I was in a system just now, it showed me a HG-USS over 470,000 LS away and gave me only 4:30 to get there. Right.
Why the FSS is better than the previous system.
- Thread starter Miko
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I was in a system just now, it showed me a HG-USS over 470,000 LS away and gave me only 4:30 to get there. Right.
I like the new system, I accomplished something this morning that I thought I would never do - qualify for Prof Palin. Never would have done that under the old system, but last night and this morning did it with easy, scanning every system I dropped into and mapping anything that took my fancy. There is no way I could have done the same under the old system, at most it would have been a honk and scoop and it would have felt boring to me. This new system will get me out exploring way more than I thought I would, already started planning my next trip
All you had to do to unlock Professor Palin was go 5000 LY from your point of origin in-game and then bring him 25 sensor fragments. Easily obtainable, if you know how to collect sensor fragments you can collect them in under 1 hour. It had nothing to do with scanning the systems.
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Thank you Captain Obvious, I would never have known that ….
You missed the intent of my post, I knew exactly what I had to do in regard to the 5k trip, I just didn't want to do it with the utterly boring, mind numbing jump honk scoop mechanic. After testing the new system in Beta, I had enough confidence in it that I knew the journey would be at least interesting to me. And please, if you can do a 5,000 ly journey in and collect the sensor fragments in an hour I would be surprised!
People have different tastes. Some might like messing around with bits and bobs on a map to "explorer."
I'd rather pilot my ships around in the cosmos. It's sort of like a hike off the beaten trail to see what's out in the woods, only in space. Wish the game offered a bit more of that sort of gameplay.
An option like needing an extra module for black bodies out in the black after the honk would be aces.
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@OP
The FSS provides you with ALL the system information from the blue blobs minigame.
That's great if you want to be efficient, but it requires no skill, knowledge or experience to use. Everything is handed to you on a plate.
That, to me, is the complete opposite of exploration.
For all its faults, the old ADS did at least require you to make decisions about how much exploration you wanted to do in a system - and I personally enjoyed flying around in my spaceship doing that.
Now you argue that one can still fly around to probe planets, but that process is just another skill-, knowledge- and experience-free minigame that's impossible to lose.
The result of that mini-game is, once again, having all the information provided to you on a plate - every POI is precisely mapped, leaving no actual exploration to be done.
In short, the new mechanism is even more 'godly' than the ADS and I get no joy from it.
The FSS provides you with ALL the system information from the blue blobs minigame.
That's great if you want to be efficient, but it requires no skill, knowledge or experience to use. Everything is handed to you on a plate.
That, to me, is the complete opposite of exploration.
For all its faults, the old ADS did at least require you to make decisions about how much exploration you wanted to do in a system - and I personally enjoyed flying around in my spaceship doing that.
Now you argue that one can still fly around to probe planets, but that process is just another skill-, knowledge- and experience-free minigame that's impossible to lose.
The result of that mini-game is, once again, having all the information provided to you on a plate - every POI is precisely mapped, leaving no actual exploration to be done.
In short, the new mechanism is even more 'godly' than the ADS and I get no joy from it.
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People have been suggesting all day that the FSS is faster and that's sold it for them. Yeah people definitely do like different things in elite.
Me too.
Ive had to call it because its endless, but i spent too much time on wednesday and thursday mapping systems in the bubble which suddenly are possible to first discover. They take a long time each too! Flying around dssing is turning out to be a top experience! Yeah i also think it should be interesting to see the feedback after the first weekend when the main wave comes in and gives it a go. Looking around the forums there a few demographics falling off or having a tough time with it.
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I can see how if you are a dedicated explorer or really like that aspect of ED, that you might like or really prefer the new FSS system vs old. Out there in the black, it's -something- to do. It gives you the true sense of actually manually -exploring-. Totally get that.
But if you're trying to use exploring mechanics (as in you are using exploration functions but not really -Exploring!-) in or near the bubble, it is a detestable, horrible mini-game time sink for me. KEYWORDS "for me".
I don't say it is or demand it has to be for anyone else. I'm just saying for me it sucks, big time. But also concede if I were to go out on a pure exploration voyage, it would be nice to have actual manipulation things to DO while in the black - because exploration before was more a mental game, do I go scan that planet, is that a earth or water like planet, etc - you weren't 'at the controls' like when you are firing weapons for combat, or mining tools for mining, etc.
So I totally see why dedicated explorers wanted their own version of 'exploration tools' just like combat, mining, surface scanning etc has. But I also see and say, that when I'm just mostly in the bubble, it totally and without mitigation sucks. Big time.
I liked and prefer instant reveal of non-mapped bodies in system, I liked honk and go with the previous all revealed but not identified just fine. I detest the FSS mini-game. I would prefer a means that explorers could still have manual exploration tools but allow in-bubble and near bubble old system of honk=reveal all.
But if you're trying to use exploring mechanics (as in you are using exploration functions but not really -Exploring!-) in or near the bubble, it is a detestable, horrible mini-game time sink for me. KEYWORDS "for me".
I don't say it is or demand it has to be for anyone else. I'm just saying for me it sucks, big time. But also concede if I were to go out on a pure exploration voyage, it would be nice to have actual manipulation things to DO while in the black - because exploration before was more a mental game, do I go scan that planet, is that a earth or water like planet, etc - you weren't 'at the controls' like when you are firing weapons for combat, or mining tools for mining, etc.
So I totally see why dedicated explorers wanted their own version of 'exploration tools' just like combat, mining, surface scanning etc has. But I also see and say, that when I'm just mostly in the bubble, it totally and without mitigation sucks. Big time.
I liked and prefer instant reveal of non-mapped bodies in system, I liked honk and go with the previous all revealed but not identified just fine. I detest the FSS mini-game. I would prefer a means that explorers could still have manual exploration tools but allow in-bubble and near bubble old system of honk=reveal all.
See, that's something I think FDev have overlooked.
The Honk might have been overly-simplistic but it did leave room for intuition, understanding and experience to be a benefit for the explorer.
An experienced explorer could honk, look at the sysmap and then make decisions about whether a system was worth further examination or not.
Sure, you might miss stuff (a lot of stuff) but it'd be you, the player, who made the difference - unless you were prepared to doggedly explore every body in every system you visited.
Now we're just drones, machine-minders, technological bureaucrats.
We honk, twiddle some controls and then the data is presented to us.
As long as you can operate the FSS, you're as good as the most experienced explorer in the galaxy.
I'm a bit conflicted about this.
On the one hand, I do like the idea of having the ability to find everything.
OTOH, I think experience and understanding should count for something.
Pretty sure the new system was designed with "surveyors" in mind rather than "explorers", TBH.
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Exactly this.
It's a great system if you want to discover things - as evidenced by all the people celebrating how much quicker the FSS is - but terrible if you want to explore.
New system is great.
Old system was rubbish.
That's what I reckon.
Old system was rubbish.
That's what I reckon.
a) not requiring modules is great for non-explorers as you wrote, it is completely pointless for explorers. As you wrote, now even a fully combat optimized ship can be used for basic exploration, removing the consequence of having to use an exploration ship. This makes the game more shallow.
b) no skill is required for the FSS and the decision to map a planet has nothing to do with skill, the results of the FSS shows the non-explorer what planet has an increased credit value for mapping. the old system required a little bit of skill to identify some of the planets based on the look and the sound of it (some metal worlds could look very similar to earth likes), now the FSS just tells the player that information.
c) explorers will now have to take much more time to map the system as they not only have to fly to the objects, but spend some time shooting probes at it.
And in the bubble the player will get constantly interdicted by NPCs. Interrupting the scanning/mapping process for absolutely no gameplay gain.
But I understand the new FSS and mapping probes system is much more casual friendly than the old system.
I like the new system. At first I was hesitant because I thought 50 planets would take forever. But then it grew on me and I can get through 20 planets in less than 5 minutes where one can just flip through a recognized body and move on to the next. It also helps the multiple belt parts and some resource sites on rings are automatically scanned after scanning one or the major body. And I think it's keeping with the lore of the ED world. The FSS obviously operates using frame-shifted scanning methods travelling FTL. It's also on par or just a bit more advanced than sci-fi tropes such as Star Trek's long range scanners. The DS probes are nice too where they do more fine tuned scanning of a body for anomalies or signals. I could never take the time to scour up and down lat/lon a planetoid looking for a special geographic structure or alien vegetation.
I think it's still exploring in it's own way too. ED is an intergalactic game where we aren't confined to a single or small number of stellar systems. So there are thousands to millions of uncharted star systems to explore.
(Star Trek: TMP "sensor drone") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbG3N51MEjM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m21s
I think it's still exploring in it's own way too. ED is an intergalactic game where we aren't confined to a single or small number of stellar systems. So there are thousands to millions of uncharted star systems to explore.
(Star Trek: TMP "sensor drone") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbG3N51MEjM&feature=youtu.be&t=3m21s
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Rep to OP, I fully agree. The old honk was a horrible immersion-breaking placeholder using faster-than-light magic to scan a system.
And now it's possible to actually find interesting things on planets. Last night I found giant space melons on a planet in my home system. Got a lot of Selenium from them too. Driving around looking for chondrites is a thing of the past.
BTW the Cobra is now great for planetary surface exploration, now that you can usefully carry both SRV and DSS, with plenty of thrust for high-g landings.
And now it's possible to actually find interesting things on planets. Last night I found giant space melons on a planet in my home system. Got a lot of Selenium from them too. Driving around looking for chondrites is a thing of the past.
BTW the Cobra is now great for planetary surface exploration, now that you can usefully carry both SRV and DSS, with plenty of thrust for high-g landings.
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Factually incorrect. You don't need to use the FSS in the bubble at all. It's like the old system in previously tagged places, but even more automated now. So you're complaining about an imaginary problems here.
Imo, this is actually something of a downside since I need to travel about 1000 LY to even experience the new FSS properly away from communal discoveries.
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From a reformed ADS-aholic...
OK I posted this in another related thread and now here because it's relevant...
Many of you will know that over the years I've fought and fought any ideas to remove the ADS.
Frankly, now that I played with the FSS in the betas, now that I've been playing since 3.3's release, I can never go back to the old ADS. Here's why...
I'm currently heading towards my previously discovered Earthlike worlds, starting with one which is above the galactic centre. About 10.5 kylies from Colonia from where I've set off. Haven't reached there yet because on the way over I've discovered a new ELW, have gone visiting a few geological locations, and have discovered quite a few terraformable HMC's and Water Worlds, for which I feel compelled to fully surface map
"The Honk-when-you-enter-a-new-system is gone! "
Actually no it's not. You can in fact jump and insta-honk, after mapping the honk to one of your buttons. I have it mapped to my joystick button as before. And you simply keep your ship in Exploration mode as you jump. The honk is still there! Just like old times.
So the technique I use now is Hyperjump----Fwip into a new system---Honk whilst fuel scooping. This does a couple of things...
1) You instantly get a body count.
2) You instantly get; A) Every star in the system fully scanned. B) Any close orbiting bodies (e.g. planets) fully scanned.
My Captain's Log application ( ) updates with this information as well. It tells me the total number of stars and planets which have been scanned in that system so far. So now I can tell if that total matches the body count the FSS honk gave me earlier. If there's more to find then...
After scooping is complete, I fly away from the jump-in star, watching the speed until it counts up to about 12c - this is because it's better to fly away from the jump-in star before using the FSS because the closer you are to the star the more likely it will obscure bodies on the other side of it - then set throttle to zero and activate the FSS view.
By now I'm well versed with the frequency indicator at the bottom. I can instantly tell if there are ELW's, Water Worlds, Ammonia Worlds, HMC's, Icy Bodies etc. etc. Depending on how I'm feeling/what I'm wanting to do at the time, if all there is is HMC's and Icy Bodies and one or more Gas Giants, I'll either stay and scan, or move on to the next jump. Exactly as the ADS days. If there's a Water World and/or ELW then of course the decision has been made to stay for a bit. If I'm feeling like looking for some nice icy moons or rocky moons with canyons and such I'll stay and scan - a good clue to that is having a Gas Giant signal and Icy Body and Rocky/HMC signals - there's bound to be moonlets here, hopefully with volcanism, let's find out.
"It takes too long to scan using the FSS! Large body-count-systems are a nightmare! "
I thought that would be the case. I completely surveyed a 61-body system last night.
Here's the thing: The time it takes to scan something like a 61-body system is offset by...
1) You do not have to fly to each and every one of those 61 bodies. Imagine the time it takes to fly to them all. A lot of those might be orbiting stars which are Hutton Orbital distances away from the jump-in star, and be honest with yourself; how many of you actually bothered to fly that far using the old ADS system and you saw just how distant they were? I'd wager only one or two of you. I for one couldn't be bothered most of the time. Only exception would be if there was an ELW that far away - and even then I've simply not bothered and jumped on.
2) You get a full surface scan for each of those planets without having to fly to them. Again, imagine how long it would have taken to fly to each and every one of those 61 bodies and wait for the surface scanner to stop twirling and tell you a result.
Summary: It's actually much, much faster to fully survey an entire star system. You'll even get a UC credit bonus for a full survey.
You now have full information on that 61-body system. You can now decide which bodies to specifically fly to, whether that's to Probe Map them because they're a terraformable HMC or Water World, Ammonia World, ELW, or whether it's that enticing-looking moonlet which has canyons and/or volcanism. Or just for the heck of it.
Probe mapping, by the way, is bloody awesome in and of itself! It's a very enjoyable break from FSS scanning and jumping, and it gives you an incentive to fly over to a body. And it has been fun perfecting my technique for getting a probe mapping efficiency bonus - I'm at 100% body-for-body now
Basically, I cannot bear to go back to the old ADS now. I've seen the light. I'm fully on board with the new FSS mechanics. Once you have set your control schema for the FSS, HUD mode, probe mapping, to something you're comfortable with, then Exploration just got a whole heap more enjoyable and rewarding for your time.
And lastly - of course, the above is just my completely subjective opinion and experience. I'm not trying to convince everyone else that This Is The One And Only Opinion You Should Hold. Not at all. I'm just saying why I find the new exploration mechanics to be far superior to the old!
Regards o7
OK I posted this in another related thread and now here because it's relevant...
Many of you will know that over the years I've fought and fought any ideas to remove the ADS.
Frankly, now that I played with the FSS in the betas, now that I've been playing since 3.3's release, I can never go back to the old ADS. Here's why...
I'm currently heading towards my previously discovered Earthlike worlds, starting with one which is above the galactic centre. About 10.5 kylies from Colonia from where I've set off. Haven't reached there yet because on the way over I've discovered a new ELW, have gone visiting a few geological locations, and have discovered quite a few terraformable HMC's and Water Worlds, for which I feel compelled to fully surface map
"The Honk-when-you-enter-a-new-system is gone!
"Actually no it's not. You can in fact jump and insta-honk, after mapping the honk to one of your buttons. I have it mapped to my joystick button as before. And you simply keep your ship in Exploration mode as you jump. The honk is still there! Just like old times.
So the technique I use now is Hyperjump----Fwip into a new system---Honk whilst fuel scooping. This does a couple of things...
1) You instantly get a body count.
2) You instantly get; A) Every star in the system fully scanned. B) Any close orbiting bodies (e.g. planets) fully scanned.
My Captain's Log application (
) updates with this information as well. It tells me the total number of stars and planets which have been scanned in that system so far. So now I can tell if that total matches the body count the FSS honk gave me earlier. If there's more to find then...After scooping is complete, I fly away from the jump-in star, watching the speed until it counts up to about 12c - this is because it's better to fly away from the jump-in star before using the FSS because the closer you are to the star the more likely it will obscure bodies on the other side of it - then set throttle to zero and activate the FSS view.
By now I'm well versed with the frequency indicator at the bottom. I can instantly tell if there are ELW's, Water Worlds, Ammonia Worlds, HMC's, Icy Bodies etc. etc. Depending on how I'm feeling/what I'm wanting to do at the time, if all there is is HMC's and Icy Bodies and one or more Gas Giants, I'll either stay and scan, or move on to the next jump. Exactly as the ADS days. If there's a Water World and/or ELW then of course the decision has been made to stay for a bit. If I'm feeling like looking for some nice icy moons or rocky moons with canyons and such I'll stay and scan - a good clue to that is having a Gas Giant signal and Icy Body and Rocky/HMC signals - there's bound to be moonlets here, hopefully with volcanism, let's find out.
"It takes too long to scan using the FSS! Large body-count-systems are a nightmare!
"I thought that would be the case. I completely surveyed a 61-body system last night.
Here's the thing: The time it takes to scan something like a 61-body system is offset by...
1) You do not have to fly to each and every one of those 61 bodies. Imagine the time it takes to fly to them all. A lot of those might be orbiting stars which are Hutton Orbital distances away from the jump-in star, and be honest with yourself; how many of you actually bothered to fly that far using the old ADS system and you saw just how distant they were? I'd wager only one or two of you. I for one couldn't be bothered most of the time. Only exception would be if there was an ELW that far away - and even then I've simply not bothered and jumped on.
2) You get a full surface scan for each of those planets without having to fly to them. Again, imagine how long it would have taken to fly to each and every one of those 61 bodies and wait for the surface scanner to stop twirling and tell you a result.
Summary: It's actually much, much faster to fully survey an entire star system. You'll even get a UC credit bonus for a full survey.
You now have full information on that 61-body system. You can now decide which bodies to specifically fly to, whether that's to Probe Map them because they're a terraformable HMC or Water World, Ammonia World, ELW, or whether it's that enticing-looking moonlet which has canyons and/or volcanism. Or just for the heck of it.
Probe mapping, by the way, is bloody awesome in and of itself! It's a very enjoyable break from FSS scanning and jumping, and it gives you an incentive to fly over to a body. And it has been fun perfecting my technique for getting a probe mapping efficiency bonus - I'm at 100% body-for-body now
Basically, I cannot bear to go back to the old ADS now. I've seen the light. I'm fully on board with the new FSS mechanics. Once you have set your control schema for the FSS, HUD mode, probe mapping, to something you're comfortable with, then Exploration just got a whole heap more enjoyable and rewarding for your time.
And lastly - of course, the above is just my completely subjective opinion and experience. I'm not trying to convince everyone else that This Is The One And Only Opinion You Should Hold. Not at all. I'm just saying why I find the new exploration mechanics to be far superior to the old!
Regards o7
I also dare to add that I like the new system. I mean, is it perfect? Not at all. There are some things which also annoy me a lot. I still want to be able to use FSS and the probes while the ship is moving. Even more so, it should be possible to move the ship while a crew member is operating these things. That's my biggest gripe here. The "lock throttle to zero" is highly annoying.
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My number two on the list of things to improve would be to still give us the ships scanner on the bottom of the screen when in one of the new tools. I really want to have some information on what's happening around me, while I am looking at the FSS/DSS. I see and understand that they can't just put those new displays into the cockpit. Just look at all those threads about key bindings. People repeatedly get told that they can double-bind. It's the only way to handle the additional controls. And this is only possible as the scanners are on separate screens. The separation is a necessity there. But as we can't have the FSS/DSS interface while being in the ships cockpit, duplicating the ships scanner into the new displays would really make things much better.
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Outside of those two things, I personally am very happy with the exploration method. Exploration finally is gameplay. The game was getting a lot of heat since launch, as people rightfully stated that a bit part of exploration is just jumping to a system and holding one button for five seconds. This was fixed. Now exploration feels like you're exploring.
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Last not least, I had the worries that the new method of scanning would be too simple. Nothing to learn and improve there, just more effort for the same result. But while the FSS at the start looks very random, you can learn and improve on handling it. (Darkfyre99 wrote that up better than I ever could. Check here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-FSS-A-pictoral-guide-to-discovering-a-system )
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So it is simple enough to be used by most people, you can also get your success by randomly scanning around, but you can actually learn and improve.
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My second worries was that it would be too hard for some people, they would campaign for things to be nerfed, FD would give in and it would be reduced to the braindead tedium I was afraid of. Neither of these happened. Don't get me wrong, the campaign to nerf it all and make it as simple as stupid as possible was present in the beta forums. It had plenty of followers. But luckily FD did not give in this time.
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Thus against my expectations, FD actually managed to get to the right spot. A system which is easy enough to get into, yet can be learned and you can actually get better in using it, so it's not capped out at the lowest beginner level.
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And no, you don't need to study astrophysics to use it. It's also not completely realistic. Which in a game with spaceships moving faster than light is not the prime criteria, in my eyes. But for being a "simulator" game of something which can't really exist according to our current understanding of the universe, the new mechanics are at a good spot between accessibility, providing the feeling of being sophisticated and actually even giving you the chance of learning and improving a bit on its use.
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My number two on the list of things to improve would be to still give us the ships scanner on the bottom of the screen when in one of the new tools. I really want to have some information on what's happening around me, while I am looking at the FSS/DSS. I see and understand that they can't just put those new displays into the cockpit. Just look at all those threads about key bindings. People repeatedly get told that they can double-bind. It's the only way to handle the additional controls. And this is only possible as the scanners are on separate screens. The separation is a necessity there. But as we can't have the FSS/DSS interface while being in the ships cockpit, duplicating the ships scanner into the new displays would really make things much better.
.
Outside of those two things, I personally am very happy with the exploration method. Exploration finally is gameplay. The game was getting a lot of heat since launch, as people rightfully stated that a bit part of exploration is just jumping to a system and holding one button for five seconds. This was fixed. Now exploration feels like you're exploring.
.
Last not least, I had the worries that the new method of scanning would be too simple. Nothing to learn and improve there, just more effort for the same result. But while the FSS at the start looks very random, you can learn and improve on handling it. (Darkfyre99 wrote that up better than I ever could. Check here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-FSS-A-pictoral-guide-to-discovering-a-system )
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So it is simple enough to be used by most people, you can also get your success by randomly scanning around, but you can actually learn and improve.
.
My second worries was that it would be too hard for some people, they would campaign for things to be nerfed, FD would give in and it would be reduced to the braindead tedium I was afraid of. Neither of these happened. Don't get me wrong, the campaign to nerf it all and make it as simple as stupid as possible was present in the beta forums. It had plenty of followers. But luckily FD did not give in this time.
.
Thus against my expectations, FD actually managed to get to the right spot. A system which is easy enough to get into, yet can be learned and you can actually get better in using it, so it's not capped out at the lowest beginner level.
.
And no, you don't need to study astrophysics to use it. It's also not completely realistic. Which in a game with spaceships moving faster than light is not the prime criteria, in my eyes. But for being a "simulator" game of something which can't really exist according to our current understanding of the universe, the new mechanics are at a good spot between accessibility, providing the feeling of being sophisticated and actually even giving you the chance of learning and improving a bit on its use.
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Yes, you were. And you have my full respect. There's few people around here, who don't just change their mind, but also are so open to admit that they did so and why they did.
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It requires some cojones to do that. Kudos to you!
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I'm genuinely at a loss here. After all my explanations, I'm still seeing this argument that the new system lacks skill and hands everything to you on a plate. For real? The old system was a simple honk and everything WAS revealed instantly. All you then had to do was lock onto the goodies viewed on the system map and fly upto them. Zero skill was involved.
The way I see it, there are only two pictures here. The old method and the new. The new method requires more skill than the old, right? Regardless of being easy once figured out, it still requires actual skill versus the old method. How can that be disputed?
Whether you like the new method or not and had some other vision in mind, I genuinely cannot wrap my head around some of the logic here which to me contradicts itself when put up against the new system that also includes the new feature of probing, which allows for players to enjoy that supercruising towards the more valuable bodies they discover, should they opt in to doing so, and in particular, if they argue they liked that element from the old surface scanning method.
The way I see it, there are only two pictures here. The old method and the new. The new method requires more skill than the old, right? Regardless of being easy once figured out, it still requires actual skill versus the old method. How can that be disputed?
Whether you like the new method or not and had some other vision in mind, I genuinely cannot wrap my head around some of the logic here which to me contradicts itself when put up against the new system that also includes the new feature of probing, which allows for players to enjoy that supercruising towards the more valuable bodies they discover, should they opt in to doing so, and in particular, if they argue they liked that element from the old surface scanning method.
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I have two gripes with the new system:
It involves two unfailable mini-games.
It spoonfeeds you all the information you need to find everything in a system, without requiring you to actually EXPLORE.
With the FSS every system is the essentially the same, regardless of the layout it's just a bunch of blue blobs, which reduces the 'gameplay' to repetition of the same set of activities.
The ADS, for all it's faults, did leave some information hidden at each stage requiring you to actually explore a system, rather than just surveying it.
I'd prefer a system that limits the information available at each stage which allows skill/knowledge/experience to guide the decision-making process for what to do in each system.