Why is the Mission Generation System Still Broken?

[krylite]

I'd thought the massacre mission grouping nerf was also part of the of the general stacked missions "exploit" nerf that came with 2.3 which cut down the number of same target missions of primarily skimmer and data node scan missions where one could stack 20 of them up and finish them mostly instantaneously for tens of millions as well as fast-track rank and materials too easily. So now all of those missions are far more rare where skimmer missions are now tasked with tougher "goliath" targets with well defended bases.

 

[Mohrgan]

But taking a mission from the board doesn't remove it from the board of another player.

It should. It is not unreasonable to think that the available missions were already taken. These boards aren't populated for the individual, it's just filtered for jobs you can, and/or can't do.

 

[Devari]

FD haven't confirmed that it's a bug. In fact, their input on the bug report has been very limited so far...

It may be a bug, but it could also be that some factions don't generate these missions - there's nothing to say that every faction should generate every type of mission. However, the only way we'll know is if FD tell us.

Have you actually read any of the bug reports? Because FD has stated they are investigating and trying to fix it. They don't fix something that is working as intended.

 

[jasonbarron]

I want to gain one more rank with the feds, so I can buy a cutter.

Um, I have some very bad news for you, Z...

 

[Devari]

It should. It is not unreasonable to think that the available missions were already taken. These boards aren't populated for the individual, it's just filtered for jobs you can, and/or can't do.

Yes, they are populated for the individual player. They are generated locally based on BGS data sent from the FD server every time there is a BGS "tick". The vast majority of the game you are playing is generated locally because your client generates local USS, NPCs and literally everything else in the game. That is why logging back from open to solo and so one refreshes the boards. That is a consequence of the P2P architecture and is why we don't have actual persistence of NPCs or other objects in the game world.

Once you understand how the game works, and how it is limited by the P2P architecture, much of the game bugs and behavior are much easier to understand. Many of the mission "events", for example, are due to local generation of mission parameters when you jump into a system and it's why we have had so many problems with mission redirections with 0:00 time remaining, serial interdictions by the same NPC and problems with the BSG "tick" synching properly with your local client resulting in missed delivery windows and so on.

 

[Devari]

Where is the source that tells that the mission system has to generate massacre missions?

The "source" is the BSG data sent by the FD server, but the missions themselves are generated by your local Elite client. Same as how your local client generates a USS or NPC based on that background sim data. The FD server is not generating the missions itself, it is giving your client the data to generate them. The bugs could therefore either be client-side or server-side, i.e., their server is not generating accurate BSG data or the local client is not properly using this data to generate the required missions. It's much the same reason why we have so many problems with NPC bugs and it's how the Skynet NPC bug was created in the first place, i.e., local generation of NPC data. Like I said above, if you know a bit about how the P2P architecture works you realize that the vast majority of the game you're playing is generated locally by your computer, not by their server. Their server just sends the BSG parameters needed to generate the game world that you're interacting with, it does not generate the missions directly and this causes many of the problems we've seen with mission persistence.

 

[Mohrgan]

Yes, they are populated for the individual player. They are generated locally based on BGS data sent from the FD server every time there is a BGS "tick". The vast majority of the game you are playing is generated locally because your client generates local USS, NPCs and literally everything else in the game. That is why logging back from open to solo and so one refreshes the boards. That is a consequence of the P2P architecture and is why we don't have actual persistence of NPCs or other objects in the game world.

Once you understand how the game works, and how it is limited by the P2P architecture, much of the game bugs and behavior are much easier to understand. Many of the mission "events", for example, are due to local generation of mission parameters when you jump into a system and it's why we have had so many problems with mission redirections with 0:00 time remaining, serial interdictions by the same NPC and problems with the BSG "tick" synching properly with your local client resulting in missed delivery windows and so on.

It's based on the BGS, not the player. When the board refreshes, it doing so in reaction to a player instancing, but it can't know what kind of missions one is looking for. There just were no more, at that time, massacre mission available. It's not hard to understand.

 

[GG7]

These have always been problematic. Especially when they are on offer during a Ceasefire making them impossible to complete. IN my experience, they are more common during such a ceasefire than they are when they should be available!

Personally... I don't bother with them anymore.

 

[Devari]

It's based on the BGS, not the player. When the board refreshes, it doing so in reaction to a player instancing, but it can't know what kind of missions one is looking for. There just were no more, at that time, massacre mission available. It's not hard to understand.

It's based on the BGS info sent from each server "tick", but it should still be sending BGS data that allows the local client to generate the required missions. It would be the same if you weren't getting a rare good on the commodity boards. Either the BSG "tick" is not sending accurate data, or your local client is not generating an accurate output. It is a bug. It should not be happening. It's not hard to understand.

 

[Mohrgan]

It's based on the BGS info sent from each server "tick", but it should still be sending BGS data that allows the local client to generate the required missions. It would be the same if you weren't getting a rare good on the commodity boards. Either the BSG "tick" is not sending accurate data, or your local client is not generating an accurate output. It is a bug. It should not be happening. It's not hard to understand.

You can't support all of that with the fact that there were no Massacre missions available. I don't get where the assumption that they should be perpetually available comes from. What missions were available are gone. Being snotty won't change the situation. It's your assumption that there just has to be massacre missions available is wrong.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

One thing i've frequently noticed is that some factions go crazy generating certain mission types while another in the same state won't. Yet different missions will appear for the former in great numbers but not for the latter. And then some factions seem blessed with lots of missions of all types and then some factions who just seem to get little.

There is definitely something at play with regards to factions and what missions they generate. Anarchy factions love generating smuggle missions for example. Whether this is at play in this case, no idea, but in general, it does happen.

My own faction (corporate), when in conflict, sometimes requires a bit of mode switching to spawn massacre missions. Its like there is a bias against them. However, when in boom, delivery missions up the wazoo.

 

[rrobes]

The thing w/ missions for me, and it has been this way for some time, is the repetition of the mat rewards given, modular terminals and micro-weave cooling hoses are the current worst offenders.

If you leave the station and try other systems, you do find a bit more variety but the best ones can be hidden by faction rep, and if you rep up, you end up w/ the above as rewards. Joseph Heller would be proud.

Suspicion on this state of affairs could be placed on FD trying to throttle down high end mods, but to what effects, discouraging the long-time players and giving less advanced players a chance to catch up? IDK.

One word, variety, or is it impossible to attain.

 

[Devari]

You can't support all of that with the fact that there were no Massacre missions available. I don't get where the assumption that they should be perpetually available comes from. What missions were available are gone. Being snotty won't change the situation. It's your assumption that there just has to be massacre missions available is wrong.

You need to understand how the P2P architecture works. It's a fundamental issue of how the game is designed. If you don't understand this I really can't help you. It's sort of like explaining how a car works, either you know enough about automechanics to understand the problem that is described to you or you don't.

What you're suggesting is like telling a player they can't get any more Lavian brandy because other players have taken it all. That's not how it works. You can't "take" missions from another player any more than you can "take" rare commodities from another player on the commodities screen. It would be the same if you weren't getting a rare good on the commodity boards. You will get, say, 6 Lavian brandy and then another 6 with the next server "tick" and then your local client will then stop generating them until you leave the station and deliver them. When you return it will see you're below your limit of 12 and give you another 6 with each sever tick. You don't "take" the 6 brandy from the sever where it was available to other players, you only take what is generated locally based on the BGS data sent to your local client.

Either the BSG "tick" is not sending accurate data, or your local client is not generating an accurate output. It is a bug and FD should be fixing it. FD have confirmed that they are addressing this issue as seen by their responses in numerous bug reports, there is zero possibility that this is working as intended.

 

[Mohrgan]

You need to understand how the P2P architecture works. It's a fundamental issue of how the game is designed. If you don't understand this I really can't help you. It's sort of like explaining how a car works, either you know enough about automechanics to understand the problem that is described to you or you don't.

What you're suggesting is like telling a player they can't get any more Lavian brandy because other players have taken it all. That's not how it works. You can't "take" missions from another player any more than you can "take" rare commodities from another player on the commodities screen. It would be the same if you weren't getting a rare good on the commodity boards. You will get, say, 6 Lavian brandy and then another 6 with the next server "tick" and then your local client will then stop generating them until you leave the station and deliver them. When you return it will see you're below your limit of 12 and give you another 6 with each sever tick. You don't "take" the 6 brandy from the sever where it was available to other players, you only take what is generated locally based on the BGS data sent to your local client.

Either the BSG "tick" is not sending accurate data, or your local client is not generating an accurate output. It is a bug and FD should be fixing it. FD have confirmed that they are addressing this issue as seen by their responses in numerous bug reports, there is zero possibility that this is working as intended.

I got it. I think you are wrong. The system isn't broken, you just don't like how it works, or you just don't know as much about it as you think you do. Either way, I'm cool with that.

P.S. Stations do have a control on how many 'Rares' are available at one time. I've sat waiting for 'Rares' to spawn on the Market.

 

[Devari]

One thing i've frequently noticed is that some factions go crazy generating certain mission types while another in the same state won't. Yet different missions will appear for the former in great numbers but not for the latter. And then some factions seem blessed with lots of missions of all types and then some factions who just seem to get little.

There is definitely something at play with regards to factions and what missions they generate. Anarchy factions love generating smuggle missions for example. Whether this is at play in this case, no idea, but in general, it does happen.

My own faction (corporate), when in conflict, sometimes requires a bit of mode switching to spawn massacre missions. Its like there is a bias against them. However, when in boom, delivery missions up the wazoo.

There are definitely certain parameters that affect mission generation, for example, you don't see Sirius generating smuggling mission at Sothis/Ceos while the Anarchy factions generate them all the time. Certain missions, however, can be generated by all types of factions under certain system states. I have seen all types of factions generate massacre missions, it is not restricted to a particular faction type. The main parameters are system state (i.e., war or civil war) and whether the station itself is generating missions (i.e., if the station is on lockdown that overrides regular mission generation parameters). FD's response to the numerous bug reports also confirms that both sides involved in a war should be generating massacre missions so it's either a problem with their BSG server data or it's a problem with the local client not generating the proper missions based on that data. You'll also notice in the bug reports that for some reason factions that should be generating massacre missions are sometimes generating Boom delivery missions instead despite not being in a Boom state which is clearly a bug. In this case of the corporate faction at the current CG, HeHe Federal Interstellar, is currently state of Civil War, they have no recovering or pending states, so there is no reason they should not be generating massacre missions.

 

[Devari]

I got it. I think you are wrong. The system isn't broken, you just don't like how it works, or you just don't know as much about it as you think you do. Either way, I'm cool with that.

P.S. Stations do have a control on how many 'Rares' are available at one time. I've sat waiting for 'Rares' to spawn on the Market.

There's nothing more I can say to help you understand this. I've explained how the BSG data is used to populate the mission or commodity boards as clearly as I possibly can. You need to read about how P2P architecture works and go through the various bug reports and posts on this issue if you want to have a meaningful discussion on the topic.

 

[Mohrgan]

There's more nothing I can say to help you understand this. I've explained how the BSG data is used to populate the mission or commodity boards as clearly as I possibly can. You need to read about how P2P architecture works and go through the various bug reports and posts on this issue if you want to have a meaningful discussion on the topic.

I certainly understand the BGS, as well as you. I don't need you to educate me. You just, obviously, missed something in your conjuring. That's ok.

 

[Devari]

I certainly understand the BGS, as well as you. I don't need you to educate me. You just, obviously, missed something in your conjuring. That's ok.

You really don't understand the BGS or local client architecture at all based on what you've described in your posts. You seem to think that missions or commodities are generated and stored on the server and players "take" them from the server where they would have otherwise been available to other players. That is not how it works. I'm sorry but you are 100% wrong with your understanding. There are many forum posts on this issue, you can read up on them yourselves, but what you are describing is quite simply not how the game works.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You need to understand how the P2P architecture works.

Maybe i'm missing what your point is, but missions are generated server side. P2P doesn't come into it.

 

[Devari]

Maybe i'm missing what your point is, but missions are generated server side. P2P doesn't come into it.

Missions are generated for each individual player by their local client based on BSG data. That's why you won't see the same missions on the mission boards even if two players are in the same instance at the same station. There is an element of RNG in the client-side mission generation that relies on BSG data but you are not "taking" a mission from FD's server, the game is generating missions for your CMDR based on the BGS server data from each "tick".

It's very similar to how the commodity generation system works. You are not "taking" supply from the station directly. You'll notice that if you are running a trade route there will be a certain commodity limit which is generated locally based on BGS data. What you'll notice if you watch the numbers carefully is that this doesn't decrease like regular inventory even when you should be exhausting the local supply. I have filled my cargo holds with a certain amount of commodity at a station then upon my return there is exactly the same quantity available again. It's not until the collective player activities trigger a change in the BSG data that this is updated by the server "tick" and the supply decreases. You are not all taking inventory from FD's central server, you are taking inventory from a local limit generated based on BSG data. They are very different concepts and it has to do with the way the P2P architecture works and interfaces with the BGS data.

If FD had a central server doing all of these things then it would completely different, everyone could see exactly the same missions and commodity inventories. Unfortunately FD went with a much less expensive P2P architecture instead of a central server that stores and processes all of this data and that is why we have some of these issues. You are not getting missions or commodities from a central source shared by all players, you are getting BGS data that is updated with each sever "tick". There is a massive difference between getting a mission that is generated directly and stored on a central server and getting a BGS "tick" that tells your local client to generate missions.