeed.

Was there any news about multiple light sources, or has that been shelved?

It hasn't been shelved, but it is a massive resource hog, so it won't be in with this update. We may see it later with better GPU's, but I suspect it will be PC only.

We already have multiple light sources, but they are mainly from 1 main light source and the minor ones like our ships lights. Then when you start adding more and more major light sources to that I can see the computational issues that could cause. Some system have 10 stars in them.

 

[NeilF]

I can't envisage they have the talent and technical prowess to get all those things together as a coherent procedurally generated whole, either.

Hence the scepticism.

Maybe, but it's code/technology that's been around in different forms for a dozen+ years, so FD don't have to invent it, simply apply a good iteration of it in the game

And if you look at the surface changes, and lighting engine changes? Might that not be because of there the code is heading (for atmospheric landings)?

 

[Hellakitty]

Maybe, but it's code/technology that's been around in different forms for a dozen+ years, so FD don't have to invent it, simply apply a good iteration of it in the game

And if you look at the surface changes, and lighting engine changes? Might that not be because of there the code is heading (for atmospheric landings)?

It could be. I'd really, really like it to be because of that.

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[NeilF]

It could be. I'd really, really like it to be because of that.

But I'm not holding my breath.

Well, mining gameplay of note, Hot Spots of realistic rarity, worth, that are depletable, or atmospheric landings of enough depth and beauty are all I see bringing me back to the game over the next year or so...

So I am holding my breath

 

[Devari]

No, because as I said some is very good, some is not so good.

What Elite features are "very good"? Other than the SRV and planetary landings we got in 2.0 everything else during Horizons has been a buggy, minimum viable product that took twice as long to deliver as it should have. Beyond has been an absolute mess. Sorry, I haven't been seeing anything other than "mediocre" from Elite and that's being generous for a game that has cost me $105 USD so far plus cosmetics purchases.

In your opinion which is not backed up by any facts or evidence what so ever.

The past 3.5 years of FD making excuses for why the game is in such a poor state is plenty of evidence.

Again, I disagree. Some stuff I think is very good while others not so good. So which ones should I be looking at, the bad bits or the good bits?

That's nonsense. Sorry, Elite is nowhere near "very good" unless you have abysmally low standards for the games that you play.

Why, for what reasons?

I literally just told you why. Did you miss the part where we got more grind instead of actual gameplay improvements with Beyond? You really do need to actually read my posts here, not just ignore them and make laughable claims that Elite is "very good" as if simply making that ridiculous claim somehow makes it true.

As you don't need to grind for anything in the game anyway I see no grindfest to begin with.

This is where I can't seriously continue the "discussion" with you.

If you're going to try to pretend there's "no grind" or that you "don't need to grind" or any similar variation of that ludicrous claim then we aren't even discussing the same game here.

Sorry there is a minimum degree of honesty and objectivity that you're going to need if you want to have a meaningful discussion about the state of Elite.

Because C&P is not all about griefing.

C&P is exactly about griefing. What do you think was the point of the rework? Because NPCs were complaining?

I disagree.

Yes, but you also don't think there's "any need to grind" in Elite. As if FD just handed out my Elite rankings, Corvette, Cutter and billions of credits just for logging in.

I disagree. For me 3.0 was a massive step in the right direction, but each to their own.

You can "disagree" all you want but that's not a coherent argument.

Suppose I tried to claim "NMS was a great game when it launched". No matter what you might try to discuss about the state of that game when it launched and all the problems it had at the time, I'll just say "I disagree". That's not a coherent argument either because it's not based on any sort of objectivity or rational discussion, it's just stating a baseless claim over and over.

 

[Devari]

I hope you're not holding your breath whilst defending SC.

How am I "defending" SC exactly? I'm describing their game engine and why they require certain features. I've been highly critical of SC's funding model recently and have plenty of complaints about the state of that game, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize when the game has done some very impressive technical achievements relating to unifying perspectives, handling overlapping physics grids and so on.

 

[Devari]

.....so, no agenda there, then?

My only hope at this point is to see Elite get a modest amount of development effort instead of the almost complete lack of investment we've been seeing from them for the past 2.5 years since Horizons launched. I'm not expecting anything "good" from Elite but I would still like to see a minimum viable product version of space legs. Not because I want yet another minimum viable product feature but simply because FD is going to either give us nothing or a rudimentary version of space legs and I'd rather get something from them instead of nothing.