Will FD do anything about the grindy and no personallity feel of ED

[Jezzah]

Couldn't agree more.

Gaming has changed a lot over the years, and people expect progression routes, rewards for time spent and some sort of achievements.
Issue is that ED follows the classic old school way of gaming.

Here's the galaxy, here's a spaceship, go have some fun.

Unfortunately the newer generation of gamers don't understand how to have fun in that environment, because there's nothing in the game pointing them towards the fun.

"Oh Hey! You can go to this <insert system name> now! Since you're uber awesome and the saviour of our galaxy, you should head there and do some jobs for people, then come back here when you're done for a hug and some biscuits"

That's what the newer generation of gamers expect from games these days, and it's a shame... really. As if people need hand holding through every game they play.
If there's no hand holding, then it needs to be a corridor game, with no freedom and you can only go from A - B, with only slight divergence.

If people don't understand how to enjoy themselves in this type of game, then I feel sorry for them.

But they shouldn't be demanding that ED head down that path, when it's pretty clear already, that the game is trying to keep to it's roots and stay open for everyone.

I can't think of a more politely derogatory way of describing gamers than the above. I'm not a new generation gamer nor I suspect am I alone or anywhere near it by saying that but I DO demand more and it's got nothing at all to do with hand holding or being made to feel like a special little cupcake.

Games have moved on and this game should also especially if it is to secure its future and do the important thing of selling copies funding further development.

In one way I'm really sad that people are seemingly genuine when they say they are perfectly happy with it as it is and in another way I'm glad for those people because they'll have something to play that doesn't overly tax them to much.

 

[Nagual]

I can't think of a more politely derogatory way of describing gamers than the above. I'm not a new generation gamer nor I suspect am I alone or anywhere near it by saying that but I DO demand more and it's got nothing at all to do with hand holding or being made to feel like a special little cupcake.

Games have moved on and this game should also especially if it is to secure its future and do the important thing of selling copies funding further development.

In one way I'm really sad that people are seemingly genuine when they say they are perfectly happy with it as it is and in another way I'm glad for those people because they'll have something to play that doesn't overly tax them to much.

Small things would help so much. Traffic Control using your name not just Pilot all the time. If you're scanned by a Major Faction which you have a Military Rank, they should also use that and your name when sending you messages. The higher the rank, the more polite the message. Founders World, actually being nice to Elite Pilots nevermind Founders. Hell being at least friendly would have been something.. lol There should be local chatter in and around stations, not unlike when you searching USS for clues on your Mission target. Just random gossip from the system/sector etc. Commanders perhaps being mentioned, both for being heroes and villains, as well as NPC stuff. Just to make us feel as if the NPCs are part of it all, and that they notice us.

 

[SlugwormX]

Couldn't agree more.

Gaming has changed a lot over the years, and people expect progression routes, rewards for time spent and some sort of achievements.
Issue is that ED follows the classic old school way of gaming.

Here's the galaxy, here's a spaceship, go have some fun.

Unfortunately the newer generation of gamers don't understand how to have fun in that environment, because there's nothing in the game pointing them towards the fun.

"Oh Hey! You can go to this <insert system name> now! Since you're uber awesome and the saviour of our galaxy, you should head there and do some jobs for people, then come back here when you're done for a hug and some biscuits"

That's what the newer generation of gamers expect from games these days, and it's a shame... really. As if people need hand holding through every game they play.
If there's no hand holding, then it needs to be a corridor game, with no freedom and you can only go from A - B, with only slight divergence.

If people don't understand how to enjoy themselves in this type of game, then I feel sorry for them.

But they shouldn't be demanding that ED head down that path, when it's pretty clear already, that the game is trying to keep to it's roots and stay open for everyone.

And I feel sorry for you. I understand that some people like repetitive actions that do not really have any outcome worth mentioning, but some of us actually like to see progression and results. I mean, after you've killed that 1000th generic NPC does that make you feel like you have achieved something? That is where I lost the game, or more to the point the game lost me - there is no ramification - ANYWHERE! You cannot blockade a station, you cannot blockade a planet, the Fed's won't send progressively larger response fleets to deal with threats in their territory, you cannot stake a claim in a pocket of rock littered with gold (because, you know, it's random, which is directly at odds with what DB said in one of his interviews pre-release - you scan, find a pocket of gold, mine but some player sees you dump the gold on the market and decides to trail you to the source - BAH non existent!) You cannot access a real bounty system where all ships are tracked for bounty, impact on local and global structure, current area of operations etc as all NPC's are random - they do not really exist (yes - I am talking about within the game structure).

So again I feel sorry for those that cannot see beyond the small walls of their ship - they are missing out on something grander. But they are happy I suppose, and because they are happy they see no reason why we shouldn't be happy either. What they dont see is that if the universe was improved to include many expanded features they would still be happy, but so would we!

Food for thought - Steam release data - April to May - lowest user count 7246 (April 8th) Now May 14th 4493. So in a month the user count has dropped to 62%. What do you suppose will be the long term ramification of not engaging you customers with an interactive, reactive environment? Not engaged, not invested, not interested. And the mid term result - FD may not have the funds to support the game in the long term.

But this has all been said before and will be said again, and those happy with the game will stay and those not will go (at least until real content comes along).

Cherio!

p.s. Before the inevitable 'if you don't like why bother posting" - see above - we want the game to be engaging and interesting but some folks are happy exploring that 455th Ice planet...

 

[Elooder]

And I feel sorry for you. I understand that some people like repetitive actions that do not really have any outcome worth mentioning, but some of us actually like to see progression and results. I mean, after you've killed that 1000th generic NPC does that make you feel like you have achieved something? That is where I lost the game, or more to the point the game lost me - there is no ramification - ANYWHERE! You cannot blockade a station, you cannot blockade a planet, the Fed's won't send progressively larger response fleets to deal with threats in their territory, you cannot stake a claim in a pocket of rock littered with gold (because, you know, it's random, which is directly at odds with what DB said in one of his interviews pre-release - you scan, find a pocket of gold, mine but some player sees you dump the gold on the market and decides to trail you to the source - BAH non existent!) You cannot access a real bounty system where all ships are tracked for bounty, impact on local and global structure, current area of operations etc as all NPC's are random - they do not really exist (yes - I am talking about within the game structure).

So again I feel sorry for those that cannot see beyond the small walls of their ship - they are missing out on something grander. But they are happy I suppose, and because they are happy they see no reason why we shouldn't be happy either. What they dont see is that if the universe was improved to include many expanded features they would still be happy, but so would we!

Food for thought - Steam release data - April to May - lowest user count 7246 (April 8th) Now May 14th 4493. So in a month the user count has dropped to 62%. What do you suppose will be the long term ramification of not engaging you customers with an interactive, reactive environment? Not engaged, not invested, not interested. And the mid term result - FD may not have the funds to support the game in the long term.

But this has all been said before and will be said again, and those happy with the game will stay and those not will go (at least until real content comes along).

Cherio!

p.s. Before the inevitable 'if you don't like why bother posting" - see above - we want the game to be engaging and interesting but some folks are happy exploring that 455th Ice planet...

Wish I could rep you a few hundred times. I really do. Spot on.

 

[ste]

I would love to see the hours logged of players who claim this game is boring and repetitive compared to the games they 'enjoy'. I would bet it would smash thoughs without the need to exaggerate.

Every game ever made if you break it down is grindy and repetitive, only some it takes you many many hours more to realise.



And maybe its just me but I'm sure its common knowledge that frontier are adding to the experience. Maybe I'm just better at google.

 

[IronLIch]

Elite: Dangerous is a game in which the player is responsible for creating their own identity to fill in the lack of direction and linear story.

"Make the game's reality your own reality. Get invested and act in a way to test your personal morals in a new and fantastic setting."

Try not to look at it as a grind or a race to fully kitted 'Conda. Revel in the intricacies of each ship and each role. Only time, luck, and practice produces a true Galactic Master.

 

[ste]

Elite: Dangerous is a game in which the player is responsible for creating their own identity to fill in the lack of direction and linear story.

"Make the game's reality your own reality. Get invested and act in a way to test your personal morals in a new and fantastic setting."

You dont even need to do that. People grind for 1000 hours going back and forth over and over then complain they grind, then load up BF4 and play the same map, and camp the same spot with the same gun, pressing the same buttons, then buy bf5 cos its the same but the background looks better.

 

[IronLIch]

You dont even need to do that. People grind for 1000 hours going back and forth over and over then complain they grind, then load up BF4 and play the same map, and camp the same spot with the same gun, pressing the same buttons, then buy bf5 cos its the same but the background looks better.

Dammit, I won't give up on people zombified by competitive, grindy venom! There is a cure: Awareness, mindfulness, empathy, compassion, communication, acceptance... positivity... ooooohhhhhm.

Those with bright passion in their lives, draw the lost from the dark.

 

[Ancipital]

Don't grind. And play with people who have personalities!

Depending on who you run into- that could be more of a disadvantage than anything

 

[Surly_Badger]

A universe that bores you in a Sidewinder is going to bore you in an Anaconda.

I never could get people who complain about games being a "grind". As Yoda would say "MMM Play, or do not. Grind do not."

Used to know this guy who played World of Warcraft obssessively and complained that it was a grind. So I finally asked him "once you grind and grind and get that magic cloak, you'll be one of the cool kids for, what, a week, and then they'll come up with another expansion and you can grind more?" I mean, what's the point? If you think the game is a grind there are about 100 other top-notch games you can play, then check back in a year and see if you're still a grind. Uh, excuse me, if ED is still grindy to you.

 

[Syhko]

If u think ED is grindy and repetitive, go play Destiny. That is the epitome of repetitiveness and grind. The game that cost 500 mil to make ended up as a horrible grindfest and i cant believe what they made after so many promises before release. I remember i did one dungeon 7 times in one day thanks to rng Gods. Ed is going in great direction and powerplay and future updates and xpacs will make it a breathing game.

 

[Valethar]

<hint>
ED is a Sim, not an RPG.
</hint>

 

[Zeeman]

I mean, the game is a mecha of heaven without any personallity what so ever!

No organic lifeforms visualized in the game.

Total waste to introduce a 3d pilot in 1.3 if there is no way to customize its appearance.

Will FD do anything to make the big Three grinds less grindy?

Will there ever be some kind of social aspect to the game as in places to visit e.g bars, shops to hang out in?

It's Mecca.

And just sit back and relax, the improvements have been coming regularly, and the game keeps getting better. Just go with it and enjoy what you have, and look forward to what is coming.

Z...

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Whenever I read threads like this I swear I must be playing a completely different game to everyone else.
Personally I'm finding more than enough to do, to the point of almost being overwhelmed at times.
After a long stint exploring on my own (Brilliantly awesome BTW) a good friend decided to purchase the game, we have formed a wing and are now finding the possibilities of FUN limitless.
He's become addicted to the game just like myself.

...and not once have I found the need to "Grind".

Different strokes for different folks I guess, The mirror analogy sums it up perfectly.

 

[Skvala]

It's Mecca.

Ah! Of course! For some reason I never clicked onto that. I just thought 'a mecha' was some kind of slang the modern Internet kidz were using that I didn't understand on account of being an oldie.

I personally do think there needs to be more content, but what worries me is the thought that FD will feel pushed into putting barriers around and through the sandbox - that sooner or later this complaining about 'grind' from people who aren't happy with open-ended, do-what-you-like games, will force the rest of us down more or less linear paths. I don't imagine it will come to that: EVE manages to be relatively free-form, with no set path through - but that's largely down to complex player interactions and the ridiculously weighty skill training system.

(This is from someone who has no interest in player interactions, because to me, Elite is and is supposed to be single-player - but I can see what I think makes things work in that respect in other games.)

I'm all for things to do - but I don't want things I have to do in a specific order. Missions, yes, as long as they're procedurally generated according to my faction relations and ratings - but I do NOT want 'level progression', I don't want pre-set chains of mission after mission that have to be done in a set order. I don't want a set backstory or ultimate goal to achieve (one of the things that initially put me off the X series). That, for me, is 'grind'.

Give me planets to land on, stations to explore, shady trade deals to strike - the more options I have the better. But I don't need my story told to me: I have an imagination to take care of that.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Re lack of humans: ED to me is like 2000AD (the comic).

2000AD and its creators adhere to the tenet of lean storytelling, and that the majority of the action happens between the frames of the artwork, and not actually in the pictures themselves. J Wagner (the co-creator of Judge Dredd) famously would send scripts that were described as 'exciting telegrams' that were terse yet did the job. Unlike bloated American comics, UK writers condensed the story down and in turn this would engage the reader more as you have to form more of the narrative in your head.

In ED, if I read a GalNet post, I don't need to see faces because my brain just fills in the rest, just like reading a newspaper or book. When I dock, again I don't explicitly need to see humans everywhere as my brain just accepts that they are there, an invisible given.

People will throw this back at me as another case of White Knight hand wavium, but I just don't need faces everywhere. It would be OK with me, but not a necessity.

Re Grind: all games are grinds, it just depends on how well its hidden. Right now, ED feels grindy to some as the primary path is ship improvement. When I play, if I get fed up of trading runs I go off and BH, or just sight-see for a few hours, or check out a CG, or do a mission. 1.3 will improve things no end, and should be an update worth waiting for.

 

[W4rSkuLL]

I think some things like scripted events and the feeling of the "grind" can get repetitive for must players. I didnt get this feeling in NAV points as these are very random and seldom repetitive. Though you make more credits in a RES. So you naturally go for the "higher profit" source to get that next ship. But players are intelligent creatures and will notice the script. Like why aint there more mixture of ships in a RES and why are there no Asp pirates or FDL bounty hunters around in the RES. Why does some instances only spawn small ship while others spawn bigger ships. This gets to you. And you get that repetitive feeling. All games do at a certain point. But I feel that or at least hope that this can be dealt with. And make RES bounty hunting much more varied and less scripted. Like in a NAV point. Mix up the ships, make it more random and bump up the difficulty a little. People will loose the repetitive feeling and say "wow" this feels more natural and dangerous. Every RES is a unique RES. I know its first things first, and I am looking forward for Powerplay and the changes in ver 1.3 And I feel Frontier will make RES less scripted in the future. The possibilities are endless. Lets be patient but aware. And discuss and reflect over content that can be added or improved. With a respect for Frontier and the job they are doing, because E.D is a big game and so much can be added or tweaked. It takes time

 

[bassman]

I wonder what the benefit is in keeping anything under wraps at all, to be honest. I've never really understood why the best approach wouldn't be to lay out the plan, month by month, year by year, so everyone can see what's in the queue.

Being a kickstarter project I expected a higher level of openness than were currently getting.

 

[bassman]

In ED, if I read a GalNet post, I don't need to see faces because my brain just fills in the rest, just like reading a newspaper or book. When I dock, again I don't explicitly need to see humans everywhere as my brain just accepts that they are there, an invisible given.

I agree that these things arnt necessary, EDs lack of "feeling alive" runs much deeper e.g. the fact that the background sim doesnt have persistent NPC ships hooked into it that the player can see and interact with.