Why Space Legs?

[kilvenny]

Well I hope it's more involved and engaging that what we've seen so far. ie: With years to prepare, and invest mechanics into the game ready to then utilise for the alien invasion (to come), no such investment takes place so we ultimately get an alien invasion with the depth of invisible Thargoid fleets attacking stations during Thursday morning ticks...

True, I am hoping they make the Thargoids a power and a faction, so that their presence becomes more visible. In systems where Thargoids are present then interdiction in SC by Thargoid craft is possible. If you look at what they have done in the last 12 months and what they plan before release of New Era, we have had squadrons, fleet carriers and some intriguing BGS changes and the Thargoids are in multiple places in the Galaxy. Fleet Carriers and what they actually are should tell us a little more about the direction they are headed.

 

[VR Golgot]

With all due respect, and I really mean that: (Firstly I put my hands up to being an old fart, 84'er and early Kickstarter backer of ED, and with over 6000 hours into both my ED commanders to boot) ....but I think you are coming from a perspective that see's EDH as being a very different beast to the ''Space Trading & Combat Game'' that the original Elite and all that followed up to and including ED(H). In (my) eyes Elite Dangerous is all about piloting, crafting, and maintaining space ships, what you can do IN them, what you can see OUT of them. Reading your paragraph above (pardon me for cutting the other paragraphs out for clarity of (my) argument) I think you want a game that has ALL the in-built and extraneous features of say NMS or Star Citizen or even ME Andromeda. If FDev crafted a game that was fully spawned in line with your paragraph above..... then ''ELITE'' as a seminal game with a strong back history and quirky, unique presentation would (IMHO) cease to exist.... it would just become a clone of one of those many other games. o7

He's coming from this perspective: That FDev & Braben have said that Legs are a fundamental objective for the modern version of Elite:

David Braben said (6 and a half year ago):

"Another example that we have built into the structure of the game. is um... ship interiors, now a lot of people have seen that we are designing all the ships with the interiors in mind, how the cargo is unloaded, all of that sort of thing, how damage occurs, and that`s because that another thing that we are doing, again down the line, is that you will be able to walk around inside your ship, you will be able to get out of your ship,walk around inside space stations, other vehicles, all of that sort of thing, we`ve shown the damage on ship, the damage models, imagine looking at that from inside the ship outwards seeing your cargo flying out into space, seeing the flames, trying to fight them.. umm.. all of those things that we plan with time. they won`t be there at the first release because we want to do them right, we want to do them well, all of these will be done as updates, I`ll talk some more about that in a second, but the point really is that we ant to do it well, but the game has to be structured in a way to allow it from the start so we are designing the ships so that they work that way, and so that when we come to do it, it`s not a problem, when we come to show all this elements, walking around the ship, walking into other people`s ships, potentially stealing them, we have got in mind, all of the things, all of the gameplay, the really rich gameplay, that that entails, and it`s... you know... to go back to what i`ve been saying right from the start of this Kickstarter, what is the game i want to play, this is the game i want to play, because actually in many ways it doesn`t feel like a game, it feels like a world that i`m being brought into, and with each of these subsequent updates we expect that that world will get richer and richer, and more and more of the things that we are excited about will be there, you WILL (with emphasis even) be able to walk around the space port, you will be able to see gold being loaded into someone else`s ship, you will be able to sneak in and hide amongst the cargo, all of those things are phenomenal gameplay opportunities, where that ship might actually be the ship of another player, so just think where that all ends, you know all of these things we need to do right, it would be very easy to do them very poorly, and that would be my fear, sothese things will not be there on day one.... "

Newsletter 32: 'To Launch, and Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass'

We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:

Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.

Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.

Alpha and Premium Beta customers, and those who have already bought the £35 Lifetime Expansion Pass alongside either Beta or the full game, will have access to all these features and updates for as long as we create them at no further cost.

Elite: Dangerous Development Plan (hosted on Kickstarter page - Dec 2014)

You will be able to walk around the spaceport, you will be able to see gold being loaded into someone else's ship, you will be able to sneak in and hide in amongst the cargo. All of those things are phenomenal game play opportunities where that ship might actually be the ship of another player, so just think where that all ends.

---

Throw in things like periodic suggestions by FDev that it's still their intent:

• 'The team and I all see Space Legs as the feature we will love to add and are at the top of our specification, but it's something that will not happen in the Beyond season. We will talk more about it later.' (Translated Sandro - Jan 2018)
• 'The future for Elite Dangerous is very exciting, including a whole raft of incredible features, yes including 'space legs' but so many more things too.' (David Braben - April 2017)
• 'All of the things, and there are lots of other things as well, that we want to do are a way away, because to do them well... Doing an animated character is only part of the problem, you've got to have things to do with it, it's got to be rich, and a great experience. So don't hold your breath, but when it comes it'll be great.' (David Braben - Dec 2016)

And aspects like the 'leak' holding true on its peculiar predictions....

Then add in background colour like this Sandro quote from March 2017:

Just to set the record straight, Space Legs and EVA gameplay, that's way off in the future. That's a goal. I've talked to David and it's always been part of his core vision for what Elite really is, even from way back in the day, it's always been about you're a person in a real futuristic setting, not just a ship. However, I think it's also fair to say Space Legs is effectively dovetailing a whole new game into Elite. We take steps towards it, it's our end vision, but we're not there yet, we're... it's a long way off. And when it does, by the time, if we get there, if we manage it, I'm sure we'll have the time to sort out any consistencies that need to be sorted out.

Or hell, go back to 2001 and their desire to add 'legs' to initial attempts to get 'Elite 4' off the ground

In Elite, you couldn't fly over planet surfaces, but that was rectified in Frontier. In Frontier you couldn't get out of your ship, but we aim to rectify that in Elite 4.

And you can see why 'Elite should stay Elite' arguments are somewhat redundant on a fair few fronts

 

[VR Golgot]

The entire point of my OP though is that last line : "How do you see legs being implemented, and immersion aside, what will legs add without taking anything away?"

Soz OP, it's hard to cover this well-tilled ground again, especially given we're mainly in the dark on the fine details of what FDev plan for Legs. But have some copypasta

Here are some dream tier examples of Leg additions that sit within FDev's broad outlines to date (and potentially within their displayed skillset). I'm not arguing that any particular one is coming, let alone all of them, but they represent the potential that excites many people about a Legs expansion (& how it could dovetail with both Helm & other additions)...

• Scavenging hulks with possible xenos inside (while your ship hangs by the entrance, lighting your way out...)
• Floating into the rafters of a trade exchange in the low-G belly of an anarchy base. Then taking out the selling party, as contracted...
• Repairing the dangerously-discharging engine breach on your explorer ship, illuminated by the stellar lightning storm that has already struck it once...
• Melding a hull breach from the inside in your marauding mech suit, while Helm screams that a drone is boring into his canopy and you should really come get it the flip off...
• Plummeting through a cloudscape and hitting your hand retros just late enough to steer onto the space whale's back... Now to hack that possession tag before the blasted fauna fuzz show up..

I went into total dream mode on the penultimate one once. See here

On adding to the current game loops:

Adding To The Classic Delivery Loop:

Given it's an 'optional' DLC, my suspicion is they'll (have to) retain the current game loops, but many Legs activities will likely be additive on top IE:

• Data Delivery: Get paid extra to hand-ferry the data to the recipient (with ambush risks / poss NPC hire for protection)
• Cargo Delivery: Get paid extra to guard the cargo as it's transferred from the unloading dock to its destination. (Possibly using the classic 'proximity control' of a moving cargo array etc)

There could of course be stand-alone 'Legs only' missions, but 'ship only' ones could certainly remain.

Other 'Optional' Mission Extensions:

• Examine the husk of a defeated pirate enemy for stolen data
• Collect samples from the perilous lightning storm you've discovered
• EVA with the tourist to the viewing point at the top of the mountain

Etc etc

There are more leftfield ideas that FDev have floated, like conversation trees & synthesised voices, or whatever, for a fuller NPC experience, which could also be intriguing. If / when stations interiors are attempted we might see them pursue ideas of old such as The Outsider's stealth & fluid narratives. It's all speculative at this stage though

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Because I’ve been holding it all the way to Hutton Orbital.

 

[NeilF]

True, I am hoping they make the Thargoids a power and a faction, so that their presence becomes more visible. In systems where Thargoids are present then interdiction in SC by Thargoid craft is possible. If you look at what they have done in the last 12 months and what they plan before release of New Era, we have had squadrons, fleet carriers and some intriguing BGS changes and the Thargoids are in multiple places in the Galaxy. Fleet Carriers and what they actually are should tell us a little more about the direction they are headed.

Indeed! The Thargoids position should be a Powerplay type view on the map, with CMDRs able to undertake rather more involved and interesting gameplay that can affect that position... ie: Actual stealth, recon and combat scenarios becoming of a space game in 2020! You know the kind of gameplay that was available 25yrs ago in space games!

 

[zimms]

NMS and SC also proved they couldn't combine FPS with a flight model without making both suck badly in comparison to games that concentrate on one. FDEV might be able to do better than them both in feet as well as flight as they already do or it might be that it just can't be done in one game to a decent standard.

I hope FDEV can do it as it would be really great but its just potential not a certainty.

I'll not jump aboard a hype train till FDEV announces the destination.

The thing Elite has going for it is that FD don't try to do it all at once. We already have a great flight model which isn't going anywhere even if FPS gameplay should get added at some point.

Completely agree with the rest.

 

[govny]

2,200 is greater than 200. The point is popularity... I know, counting is hard

so you judge the games by the stramers not by the number of players.
I would reply that since in SC you can't have most of the ships if you don't pay hundreds of dollars it is obvious that most people watch others playing instead of play.
moreover SC have a lot of streamers because people that spend thousand of dollars try to monetize their investment and even because some of them are payed by CIG itself to stream.
to me is exactly the opposite of what you infer with that image. The more the streamers the less the people that effectively play the game.

 

[NeilF]

The thing Elite has going for it is that FD don't try to do it all at once. We already have a great flight model which isn't going anywhere even if FPS gameplay should get added at some point.

Completely agree with the rest.

You're right there about a great flight model and then not going anywhere!

The problem with FD is they seemingly just haven't had the desire or ability to do anything particularly significant in years? Indeed, we've had four years of all too often mediocre if not entirely questionable bolt on features, ranging from "balance breaking" Engineering, to "why even bother" Generation Ships, to "what were you thinking" Multicrew? Personally I'm hard pressed to think of anything significant that's been well designed and solidly introduced since planetary landings over four years ago :/ Four hundred man years!?!

Even the much lauded Mining 2.0, which even with a fairly limited scope and basically a blank canvas to work with, is clearly hald baked with needless issues!

It really doesn't fill me with hope for the end of this year especially if much of it is now being dedicated to a whole new batch of game mechanics in the guise of space legs!

 

[babelfisch]

If you say so. Compare the 2 series in terms of success

That was my point. Neither success nor popularity means better.
Dead Man is a better movie than Fast and Furious.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Star Citizen has proved there is a 300M USD market for a space based FPS shooter with space flight. They have proved only limited AI is required. The alternative of fleshing out gameplay or making landing possible on other types of world will not sell units. I am expecting them to focus on Thargoid content, opening up the structures we already have with on foot gameplay.

Nope. There's no proof. Just unaudited claims.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

In between other IRL tasks I'm sckimming some of the other threads onlegs suggetions I mentioned earlier, heres some quotes that struck me as relevant to this thread while skimming those other threads. There will be more posts like this where I'm not spamming quotes, I'm positively contributing by syndicating other relevent threads in an attempt to bring fresh light to other previously posted positive suggestions.

I am starting this thread since the other one focuses too much on FPS style gameplay, which results in too many pointless discussions in my opinion.

Well here is what I want from space legs and I realise that it's probably too much...

• Walking around ships / stations / outposts / surfaces
• Meet and interact with NPCs (both generic and handcrafted, Tier 2 NPCs anyone?)
• Survival elements (although I hate most current survival games I would absolutely love to fix things inside and outside of my ship)
• Gathering surface / biological samples for science
• Infiltrating outposts and NPC ships Deus Ex / Mass Effect style. It doesn't need to be as sophisticated with tons of RPG elements and character specialisation but it would be awesome to have non-lethal ways.
• Using weapons should be possible but I don't want to see hordes of enemies like you would expect them in Doom or CoD. Firing a weapon should be a carefully made decision which does involve consequences.
• Most importantly, petting my cockpit cat and watering the plants

FPS mining, the ability to explore new environments, anything else is a bonus for me.

Mission givers. These could be faction representatives or mission givers from other places such as black markets and the different installations (these would need to become dockable) that are scattered around the place. To differentiate with the missions you get on a mission board, when you meet someone in person you get the option to barter for different rewards. There will also be different types of missions too.

I would like to see missions become a deeper experience so when we need to scan a ships beacon we can get a wrinkle that says that the ships beacon is damaged and we need to enter the abandoned (is it truely abandoned though) ship to directly connect with the ships computer terminal at the bridge (there can be many variations on these types of mission some may involve combat with NPC or defence robots or needing to circumnavigate security to get through locked areas of the ship or avoid or overcome hazards to get to your destination.

Generation ship exploration for mission objectives. Are these generations ship really abandoned as they seem. Are there tribes of ferrel humans surviving in these places.

Exploration of cave systems which our ships and SRV are too big to enter, bypass hazards to get some rare materials or to find some kind of alien artifact.

Explore extinct alien bases and building. Imagine finding the guardian ruins exploring them in your SRV, then getting out of your SRV to explore the insides of these places.

I am not that interested in a FPS arena type add-on, that would be a bit crap.

Some mild survival gameplay. Change how repair limpets and the AFMU works by making them as bandaids that degrade over time. You either need to re-repair with limpets or AMFU until you get to a station or go out and EVA and do permanant repairs yourself.

Assuming a pre-atmos deployment, any of this stuff could be cool... (trebly so with solid VR support )

• Loadouts for players, similar to ship loadouts. Allowing us to weight our suits in certain directions like stealth, heavy duty etc. (With implications beyond FPS - IE suits that are better at mining, or exploration etc. But all part of a 'rock, paper, scissors' system).
• NPCs having comparable basic loadouts. IE 'stealth' NPCs with low radar profile & visibility, & ideally behaviour. Heavies and other classic 'enemy' tropes etc.
• Low-G locomotion. IE locations designed to allow verticality and multiple avenues of approach, & challenge in navigating over and between ship hulls etc.
• Minor faction representation in station populations. IE having to deal with factions who you've angered. (The results could be: Stealthing around gatherings of them / being tracked by individuals until you're out of no-fire zones / engaging with groups to clear a path in anarchy zones etc). Allied factions etc could also come to your aid.
• Specific missions to exploit all of the above mechanics. IE 'escort the cargo' missions, using the classic 'proximity control' of an objective. You can use a mix of scouting ahead to clear a path and hanging back to retain control of the goods.
• Off-station uses of the same, such as exploring ship wrecks, with potential threats inside.
• Some form of 'contextual' NPC interactions with the roladex of proc gen 'tier 2' NPCs possibly. (Bonus dreamland: 'Tier 3' persistent NPCs generated via interactions)

Wouldn't expect all of it by any means. Some of it could be cool though

walk, run, jump, swim, climb, wear a flight suit, fast boats on lakes, build bases, cut trees, collect herbs, ride a cabin, paint the cabin, protect it from the rain, ride a telescope,create a bow of arrows,kill rabbits, skin them, roast them, take careers on foot, inside a bag, ride a bike, take apart the bike, fish in a puddle,skating,skiing...
if all this is not implemented, it is not my game

Space legs I want. FPS not so much.

I want to see the rest of the inside of my ship. I want to walk in to the station a look out of those windows overlooking my parked ship. I want to get out of my srv and wander around on the surface.

I also want some interesting gameplay associated with the above. Meeting up with someone in a bar to get a smuggling mission. Going in to an abandoned surface base to recover data. Searching for rare materials in SRV inaccessible places.

If there were no hand held weapons in the game ever I would be quite happy.

Layers of mechanics and visuals and effects for atmospheric worlds then first in my opinion

Sorry Neil, if we do atmospheres first, all it will be is the same scan/shoot/scoop just with a different texture on the skybox.

 

[Badmiker]

I cannot wait.
Finally be able to tidy up some of those damn cables.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Since all things seem to point to the april leaks as being accurate, it seems like we are getting space legs as the new era in 2020's big update, so this has left me wondering what we are all hoping for from "space legs", are we wanting another First Person Shooter like Call of Duty? Or are we hoping for a more nuanced Role Playing Game experience where we get to interact with the environment and the characters there in with more than just weapons? Or maybe a bit of a hybrid, with RPG elements away from the battles, but some intense First Person Perspective combat?

Personally; I'd hope for something that contains some good combat missions, but has a lot more depth than a galaxy wide death match, so I'm hoping for the third option of a FPS/RPG hybrid. I'm envisioning something with elements from the "mechanic" genre of games allowing us to dismantle/build/fix/upgrade things, and the ability/requirement to engage in dialogue with NPC's, as well as combat scenarios. I'd imagine that legs will bring about the ability to interact with NPC's at stations, build and leverage relations with them. For example, one such dialogue leveraging previous facours to NPC's could run like "come on bro, after all that Lavian Brandy I brought you at christmas, the very least you can do is find me someone who can help me to get 3 cracked industrial firmware..."

Similarly I'd imagine being approached in a space station by a shadowy operative of a faction that trusted my CMDR asking me to assist in a delicate matter or ending someones political career, permanently. Such a request could see the player having to go one-man-army bloodbath on that NPC's fortified and heavily guarded residence. OR maybe getting a distress call that a megaship is being boarded by thargoids and all passing ships being asked to exterminate the incursion, inside the megaship.

My worry about space legs is that all we will get is tantamount to "Call of Duty: Thargoid-Splatterers" and all the immersive RPG elements and alternatives to "run and gun" shoot-em-up playstyles will be skipped. Having played through the campaign of a good few installments of the Splinter Cell franchise, I would love to see stealthy gameplay being a viable means to complete certain missions. Having played through the original Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis where you had a large amount of tactical freedom in how you went about achieving your objectives, and noone cared how you done it, I'd pray that "Space Legs" will offer the players similar freedoms.

So that is a quick outline of what I hope for from, and what I am affraid we will get as "space legs", whats your thoughts?

Sorry - this is a "space legs" thing.
I was scanning a station the other day, spotting targets, hackable stuff etc and thought - wouldn't it be cool if, when/if we get space legs, you could scan a station (or ship?) and:
1) spot potential entry points, like emergency hatches, cargo hatches, vents - that would enable you to drop out of your ship in a boarding suit (with thrusters to get you around in zero G) and cut your way into the station (or even ship) - as an alternative to sneaking or shooting your way in through the main entrance.
2) Get a schematic map of the station/ship to help you plan your entry and mission (spot where the hostages/pirate lord/general/cargo/data you want to escape with/destroy/assassinate might be)

If you're inside the station/ship defending you'd get access to the schematics anyway to plan your defence and alerts when breaches are detected.

Could insert people from multiple directions. Someone docks and walks out all natural-like with a gun hidden a shielded case (purchasable equipment) someone storms a cargo bay to cause a diversion, someone else cuts their way in through a vent.

Could run a recon mission first to scan and get the schematics, then make a plan and gather your mates.

Would be awesome for non-linear observe/plan/execute gameplay and boy would it spice up combat on stations (as I'm guessing that spacelegs might happen on ships/stations/airless worlds first due to the huge challenge of building 121 scale Earthlikes). Might have to only be possible on specific target stations/ships - or all hell would break loose.

...with apologies to any space-leg haters out there! (personally I can't wait)

The upcoming expansion The Next Era probably has space legs according to the leaks (December 2020). So what kind of features would you like to see? Here's a wish list:

• Hunt wild alien creatures (gives materials, can be sold for credits)
• First person style shooter and melee combat
• Battle human players, NPCs and Thargoids
• Missions such as infiltrate a pirate base with multiple solutions (combat, stealth or negotiator/pacifist)
• Accessible ship interiors (for big ships like the Normandy of Mass Effect: cockpit, captain's quarters, bridge, engineering, crew quarters, cargo bay, hangar bay, conference center, medical lab, observation deck)
• Zero gravity in small ships. Float or use magnetic boots to walk
• Ship interior should be designed for zero gravity use. For example the kitchen could be on the ceiling
• Base building (custom design with lots of options)
• Lots of cosmetics to customize ship and base interiors, player and NPC outfits
• Faction costumes for roleplay (Alliance, Empire and Federation)
• Bigger procedural cities on planets (just fun to walk or drive with the SRV, doesn't need many activities)
• Walk around in a station (a few areas are sufficient such as in the station hangar, a bar, walk way with a nice view and a few shops, like the Citadel of Mass Effect)
• Go outside the ship for manual repairs in space
• Survival mechanics on planets (players must have enough food, energy and health to survive while exploring a planet)
• Basic first person mining on planets
• Weapon and suit upgrades (these can be bought or crafted with materials)
• Hoverboard to reduce travel time (faster than walking, but slower than an SRV, like Back to the Future)

P.S. this thread is not for complaining that you don't like space legs.

This is a related post on the ED subreddit. The highest rated comment by JetsonRING has 1300 upvotes.

"Do you want space legs for elite dangerous? If there is relevant gameplay added to the game then yes. If FDev models the rest of the ship's interiors then yes. If FDev models the interiors of space stations and outposts, creates relevant gameplay around that then yes.

If all I can do is stand up in my ship's cockpit and take screenshots, then no."

If the expansion is coming to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X then it must have next-gen graphical fidelity.

I recently re-read through all the logs of the known of generation ships in game, and I found the story of the phobos interesting, basically they got to their destination planet, deployed 4 settlements, only to find the indiginous wildlife was too wild for them to handle. After reading this, and thinking it over it dawned on me that with base building being reportedly a key feature of 2020 update, there could be some really interesting game play to be had there.

Might it be an interesting combination, assuming we get atmospheric planets (suing tech from the three theam park games, most notably zoo planet, to populate those planets) as well as base building and legs, if we were only permitted to colonize certain planets. Those planets would be currently inhabited by rather wild ecosystems, opening up the option for lots of starship troopers style of bughunting battles, ark survival against the environment. bring with it new rare resources to harvest from said wildlife, such as leestian "devil dog horns", "Cemiessian giant lizard teeth", etc... Not to mention capturing live specimens and doing science on / with them, things like developing new human immune system boosters by extrapolating the antibodies present in what ever creatures/plants you take to the lab?

Also, if these bases weren't just, or least ways not as efficient when built as, "your little house on the prairie"; but needed other things tied to them, air scrubbers, water, power, comms, sanitation etc. The base building aspect could take on an element of sim city style of management. Give us the ability to control skimmers, golliaths, and turrets, and also let us build planet side ship hangars, and base defense from human foes or hostile fauna becomes its own mini game.

With a bit of "joined up thinking" planetary bases, with fauna, could become very much like Sid Meier Alpha Centauri.

Alright this post sort of ties into base building, but has some relevance here as I envisage the base building creating areas in whcih first person gameplay can happen.

Just a thought,
As well as base building for hutton mugs, cat posters and flowerpots, probably on barren worlds.... What about base building as a mission criteria to take the fight to thargoids on their own planets?

Example Missions:
AEGIS/Imperial Navy/Federal Navy need to establish a beach head on thargworld 6c, take this cargo special module to that plane, drop it at coordinates X-Y and defend it for twenty minutes from thargoid scouts and ground units while the module deploys its turrets to hold its own.

AEGIS/Imperial Navy/Federal Navy need to establish a beach head on thargworld 9f, we already have a defensive position established there, at coords X/Y take this module and deploy it within the defensive perimeter established by a ring of turrets. once it has deployed, dock with it and transfer 60 cargo of AX munitions into it to establish a rearming pad to support our troops.

AEGIS/Imperial Navy/Federal Navy URGENTLY need to reestablish a facility we recently deployed on thargworld 6c which was recently badly damaged in a thargoid counter attack, we need a brave commander to go there and manually activate the repair protocols, operated by 4 levers within the main structure inside corridor 4B, be advised the area is hot with thargoid scouts, suggest taking wingmen for air cover - god speed CMDR!

Wing mission:
Anti Xeno forward facility fast construction mission Time to charge into tharg territory with unprecedent momentum, we need a wing of four cmdrs to each carry a module to the surface of klaxxia 3 and deploy their respective units simultaneously, your wake signatures may trip thargoid defenses, so AX turrets are advised for the deployment phase. Within 6 minutes of the last module being deployed, you will have a comprhensive shield network and defensive perimeter of turrets. Use the time inside this shield bubble to recharge your shields and any damage incurred during the deployment. Afterwards be ready to fight your way our of the planets gravity well to supercruise, AX ship launched fighters have been very successful on covering a retreating deployment wing on other missions. Be brave, think of the lives this base will save!

 

[askavir]

Here's another thought that hints towards spacelegs. In assassination missions I get frequently help requests from a stranded NPC. I was curious and fitted my ship with both repair and fuel limpets. It turned out that both are required, until they (usually a group of 3) jump away. I've never found any mission giver for this sort of mission (technically it's not even that) and unless it's meant as a test of your altruistic attitudes, it very much looks like an empty placeholder to me. Ideal for an EVA attempt, but certainly not for a combat ship that would have to waste 2 extra slots for the limpets.

It was added during Beyond "scenarios", it was an attempt at making the galaxy more lively by adding "random encounters". One of those is the classic scifi random encounter of finding a ship needing assistance.

The intention was good, but unfortunately FD failed to account for the fact that nobody outside the fuel rats ever carries around a fuel transfer limpet controller on the off-chance they might randomly find someone needing fuel.

Perhaps with future mechanics (like EVA) these scenarios will start making (more) sense.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Sorry I've lost the quote accreditation to this comment:

I mostly want to be able to get out of the pilot's chair in-flight, go into the back of the ship, and fix things. Like, a powerplant-repairing minigame. Probably more useful with multicrew (or have an NPC take over fighting for you? HA HA), and if you could have the penetrating beam weapons and whatever animated while inside the ship that would be pretty sweet.

They should also have a monitor that runs a spreadsheet program where you can save trade data from the stations you visit.

With out getting in too much of a details - Space Legs if utilized properly could open whole new level of gameplay - eva/zero g exploration, repairs, exploring ruins, meeting other commanders, fps, ship maintenance, seeing how interiors of our ships looks like.
Issue is - after how MC was implemented, I start to have doubts if FD can do space legs great.
But hey- I dont even need to have extremely amazing gameplay to go with it, just let me walk around my empt cockpit. Why? I dont know, its just cool thing to have.
And if you ask - what will you do if you get bored with SL? I answer with the question - what do you do when you are bored with driving SRV?

What did Neil Armstrong hope to do, climbing down from the lander, taking that "one small step for (a) man"?

What sort of game-play would I like/expect to see with bipedal locomotion? Well...

Inside my ship: Interaction with ship systems, conducting manual repairs of systems, patching hull breeches, interacting with Passengers, and yes, making a Captain's Log.

Outside my ship (in space): Conduct repairs, mend hull breeches, interact with data beacons, satellites and other objects in space with the kind of delicacy only human hands can managed.

Outside my ship (on planet surfaces): Repairs, collect core samples, interact with environmental objects, enter structures (outposts, camps, other facilities), explore caves and fissures too small for SRV's, place automated mining equipment, disconnect the waste reclamation line from my RemLock and very boldly go where no one has gone before.

Outside my ship (on a station/planetary installation): Interact with NPC's, hack terminals to steal data, plant viruses, bugs, even bombs. Break into restricted areas to "liberate information", such as new Engineer Blueprints, weapons designs, prototype modules, engage in CQC matches via telepresence, visit the Knowledge Repository and catch up on all the history, lore, backstory, retcons and other going-ons in an interactive manner, and yes, personally deliver a small load of biowaste.

All this, and never once a mention of Combat, but I expect there will be personal combat too.

I want to be able to walk in and around my ship so that I have a better feeling for how big it is.

I want to be able to go EVA in "combat aftermath" POIs and salvage other ships.

I want the option to interact with minor factions in space stations. When they offer a mission to deliver some cargo for a paltry sum, and I want to be able to walk down to their office and renegotiate. I also want there to be hidden missions that I can find by walking around - I want there to be organizations that don't count as minor factions, but still offer missions.

I want to be able to repair my ship, including my hull, by landing and working on it.

I want there to be places that SRVs can't go - forests, mountains, caves. I want to explore them on foot and collect stuff.

I want to interact with other players in a first or third-person perspective, not simply ship-to-ship. I want to be able to go to a bar (or whatever) in a station and see other players there (probably a "VR" bar where you see people from every station within 30 or 40 light years) and maybe make a friend or two or decide to wing up to get done.

But if you could get out of your ship on a landable body, ride your SRV to a collection point, get out and collect soil samples to take back to the bubble for big bonuses to exploration data, that could be cool. Walking around stations could be cool, all of it sounds great really. It just seems like a massive undertaking that is more immersive and cosmetic and probably not a top priority over atmospheric landings and gas giant surfing.

I think its pretty hard to have any meaningful interaction when stuck in a ship. All we do now is scan or shoot. an example is with the old generation ships that was found, all we did was scan them. For me it would be a lot more exiting and special if we could enter them and discover the dead bodies and what happened.

I want to be able to interact more fully with my ship and with other commanders and NPCs. I want to be able to walk around my ship - inside and out. I want to walk around the interiors of space stations and on planetary bases.

But as others have written, we need game play that takes advantage of this. Like landing and getting out of the ship to do repairs. Or going EVA to inspect a satellite or Nav Beacon. Or exploring the interiors of alien ships or derelict generation ships. Or meeting my underworld contact in a seedy bar. Or leaving my ship at one station, catching a liner or Megaship to other side of the bubble where I've left my other ship.

On the other hand, I don't really care about any First-Person Shooting. Good First-Person Shooting is hard to get right and many, much larger companies than Frontier have failed at it (consider how many AAA titles get it wrong).

I also think space legs will be easier and faster to implement than atmospheric planets.

For me, I want to be able to:

• Board enemy ships and fight the enemy crew in a first-person shooter style thing
• Defend my own ship from being boarded.

I think it would be really fun to attack a ship, not destroy it but board it, and steal/liberate certain bits of equipment or cargo etc once you have neutralised the enemy crew. Perhaps you are in deep space and have badly damaged your sheilds? Steal theirs etc. Then of course all of the bounty/mission opportunties for capturing pirates, rescuing captured ships/passengers etc.

Perhaps it would also be fun to have an option to do running-repairs to allow you to limp home if your ship is badly damanged - e.g. to patch up a badly damanged hull a bit, run a cable from the cockpit back down through to the engine bay to patch around a fried system, deconstruct the fuel scoop to get precious components to repair your life support system etc etc then limp back to a base as best you can hoping you dont get attacked or get too close to the sun with your 20%-at-best repairs. I can imagine a thrill of doing an emergency EVA if your canopy goes - you've got 5 mins to either get out there and fix it as best you can (if you ahve the materials etc), or make a dash for the nearest base; which do you choose?

Dont care about immersion, just the gameplay elements.

The people who don't understand why space legs are important just see Elite as a "Space ship game" and nothing more, that's fair enough. Others though want games to transcend boundaries and become more real and immersive, that to me is the fundamental difference and if someone only sees Elite as a space ship game then they will never understand those who want more and space legs is just the start.

In a world where they really take a good long run at it, stuff that complements the Helm role. Got an imagined version of Legs + Multicrew Engineer in my signature below (although it's very much a dream version, riffing on concept art). IE:

Could imagine simpler versions of MC, EVA, ship scavenging, planetary exploration, and stations interactions etc that could still be cool though, introduced in stages. Could imagine them being poop too . Depends in part if they can lavish a dev run on them that's at least comparable to the initial dev of the core game. Big ask.

Perhaps making things done with legs more EFFECTIVE

Use the AFMU and you get 90% recovery. Get out of your chair, go fix the unit, gets you 100% recovery.
Buy commodities via the main menu, you get normal pricing. Get out of your chair, visit the broker, and you get a 5% discount.
Destroy an assassination target, you get the payout. Disable him, board the ship and kill him in FPS combat, you get the payout plus a bonus for collecting his hard drive.
Other stuffz..

Pretty much this.

It should open more options available to you to play the game. New ways to get materials, new ways to get missions, new places to explore that you can't in your ship. Missions could actually feel like a mission or a mini quest of some kind with multiple parts to it instead of the usual one.

Exactly. So there should be no "but I don't wanna be forced to get out of my chair to do missions" excuses or other B S I always see when space legs threads pop up. It's old, no duh people want to pretend that everybody is perma-paraplegic like WALL-E style, but that shouldn't mean that everyone else should suffer through the crap we currently go through in the game.

I could never understand those arguments either. When/if it releases it will be an optional expansion, so how it will force people to use their legs is beyond me. I also can't stand the "if I wanted COD in space" I would buy COD. For some bizarre reason some people seem to think that as soon as space legs gets implemented we will completely forget how to fly our ships and just mindlessly run around shooting stuff instead.

Personally, I’m hoping that when Elite Feet is added, it’ll be a way to find “off the books” missions in the game, those that haven’t been scrubbed by the Pilots Federation in a way that removes most of the risk from accepting a mission. Sting operations, employer betrayal, proper smuggling, backroom deals, espionage... the Elite Universe was once borrowed heavily from the cyberpunk genre. It would be nice if the darker parts of this universe were available to play in.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

There's a lot of debate about when or if space legs are going to be a thing and that has raised an enormous question in my mind. Why? As in why are so many people so focussed on the apparent need for the ability to walk around. Whether it be your ship, on stations, on outposts, on planetary surfaces...

To me the "why" is/has been obvious. It is a single change that will have the most impact on game mechanics. CMDRs become people, rather than a futuristic version of Pixar's "Cars".

What happens if the legs are mandatory?

Due to the nature of paid-for expansions, it will not be mandatory.

Or how about commodity trading? Do I have to walk to the market office? Walk back?

See above

On planets. Do I have to leave the SRV to collect materials? Interact with biological features?

I am assuming that there might be extra ways to interact with these, but existing methods using the SRV would remain the same.

A lot of the dissatisfaction with ED seems to stem from just how long things take to achieve. Whether it be planetary scanning, ordinary mundane travel, supercruise, you-name-it. How does having legs do anything other than make matters even worse in that regard? Sure, it's immersive, but immersion for is own sake?

I agree here. Elite is caught between being a simulation and a game. This becomes evident with things like long travel times. Hopefully legs gameplay will tend to be a little more fast paced.

Then there's the FPS aspect (if it is there). How does that even begin to work? I don't mean to suggest that some players wouldn't love the ability to show off their Halo skills. Or their Battlefield 'n' skills. I didn't buy Elite to play Halo or Battlefield 'n' and I'm sure most others didn't either, so why? Isn't that going to be just another distraction from whatever it was you set out to do. Sure, I can stay in PGs or Solo to avoid other players, but you just know there'll be an NPC vs player version or otherwise the Solo/PG crowd would be up in arms complaining they are missing out.

First of all, Elite is already a FPS game. So its not that wild. i doubt that the game will become Halo or Battlefield overnight. Additionally, the base game is not getting removed at any point, new things are being added to it. i am sure that if people want to avoid the new stuff, they can. this has always been the case (for better or worse) with elite.

I'm sorry, but the more I think about it the less attractive the idea becomes. Space legs in Elite is one of those options that ticks all the right boxes right up to the point where you start to think of the impact it would have on the game's unique selling point: It's a space-flight game. Legs, for immersion? Sure! For practicality and without adding way too much busywork in the form of 'walk here, pick up that, walk back' and variations thereof? Not so much.

Again, it seems to me that you are thinking in terms of shoehorning elite feet into current features / content. I find that it is much more useful to think of the things that become an option once a CMDR is unbolted from the chair.

Things like a "heist" or assault mission where on CMDR flies the get away ship, drops off 2-3 friends at an instillation for them to sneak or fight their way in or through, then pick them up on the other side.

Additionally, ship delivery missions become an option. Fly this VIP's yacht from one location to another, and any damage comes out of your paycheck. Also being a passenger on a ship bound for far-off Colonia. Head down to the ship arcade and play a little CQC to pass the time.

The options are really endless.

I'll not jump aboard a hype train till FDEV announces the destination.

Some wise advise here. I would add that we shouldn't harp on a feature for being bad before we know implementation either.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Your fantasy is endless, while the possibilities are technically very limited.

Care to elaborate on what is "technically very limited"? Suggestions in my post seem quite reasonable/ feasible. Of course we are limited to fantasizing until there are actual substantive announcements

 

[o2thaZ]

If space legs is going to be the new era someone can haz my stuffz

 

[VR Golgot]

If space legs is going to be the new era someone can haz my stuffz

Bagsy your space leggings!

 

[Wrecked]

so you judge the games by the stramers not by the number of players.
I would reply that since in SC you can't have most of the ships if you don't pay hundreds of dollars it is obvious that most people watch others playing instead of play.
moreover SC have a lot of streamers because people that spend thousand of dollars try to monetize their investment and even because some of them are payed by CIG itself to stream.
to me is exactly the opposite of what you infer with that image. The more the streamers the less the people that effectively play the game.

Any way you try to slice it, SC is the more publicly popular game. Twitch is like an ever present advertisement for games. Popular games bring more viewers, which increases exposure and leads to more sales. If streamers are incentivize by viewers, then obviously they will play a game that is more popular. Games become popular when people stream them and others find them interesting to watch. SC and ED are targeting the same genre... with one difference... you are a person in one game and a ship in the other. Being a person is more popular.

Furthermore, your argument that more people watching means less people playing is just wrong. Fortnite, League of Legends, Counter-Strike all have millions of players and a huge Twitch following. You can have both. It’s all about popularity.