Why the FSS is better than the previous system.

[Miko]

So some complaint has been made on the FSS being too quick and too easy, yet tedious with 50+ body systems, yet the older system was as easy as it got where skill was concerned. Honk, point, watch Netflix. See what I'm getting at?

The suggestion to make it more skill based and more like the SRV, which I've also touched upon, would simply make it too time consuming for what you get out of it. This would result in a lot of complaints, ironically, too.

This is a game. There's enough ranting on the grind to Elite already. Be realistic on the compromise. The FSS is a positive versus the old DSS and a step forward at least when combined with the probes, since the probes aren't free and fitted like the FSS. They require a slot, so explorers still have that explore feel to their gear and get to do Supercruising - since some here remark on that being their thing with the old method.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

So some complaint has been made on the FSS being too quick and too easy, yet tedious with 50+ body systems, yet the older system was as easy as it got where skill was concerned. Honk, point, watch Netflix. See what I'm getting at?

The suggestion to make it more skill based and more like the SRV, which I've also touched upon, would simply make it too time consuming for what you get out of it. This would result in a lot of complaints, ironically, too.

This is a game. There's enough ranting on the grind to Elite already. Be realistic on the compromise. The FSS is a positive versus the old DSS and a step forward at least when combined with the probes, since the probes aren't free and fitted like the FSS. They require a slot, so explorers still have that explore feel to their gear and get to do Supercruising - since some here remark on that being their thing with the old method.

You're missing the point of why some of us enjoyed the old ADS/DSS system.

The tool wasn't the gameplay. The gameplay was what we did AFTER using the tool to see whether the system contained the things we were looking for - whether that was cherrypicking ELWs, OCD scanning of the whole system, finding canyons on icy moons or pretty things take pictures of AspXs in front of. We made our own gameplay from the sandbox.

The FSS and the probe systems make the TOOLS the gameplay, which is fine for those who want it to be that way, but for the rest of us at best it hides the gameplay behind a minigame and at worst it removes the gameplay entirely.

Also, enough with the Netflix crap - ADS explorers didn't use Netflix because we were too busy playing the game. Netflix was how people who couldn't create their own gameplay filled the gaps.

 

[Commdor]

You're missing the point of why some of us enjoyed the old ADS/DSS system.

The tool wasn't the gameplay. The gameplay was what we did AFTER using the tool to see whether the system contained the things we were looking for - whether that was cherrypicking ELWs, OCD scanning of the whole system, finding canyons on icy moons or pretty things take pictures of AspXs in front of. We made our own gameplay from the sandbox.

The FSS and the probe systems make the TOOLS the gameplay, which is fine for those who want it to be that way, but for the rest of us at best it hides the gameplay behind a minigame and at worst it removes the gameplay entirely.

Also, enough with the Netflix crap - ADS explorers didn't use Netflix because we were too busy playing the game. Netflix was how people who couldn't create their own gameplay filled the gaps.

What's stopping you from doing all that stuff with the FSS in place? If there's an ELW, you still have to travel to it to map it with the DSS.

 

[avow555]

A pure oinker of an interface and clunky.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

What's stopping you from doing all that stuff with the FSS in place? If there's an ELW, you still have to travel to it to map it with the DSS.

"...at best it hides the gameplay behind a minigame and at worst it removes it entirely"

The FSS serves no purpose except to obfuscate the fact that there's a planet I want to fly to. It's the equivalent to having to play Tetris to load cargo for a trade run. Yes, I can do it, but it has no intrinsic value.

Similarly, the unfailable probing minigame when I get there serves no purpose beyond a 'first scanned' tag and more credits that I don't need.

 

[Commdor]

"...at best it hides the gameplay behind a minigame and at worst it removes it entirely"

The FSS serves no purpose except to obfuscate the fact that there's a planet I want to fly to. It's the equivalent to having to play Tetris to load cargo for a trade run. Yes, I can do it, but it has no intrinsic value.

Similarly, the unfailable probing minigame when I get there serves no purpose beyond a 'first scanned' tag and more credits that I don't need.

But what gameplay is being hidden or removed by the FSS? What's stopping you from flying to a planet you want to fly to?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

But what gameplay is being hidden or removed by the FSS? What's stopping you from flying to a planet you want to fly to?

Nothing is STOPPING me doing it. I just have to play a pointless minigame that tells me all about the planet from 500,000LS away. So the exploration part of the gameplay is replaced by the tool. Which kinda defeats the purpose of exploring for me.

People complain that the ADS gave too much information about the system.
And they were right.
So FDev in their wisdom replaced it with something that gives even MORE information about the system.

Here's an analogy.
If I wanted to see the inside of a McDonalds in Shanghai (I live in Miami, btw) the ADS was the equivalent of being given the address. I had to get on a plane and fly to Shanghai in order to do that.
With the FSS I'm using Google Maps to find the location (by scrolling wildly around Shanghai until the icon pops up) so I can click on it and be taken to the website to see pictures.

Now you're saying that's fine because I can still fly to Shanghai, go to McDonalds and now I get to order a cheeseburger. But a Shaghai cheeseburger is exactly the same as a Budapest cheeseburger and a Miami cheeseburger and so it's kinda pointless. FDev have recognized this which is why the Codex has Steam Achievements which you can earn by buying cheeseburgers in multiple different countries.

What (I believe) FDev should have done is make the tools provide less direct information and more hints/hotspots/breadcrumbs so we're actually exploring systems to find things, rather than just surveying them.

 

[Commdor]

Nothing is STOPPING me doing it. I just have to play a pointless minigame that tells me all about the planet from 500,000LS away. So the exploration part of the gameplay is replaced by the tool. Which kinda defeats the purpose of exploring for me.

People complain that the ADS gave too much information about the system.
And they were right.
So FDev in their wisdom replaced it with something that gives even MORE information about the system.

Here's an analogy.
If I wanted to see the inside of a McDonalds in Shanghai (I live in Miami, btw) the ADS was the equivalent of being given the address. I had to get on a plane and fly to Shanghai in order to do that.
With the FSS I'm using Google Maps to find the location (by scrolling wildly around Shanghai until the icon pops up) so I can click on it and be taken to the website to see pictures.

Now you're saying that's fine because I can still fly to Shanghai, go to McDonalds and now I get to order a cheeseburger. But a Shaghai cheeseburger is exactly the same as a Budapest cheeseburger and a Miami cheeseburger and so it's kinda pointless. FDev have recognized this which is why the Codex has Steam Achievements which you can earn by buying cheeseburgers in multiple different countries.

What (I believe) FDev should have done is make the tools provide less direct information and more hints/hotspots/breadcrumbs so we're actually exploring systems to find things, rather than just surveying them.

So then the dispute is that we simply have different preferred gameplay styles. I find your way of exploring boring, just as my way of exploring is probably not to your taste. There's 400 billion systems in this game and I don't want to spend anywhere near a full hour supercrusing across only one. Too many times, the old ADS showed me a planet that looked interesting, only for it to turn out to be something mundane after I wasted time traveling to it. The FSS neatly does away with all that frustration and tedium.

In short, it appears that what I like about the FSS is precisely what you don't like about it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

In short, it appears that what I like about the FSS is precisely what you don't like about it.

Yes, exactly this.
I get why people like the FSS - it suits the way they want to play - which is why I'm not asking for it to be removed, since there's no reason why the FSS couldn't coexist with some form of ADS-style functionality. I don't actually want the old ADS back - I just want something that gives me unidentified targetable bodies that I can fly to in order to explore them. Until that happens I'll just keep ED on the shelf.

 

[M00ka]

Yes, exactly this.
I get why people like the FSS - it suits the way they want to play - which is why I'm not asking for it to be removed, since there's no reason why the FSS couldn't coexist with some form of ADS-style functionality. I don't actually want the old ADS back - I just want something that gives me unidentified targetable bodies that I can fly to in order to explore them. Until that happens I'll just keep ED on the shelf.

What is stopping your from flying out to a planet after you scan them with the FSS? With the ADS you have a fair indication of what the planet was from the instant system map, now with the FSS you actually know what the system is. The only difference between the two (ADS and FSS) is you know what you are heading for. If your 'thing' is flying is SC to get up close and personal to a planet, there is nothing stopping you - well except you stopping yourself

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

What is stopping your from flying out to a planet after you scan them with the FSS? With the ADS you have a fair indication of what the planet was from the instant system map, now with the FSS you actually know what the system is. The only difference between the two (ADS and FSS) is you know what you are heading for. If your 'thing' is flying is SC to get up close and personal to a planet, there is nothing stopping you - well except you stopping yourself

Scroll up 3 posts.

 

[M00ka]

Scroll up 3 posts.

I did, so it is your personal choice not to use the new system not that it is a bad mechanic, you just decided you don't like it for whatever reason. So why all the vitriol on the forums since it is your personal choice? Heck I don't like the Engineers or PowerPlay (amongst other aspects of the game) but I don't continually post about it as I realise others like those aspects and I also realise the game isn't being designed for me and me alone.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I did, so it is your personal choice not to use the new system not that it is a bad mechanic, you just decided you don't like it for whatever reason. So why all the vitriol on the forums since it is your personal choice? Heck I don't like the Engineers or PowerPlay (amongst other aspects of the game) but I don't continually post about it as I realise others like those aspects and I also realise the game isn't being designed for me and me alone.

Engineers and Powerplay didn't take anything away from players.
If you don't like them then you can ignore them and it isn't detrimental to your gameplay.
In case you hadn't noticed, FDev removed functionality that players had spent thousands of hours using and enjoying, and replaced it with something horrible.

Nobody is vitriolic over the new functionality, but they're very unhappy about losing the old.

It's the same argument as when FDev proposed making Powerplay Open-only - people were justifiably upset at the idea that they'd have something that they'd been using for years taken away and FDev rightly shelved the idea.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Anyone trying to argue against this point is just trolling.

Simple as that.

Not that many explore with 128 T fuel tanks, I use less than 32 T in my Anaconda for comparison.

 

[WR3ND]

Not that many explore with 128 T fuel tanks, I use less than 32 T in my Anaconda for comparison.

Small agile ships, stock tanks, large scoops fuel scooping on the flyby. Not parking in supercruise. ← How I roll.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Small agile ships, stock tanks, large scoops fuel scooping on the flyby. Not parking in supercruise. ← How I roll.

Yep, that's my routine.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

What is stopping your from flying out to a planet after you scan them with the FSS? With the ADS you have a fair indication of what the planet was from the instant system map, now with the FSS you actually know what the system is. The only difference between the two (ADS and FSS) is you know what you are heading for…

Exploration - the search for the unknown, visiting undiscovered and unknown places.
As you pointed out quite nicely, the new FSS tells you what an object exactly is - this makes it known and traveling to that places not exploring anymore.

From all the threads about the new FSS I got the impression that the "haters" considered finding out what the planets/moons are to be exploration while the "lovers" considered seeing the system map to be exploration.
This difference in definition of what exploration is results in the heated debates - in my opinion.

Small agile ships, stock tanks, large scoops fuel scooping on the flyby. Not parking in supercruise. ← How I roll.

I like to fly circles around the star while scooping. Makes fuel scooping feel like something difficult or exciting (would look much cooler in a movie than just parking in a save distance from a star).
Since I like my DBX that agile and large scoop are not part of the description (I would like a more agile DBX with a c5 scoop - or better a Core Dynamics fast, agile and big scooped small combat explorer)

 

[Enderby]

It’s not better it’s worse.

 

[ArgusP]

I'm a surveyor/completionist kind of explorer. I find myself traveling a lot less under the new mechanics. I don't enjoy Elite as much.

 

[Blackcompany]

It’s not better it’s worse.

I unfortunately agree. I tried the FSS precisely one time, in one system. I found it fiddly, tedious and utterly unfun. Fortunately, I no longer explore in Elite, or even leave the bubble, so, I never have to use it. And I will not do so.

If it were up to me, however, I would restore the Honk revealing the location of all bodies. Then require the DSS + probe firing to fully explore each. This would involve actually flying your ship to a body and conducting a survey of the body, in person so to speak. In other words, actual exploration.

But the FSS? I'm just going to blissfully forget that it exists.