More and more I'm starting to think that this is the true divide. I used to think it was Open or Solo, then PvP or PvE, then player-group or not-player-group ... but more and more I think the real differences of opinion amongst the player base stem from whether one is engaging in competition or not. The vehicle for the competition is for some entirely outside of Open, of course.
Why task-kill combat logging in Solo is a cheat and can affect others
- Thread starter Truesilver
- Start date
More and more I'm starting to think that this is the true divide. I used to think it was Open or Solo, then PvP or PvE, then player-group or not-player-group ... but more and more I think the real differences of opinion amongst the player base stem from whether one is engaging in competition or not. The vehicle for the competition is for some entirely outside of Open, of course.
That's fair enough - and it's up to players to choose what they see as "competition" in Elite if they want to see Elite as a competitive game. Wether in Open or Solo, playing the BGS or killing only other CMDR's, getting screenies of the most beautiful spots on the galaxy, or getting the most obnoxious CMDR names recorded onto as many systems as possible.
To a degree the only truly competitive action is exploration, as that is a permanent record that survives CMDR rename without extensive dev intervention. Everything else is always at least in a state of flux, and can be helped or hindered by the actions of other CMDR's.
You can ask me to care about this when I show up to kill 12 skimmers and there are at least 12 skimmers to kill, or 38 pirates, or whatever mission objective I have to complete but reset an instance in order to complete it.
It's possible to crash the transaction server by just trying to buy system explore data where you've scanned everything except asteroids because FDev forgot to test for divide by 0, or they forgot that asteroids are worth 0 when scanned so the system throws a hissy fit thinking OMG UR CHEATERING SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING because you tried to buy system explore data for 0.
Either way it gives me 0 confidence in FDev's ability to avoid false positives in any possible automatic "anti-cheat" measure they might come up with.
Either way it gives me 0 confidence in FDev's ability to avoid false positives in any possible automatic "anti-cheat" measure they might come up with.
If there was a save/reload feature, there'd be a lot less combat logging. Design decisions led to this player behaviour.
An understandable misapprehension but ...
... actually I have fought piracy for over 18 months and spent almost a year with Adle's Armada defending new players around Eravate - I have never harmed anyone outside of the Wanted, Powerplay or KoS enemies ... so although I am a reasonably prolific playa-killa I think my killing falls on the 'right' side of this forum's morality.
Indeed, as I've said in many other posts with examples, my main concern over combat logging is that it tends to be those who are most responsible for slaughtering new players who do the most logging (contrary to the forum memes...)
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Funny thread. I must know how you see people in solo cheating?
Nothing wrong with that. If you found your gameplay in Elite to be most exciting and fun for you by being in a group, defending N00bs, maintaining your rules of engagement, and enjoying pew-pew against specified targets then that's great. It's legitimate gameplay, and it's not breaking any rules.
Now, the ganker lulzbunnies roaming round exploding N00bs in wings of combat ships for teh lulz are doing the same thing, just from a different perspective. It's legitimate gameplay, and it's not breaking any rules.
The people flying fat, juicy trade ships around just to initiate logoff as soon as another player appears and deploys hardpoints are doing the same thing, from yet another perspective. It's legitimate gameplay, and it's not breaking any rules.
The people getting into combat with other players, and initiating actual cheats - are not legitimate players, and they should be sanctioned.
FD are listening indeed but then simply ignoring our feedback and suggestions. They acknowledge our posts and then mind their own business of adding more and more unfinished content. No dev updates, no ETAs, no statement regarding season two, general inaccurate predicitions and unexperienced dev-players. They are bad at their own game.
Combat logging was supposed to be a 'serious' topic and nothing has been done. Nothing. Go in space, remove all stellar bodies and tell me what you see. I see the work of FD regarding combat logging.
There are two simple steps to counter combat logging in all scenarios:
1. Refresh timer when taking damage
2. Taskkill/DC results in ship destruction if in a combat scenario.
But no. Nothing is done or even said in that case.
Because of combat loggers people destroy other players without a reason but the reason is "What one doesn't pay, pay the others on top."
Combat logging was supposed to be a 'serious' topic and nothing has been done. Nothing. Go in space, remove all stellar bodies and tell me what you see. I see the work of FD regarding combat logging.
There are two simple steps to counter combat logging in all scenarios:
1. Refresh timer when taking damage
2. Taskkill/DC results in ship destruction if in a combat scenario.
But no. Nothing is done or even said in that case.
Because of combat loggers people destroy other players without a reason but the reason is "What one doesn't pay, pay the others on top."
These armchair netcode devs are quite something, yes.
They are at least thinking - which is always something to commend.
Hate to say this (being a player in one of those juicy fat trade ships) I tend to avoid combat at all cost so running from a ship that's pulled me out of SC is out of the question player controlled or not as I can't out run the ship in question and I'd personally not want to rebuy the ship (even though I easily can do so) just to get pulled again, I don't support cheating but I also don't want my gameplay ruined. If I wanted to fight is be in my vulture or my courier in a rez site it combat zone. I also think people who harass new players (let's say anyone with less than 5 hours of game play time) are going to be the death of this game and think that they should receive an extremely harsh penalty. If you want my opinion on this penalty it should be a 500 million credit bounty, they're visible for 6 hours even after they log off with last know position being broadcast every 15 minutes, they're not able to dock at any stations, and if their ship is destroyed within that 6 hour window it can not be rebought.
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As to the ship destruction on a disconnect all it would take us ONE false positive to undermine that whole system.
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As to the ship destruction on a disconnect all it would take us ONE false positive to undermine that whole system.
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True, but when I think of a blatantly simple fix for some problem, and the ones who are supposed to be experts haven't done that, my first assumption is not that I know better than the experts.
Now that is an interesting idea.
N00b immunity for 5 or so game hours could be both useful to noobs, entertaining for noob protectors, and frustrating for noobkillers
Yep, what you're saying can be summed up with "crime and punishment needs a serious overhaul".
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Now that is an interesting idea.
N00b immunity for 5 or so game hours could be both useful to noobs, entertaining for noob protectors, and frustrating for noobkillers
That's a special case of the PvE flag though, which I think got shot down by FD for technical reasons.
Very true Faybs - but you and I both know we are not experts on the inner workings of Elites infrastructure and backend.
Where most of the "game X does Y so Elite must do B so it's the same as Idea A" proponents fail is that they don't seem to understand that I, and only I, am the expert on my infrastructure and backend
Same goes for anyone who knows anything about computing.
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Indeed - but as an accountwide flag it would be "do-able" but messy. If N00b is a real noob, then it would be fairly simple to use in-game timer on a "real" basis, if it's a pretend noob then all sorts of instance flags would make it hard to tell real time.
Yeah - probably not a good idea.
In a nutshell and it shouldn't be too hard to imminent a few lines of code that check play time (which is tracked if you look at your stats in game)
If under attack check attacker
Is attacker AI
If no then check play time
If <300 minutes add invulnerability
Not proper code I know but you get the idea there needs to be some kind of buffer for new players so they don't shy away from ever playing again (or at least ever playing in open and interacting with chance met players.
Again that is easy to defeat by simply not sending any data back until the timer completes.
We're getting too close to actual details here.
We're getting too close to actual details here.