Will ED's PG be able to do the same?

A very interesting article about No Man's Land Procedural Generation on Kotaku:

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2014/06/18/seemingly-impossible-game-possible


I hope ED can do the same stuff. It is quite awesome.

"He [Duncan] builds his prototype and you can click 'view variants' and it will generate, like, hundreds of variants. And you click it again, and it will generate more and more and more.

and

"You're building a blueprint," Murray said. "And that's true of everything in the game. So say one of our artists will build something and that will take say a week. But what they get from that is every possible variant of that. So if you build a cat, you also get a lion and a tiger and a panther and things that you've never seen—kind of mutations beyond that."
 
I think NMS will be a good game in its own right. I notice they were deliberately remaining obtuse about where they drew inspiration from. Obviously nobody can ignore Elite did this first back in the early 90s. However I still feel for all the beauty NMS is trying to showcase in their game, it still leaves me feeling like its quite small in comparison to ED.

They are dealing with lower polygon counts (cartoonish), and seemingly is on the arcadey side of the fence. Its not going for real world stellar data or super high res models like SC. In fact it is cutting corners to deliver a PS4 exclusive. And don't get me wrong it will be impressive if coming out before ED releases planetary landings. But it will just be a cut down version of what ultimately Elite Dangerous is promising to deliver on.

Another point I wanted to make is, NMS is not trying to directly compete with Elite Dangerous, if anything its nearest competition is Limit Theory. As both these games are going for procedurally generated ships and stations where players will see even the slightest variation of a ships produced just for the sake of showing its possible. Something Elite Dangerous is definitely not doing. For me its leaves the game open to the kind of monotony ED should absolutely avoid. I could be wrong, but NMS seems much smaller scale and much less ambitious in scope. Anyone feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.
 
For me this is not about the alleged competition between both games. I am only interested, and very much so, in the information about procedural generation in the article.

The idea of being able to generate virtually endless variations of a particular lifeform from just one template. Or being able to create species of which no individual is exactly the same. It is mindbogglingly awesome I think.

Imagine landing on a planet and not only discovering a rich biotope with many new species, but also observing that every individual in those species differs from its fellows.
It is... just... wow.

If Elite D can do that...

I just wish David Braben would tell us more about their PG.
 
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The idea of being able to generate virtually endless variations of a particular lifeform from just one template. Or being able to create species of which no individual is exactly the same. It is mindbogglingly awesome I think.

I agree, although both NMS and ELITE:DANGEROUS have to be careful not to get into Pete Molyneux style over-promising. Fractals are infinitely detailed and varied but after a bit it all just looks like more fractals. We're already seeing this with the planets being generated -- they've got different land masses, colours, clouds etc... but it doesn't take long before you're seeing algorithms rather than real places, spotting the patterns rather than the detail, if you know what I mean.

That's not to say it won't be excellent and wonderful! They're brainier than me, these Frontier guys. :smilie:
 
The idea of being able to generate virtually endless variations of a particular lifeform from just one template. Or being able to create species of which no individual is exactly the same. It is mindbogglingly awesome I think.

Well from my understanding, that is procedural generation. It all depends on how much detail they want to put into it. To set rule sets within rule sets within rule sets to define (and at the same time free up) the minutest detail.

That is the beauty of procedural generation and honestly, more game developers should be using it. Particularly RPGs with their non-interactive NPCs. Imagine being able to meet characters in a game that never look exactly the same, even to the point that the PG ruleset is setup in a way that each character has a distinct look from each other and don't just have "a slightly bigger nose" or "slightly farther apart eyes" from a previous character you met. Even to the details that when you meet a NPC family that a subset of rules defines what a "family" is and the common characteristics that carries between them. Completely being generated by the PG ruleset.

Imagine landing on a planet and not only discovering a rich biotope with many new species, but also observing that every individual in those species differs from its fellows.

Indeed it is very cool, and I hope that FD have a treat for us with planetary landings. Keeping in mind that I don't imagine a large number of planets will have atmospheres conducive to what we recognise as "life" if we are to keep it scientifically accurate (who knows science changes every day, I believe it is 8.8 Billion potentially inhabitable planets like earth last time I checked?). But still, on the planets that do... we could really have something. I've been following NMS for a while (what little info existed when HG first presented their project) and they definitely don't seem like dummies when it comes to how they are implementing their PG.

It is... just... wow.

If Elite D can do that...

I just wish David Braben would tell us more about their PG.

I agree, it would be fun to know in more detail how they implement their PG and how in the future expansions they will take advantage of it. David Braben did a TED talk on how procedural generation is art, if done right. I definitely think that this is forefront in the mind of Frontier devs while they have crafted this game. We have to remember that this is David's baby that he has been giving metaphorical birth to for a while. He has plans that don't need to be upset or toned down by some publisher saying it is "not marketable" (which is what they did when David and Ian first presented Elite and were going and thus far I am pleased with the slow but steady gradual progression of things.


As a side comment regarding NMS, there seems to be a lot of misinformation regarding the premise and goals of the game. Not just here in the forum, but from articles from generic and more well recognised online gaming sites, etc.. This is probably Hello Games' fault for staying mostly quiet about what they were doing (maybe they didn't know fully themselves yet). If you only read the few interviews made with Hello Games regarding NMS, the premise becomes much clearer as to what they are trying to accomplish. I think most people at E3 got a gooey eyed at it because they have not seen something like this with such graphical fidelity to the minutest detail. As I said above, David's TED talk regarding procedural generation as art (when done right) definitely points to what Hello Games appear to be achieving with their vision for No Man's Sky. It is hard not to root for them even if people somehow see them as a "threat" or a "cheap copy" to E: D. Which I personally don't, as the style and focus is different. Besides, there aren't enough types of (quality) Sci-Fi space flight sim inadequate genre defining games for me anyway.

I say bring 'em on and about time.
 
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