Why is the ED code diffrent for Consoles ?

[Cmdr dedsi]

From my understanding the next generation consoles (PS5s) are basically computers, I don't understand what makes them so hard to work with? I want a better explanation please.

My Supreme condolences to the console players I'm so sorry!

 

[Jaden Capek]

Consoles use different operating systems, often with different software architecture. Video games hitting problems when being ported to other consoles is a well- known occurrence, so it doesn't surprise me that Elite Dangerous was having problems running on all platforms, especially the aging ones.

 

[Cmdr dedsi]

Consoles use different operating systems, often with different software architecture. Video games hitting problems when being ported to other consoles is a well- known occurrence, so it doesn't surprise me that Elite Dangerous was having problems running on all platforms, especially the aging ones.

But the new Xboxes run windows right? I understand the old consoles like ps4 and ps3 but the new ones seem fine.

 

[Rainbro]

Kind of a moot point imo- there will be differences, but the differences aren't the reason for it being dropped. It's the performance of the Odyssey engine that is the limiting factor here. Consoles don't have the option of brute-forcing it with upgraded hardware.

Releasing on next-gen in particular would have some inherent problems anyway, like what you do with all the guys on the regular PS4/Xbox. Frontier have run the cost/benefit analysis and have decided against it have nothing to announce.

 

[Jaden Capek]

But the new Xboxes run windows right? I understand the old consoles like ps4 and ps3 but the new ones seem fine.

Xbox runs a different system that's based on Windows, but that's not necessarily the case with the Playstation. Plus each console generation is running on different versions of their systems with varying levels of official support, so you have to balance what's basically five variations of the code simultaneously on OSs that are constantly changing, made even more complex by different versions constantly sending and relying on data from each other (since things like the BGS is affected by all platforms) while the game is actively being played.

Basically Odyssey needed to be constructed in a way that would potentially be compatible with all the platforms so that it can eventually be integrated with them all at some unknown time in the future. Since Odyssey for consoles is now canceled, they don't have to worry about that part anymore.

Edit: in addition to that, Odyssey needs to be able to be merged into Horizons at some point, which is older software. That adds another layer of complexity to it. It probably would've been easier and get better results if they just made Elite Dangerous 2.

 

[Bottom Hat]

I imagine they'd get hotter under the collar, than your average consoler.

 

[CMDR Ylion]

for pc, the horizons codebase will at one point be elevated to odyssey level. thats the plan.
that would merge the two.
only one pc version to maintain now.
but odyssey won´t come for consoles, so no possibility to do that here.

i think your consfusion comes from the fact that we are talking about things in the future.
as it is atm, we DO have two different versions on pc.
for now, but that will change, and at that point the legacy horizons on consoles will only get bugfixes.
they won´t completely get rid of the second version(legacy horizons for consoles) but they won´t expand on it

 

[Darth Ender]

the whole point of being stuck with Cobra engine was that it was cross platform (and they control it).

That is where we abstract the individual platforms from the code that uses the engine.

So supporting the different platforms that Cobra supports is only a matter of resource requirements. not in coding in support ...that's been done already.

Fdev not releasing on console isn't due to added developer cost in supporting it. It has to do with added support costs in and negative image by having a substandard performing product on those platforms and in the fine print those platforms have in what that minimum performance must be.

 

[Koben]

With the original release of Elite Dangerous, there are several interviews with Mr. Braben being proud of Cobra engine capable of making it easy to port PC code to PS4/Xbox.

Their big mistake with Odyssey seems to be upgrading the engine (probably outsourcing it) and losing this capability on the process... also messing with PC performance as an undesired outcome from the decision of upgrading the engine.

 

[Morbad]

I doubt the code is particularly different between PC and console, or that developing for consoles is more difficult than for PC.

The issue with Odyssey on consoles is one of performance.

 

[Darth Ender]

this announcement is an announcement that they're no longer pursuing optimizations to get odyssey back to horizons level of performance. They're moving on with other work.

So strap in anyone who is seeing barely playable performance, You're stuck with it going forward for the foreseeable future.

 

[Northpin]

Well, dropping the XB Series seems a bit weird. They're powerful enough to run EDO.
Sure, PS is a totally different platform that might requiring extra dev work, but PC and XB - they're both basically running on Windows 10

Which makes me think it's not the tech part of the consoles, but most likely the associated costs with running the game on console platform
And if the Consoles are not bringing enough revenues to FDev, they're certainly going to get dropped.

But wait... they're not exactly dropping the game from consoles, right?
They're just not going to develop the game anymore. However the game will still generate costs on the Consoles, but with not as much revenues - especially with the announcement of Dev being stopped.

So... today announcement seems a bit weird.
We already knew for 9 months already that console dev is on hold - why announcing it's being canceled altogether?

Why?
Well, i'd say Arf is to blame. He went to DBOBE and said, my team will not do any other streams on Elite nor any real community management work. The cmdrs are bombing us with are we there yet? regarding the console version, you have to do something about it.

And DBOBE obliged


/tinfoilhatoff

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

well for starters I'd imagine trying to make a DirectX call on PlayStation 4 hardware isn't going to end well

 

[Jaden Capek]

Tinfoil

That might be reading too much into it and Braben did say that the problem had to do with working on multiple codebases. I figure they tried to make Odyssey compatible with consoles, but it's been over eight months with little progress, and juggling two codebases was just causing things to go far too slowly. So they gave up on consoles in favor of getting Odyssey for PC finished some time this century.

In other words, not a problem of gen 5 hardware not being good, but a problem of developing with consoles in mind was taking too much time.

 

[Darth Ender]

That might be reading too much into it and Braben did say that the problem had to do with working on multiple codebases. I figure they tried to make Odyssey compatible with consoles, but it's been over eight months with little progress, and juggling two codebases was just causing things to go far too slowly. So they gave up on consoles in favor of getting Odyssey for PC finished some time this century.

the game sits on cobra...which handles the support of different platforms.

Elite granted, does modify cobra quite a bit ...but the support for different platforms is not something they're adding or removing with elite. Nor would they need to support it specifically for elite outside of the server-side - which is hardly the point of contention with odyssey.

This was about not wanting to invest in optimizing further, and instead looking to add narrative and features that will regain some momentum and to do that ...they effectively will have abandoned getting consoles to the performance point necessary for sale on those platforms. They do not seem setup to do both.

 

[Koben]

That might be reading too much into it and Braben did say that the problem had to do with working on multiple codebases. I figure they tried to make Odyssey compatible with consoles, but it's been over eight months with little progress, and juggling two codebases was just causing things to go far too slowly. So they gave up on consoles in favor of getting Odyssey for PC finished some time this century.

I agree to that... but considering what Frontier achieved with a relative low kickstart budget and a rather small team compared to what they have now... there's not much of an excuse to drop console development as they did.

 

[Northpin]

That might be reading too much into it and Braben did say that the problem had to do with working on multiple codebases. I figure they tried to make Odyssey compatible with consoles, but it's been over eight months with little progress, and juggling two codebases was just causing things to go far too slowly. So they gave up on consoles in favor of getting Odyssey for PC finished some time this century.

I kinda disagree...
JWE2, which was launched on PC as a DX12 game with rather high system requirements and with Nvidia DLSS (now DLAA too), is also available on all consoles new and old
(Should i point out that JWE2 minimum system requirements are higher that the ones for EDO?)

Which means the Cobra Engine can deliver.

 

[Jaden Capek]

I think FDev will need to clarify what exactly they mean by having multiple codebases to help us understand why they needed to drop consoles.

I kinda disagree...
JWE2, which was launched on PC as a DX12 game with rather high system requirements and with Nvidia DLSS (now DLAA too), is also available on all consoles new and old
(Should i point out that JWE2 minimum system requirements are higher that the ones for EDO?)

Which means the Cobra Engine can deliver.

JWE2 is also not an MMO working on seven-year-old code that's been upgraded piecemeal for those seven years that simultaneously needs to integrate cross-play on the old- code base game and new-code Odyssey while the game is still being played.

 

[Zed]

I agree to that... but considering what Frontier achieved with a relative low kickstart budget and a rather small team compared to what they have now... there's not much of an excuse to drop console development as they did.

That Kickstarter goal was simply to see if there was enough interest. It was a very small part of the development cost.

 

[Erei]

With the original release of Elite Dangerous, there are several interviews with Mr. Braben being proud of Cobra engine capable of making it easy to port PC code to PS4/Xbox.

Their big mistake with Odyssey seems to be upgrading the engine (probably outsourcing it) and losing this capability on the process... also messing with PC performance as an undesired outcome from the decision of upgrading the engine.

I don't think so no.
I think the big issue is simply that a space sim is much less demanding in optimization to run than a "ground sim" like odyssey. ED was never really optimized, stuff like drawing the entire FC or station even when docked. But it was not a big deal, because all you had was the station, your ship, and a few other ships. Perhaps a planet in the distance, but nothing really demanding.
Even when planetary landing was added, there wasn't that much of an increase in stuff to draw and load. The AI was limited a few drones and ship, so that's was not a big change. And the settlements lacked details since it was not meant to be seen a close range, saving a lot of resources. All buildings where hollow shells to.

But when Odyssey was added, there was a much higher need for computational process. NPC with animations, gear and guns, and AI that was more refined since they had to take terrain and obstacles into account. Settlements had to be more complicated because that time they were meant to be seen up close. And you have TONS of stuff to show. Buildings are not hollow shells, they have things inside, and people, and whatnot.



I also want to note the other Fdev games are also poorly optimised. I remember watching a PAID streamer, with basically the best computer money can pay, having FPS drops in JWE and having to mention it was not the stream, but the game itself. I don't know if they optimize them in the long run or just don't, but when they release, they tend to run poorly.