Will NPCS follow the same rules as us in 3.0 :D??

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

So as many of my fellow CMDRs are aware of npcs don't have the same rules as us. IE chaff not affecting turret SCBs not equipped yet able to bank and regen to max with no heat sinks bring power plant or thrusters to zero and they can still move(without reboot time and also can reboot 100% of the time). No fsd cool down for interdicted ships. Unlimited Chaff\Banks. Having Rockets and no launcher. Silent Running and TLB no affect. Experimental affects dont affect them and the perfect knowledge of how to fly a ship thats cooking Flying into asteroids at full speed and exploding before your done KWSing them -.-... Did i mention the God aim rail guns eagles.. you know those turds... As much as its not really hard....or adds any difficulty other then "wow thats the 10th set of SCB's how has his flesh not melted off....." and "Where on earth is that chaff coming from!" and my favorite. "DUDE YOU HAVE NO LIFE SUPPORT WHY ARE YOU STILL ALIVE"

I admit its kinda fun to see the wild they will do like ATR plowing tru rocks in the beta! ( i sure hope thats still in the game that was g great to watch) NPCs are a big part of the game. And it would be nice if they follow the same rules as us. if not...can we make a robot npcs picture then...and make it like the reason why is because they are not Humans but really androids that would be kinda cool

Have you guys had the same issues.
What brings this up is a fresh cmdr was ranting to me about how she was having so much issues with npcs breaking the rules... I just leaned in and said "its because they are robots....robots...dont have rules" So yeah make that happen..... >.>

Fly Dangerously.....and stay away from those rail gun eagles.....Little buggers...and your skill...GRRRRR
Plexus Ironrot
Admirer of fine Lakon Vessels and soon to be Thargoid snooper....FOR THE SNOOPS

 

[Quantis Trap]

NPCs say really stupid lines "There's the ship with all that tasty cargo!" not to mention not knowing the difference between the intercom and the radio. I wouldn't want to trade places.

 

[Darty]

NPCs in this game are so poorly implemented. What it comes down to is that they simply are (a lot of time really bad) game mechanics wrapped in the shell of another ship. They don't behave as if they had to follow the same rules as the player, nor do they behave as if they had the same motivations as the player. It's why no matter how many bounty hunters you kill, next jump you will always have another one claiming to have been looking everywhere for you despite being a member of a local faction and trying to kill you to redeem that 400 credit bounty, a bounty so low that they will get a higher one placed on them after killing you to claim it.

It's a real shame because this game could be so much more immersing if the npcs that populated the the galaxy behaved as if they were true independent characters and not just game mechanics that were there to annoy I mean provide an experience to the player. Upon entering a system I should find it populated with npcs already going about their business, with no npcs being placed there simply because some game loop saw that I had cargo so it spawned a pirate npc of the same ship class and combat rating as me and told it to attack me. If I get interdicted by a pirate, it should only be because when I jumped in there happened to be a pirate npc looking for targets in SC who decided I was a good target.

 

[piercehead]

They undoubtedly break rules (e.g. when it comes to jump range when interdicting) but I'm fairly sure most of the ones in the OP are just made up. Not having SCBs and acting like they have them? Tosh. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

 

[KellyR]

NPCs say really stupid lines "There's the ship with all that tasty cargo!" not to mention not knowing the difference between the intercom and the radio. I wouldn't want to trade places.

Had one tell me that when I was carrying bio waste one time. I'm thinking, "Scat pirates! Now that's just disgusting!!!"

 

[Bortas]

They undoubtedly break rules (e.g. when it comes to jump range when interdicting) but I'm fairly sure most of the ones in the OP are just made up. Not having SCBs and acting like they have them? Tosh. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Yep, some of his concerns are reasonable but a lot of the stuff is clearly made up, which kind of invalidates his entire post. SCBs for example never show up in the scan, even when scanning other players... probably because they would clutter the scan result, same reason why hull and module reinforcements are not shown.

Also NPCs firing missiles with no missile launchers or chaff without chaff launchers? Nope... never seen something like that. I have also never had an NPC jump out before their FSD cooldown could finish, and I have interdicted many to farm merits.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

Yep, some of his concerns are reasonable but a lot of the stuff is clearly made up, which kind of invalidates his entire post. SCBs for example never show up in the scan, even when scanning other players... probably because they would clutter the scan result, same reason why hull and module reinforcements are not shown.

Also NPCs firing missiles with no missile launchers or chaff without chaff launchers? Nope... never seen something like that. I have also never had an NPC jump out before their FSD cooldown could finish, and I have interdicted many to farm merits.

Or maybe I am just paying more attention to these things and check subsystems. But this is Elite.. so if you dont see its its not real O3O hahaha Everyone opinions wrong but yours? HAHAH thats why this community makes me laugh! Also a understanding of how ships are built and what ships can do what also give you a theoretical idea of how man SCBS the ship will have and not have. because Hummm pirates should have cargo bay...yoinker so hum...where would they go on say a eagle....well more then one.. But. As i have learned with the community that people jump to conclusions and feel like they should belittle. Hince why the pvp guys mine that salt...ahhh...salt mining....a joyous pastime after sending some poor sod to his/her insurance agent... I try not to post here much because I don't fit the clique or mold for this game or elite (tho almost 20 years of elite....played almost every game....Ehh...i am a nobody haha) oh well. I can tell you what i have experienced and have other people tell me.. I am willing to listen to new players and hey maybe that did happen idk.. I know everything i listed has happened to me. but once again I am not surprised by the response. Pay attention sometime before 3.0 drops you might go hummmmm...wow i never noticed that before.. thanks weird forum guy that likes lakon ships a unhealthy amount!


Edit: You know....come to think about it...Do the pirates actually scoop up your cargo....in all my time playing this game and being the pirate... i never gave a npc pirate any booty....I always assumed they would but....if they don't means they don't have a rack and the theoretically could have a SCB *rubs chin* hummmmm......going to have to test this out >.>....Here little fishy I got a t6 chock full of bio waste...i urm mean gold.....<.< thats it come to papa.....RAILS TO DA FACE... EAT MY SUPERHEATED SLUG OF METAL TRAVELING SO FAST ITS A HIT SCAN WEAPON (with a delay) MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH...not even a ring down...oh my....well poopy BOOST LITTLE T6 BOOOOOOOST

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Probably not and probably never. NPCs tend to have to cheat to be competitive. At least without putting massive amounts of work into the AI.

 

[Falcon_D]

Oh, and they can also engage their FSDs while still having weapons deployed.
Their gimballed weapons don’t seem much affected by chaff either.
A Conda with 1 chaff launcher, launching more than 10 chaffs (I counted), 2 days ago in a Haz Res.
Been farming a Haz Res and keep coming across these things. Weird.
Sometimes I wish I was playing the same game these other guys are.

 

[DRaven4135]

LMAO !!!!!

 

[Manticore]

NPCs say really stupid lines "There's the ship with all that tasty cargo!" not to mention not knowing the difference between the intercom and the radio. I wouldn't want to trade places.

Yes; i do find some of the NPC chatter a bit facile myself.......

Probably not and probably never. NPCs tend to have to cheat to be competitive. At least without putting massive amounts of work into the AI.

........... as for the OP: I can't say because I haven't read or heard but I hope we don't get an NPC "revolt" like some time during 2.x when a netcode bug (I think) allowed NPC's to give themselves super-powered weapons that were one shot kill jobs.

Us humans didn't stand a chance.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

Probably not and probably never. NPCs tend to have to cheat to be competitive. At least without putting massive amounts of work into the AI.

Yeah they are not really much of a Challenge unless your in a DBS Haz rez with PA's because...there is something very wrong with you........O-O I Just had to listen to her rant for like a hour...my ears are still ringing so it got me thinking.....thats a very bad thing for me to do...i do things.. try things...take sidewinders against thargoids...you know normal stuff..space stuff!

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

Yes; i do find some of the NPC chatter a bit facile myself.......

........... as for the OP: I can't say because I haven't read or heard but I hope we don't get an NPC "revolt" like some time during 2.x when a netcode bug (I think) allowed NPC's to give themselves super-powered weapons that were one shot kill jobs.

Us humans didn't stand a chance.

OH YEAH The god weapons! I actually put down elite at that point (and my condition worsen at that time) I remember fighting a sidewinder with what i SWORE was a Rapid Fire PA's I Got recked so bad in my cobra ;-; But i was garbage then...wait what am I saying I am still garbage!! SMASH EVERY BUTTON!

 

[CMDR Corlas]

NPC's have limited SCB's and chaff, same as us. I've run them out of it before. If you see otherwise, report it as a bug, because every NPC I've run into has limited chaff and banks.

I've also seen them damage their own modules from banking without heatsinks.

My scramble spectrum weapons affect them just fine (awesome when their thrusters go out and they slam into an asteroid or the surface of a planet). Dispersal field works too. And super penetrator. Corrosive. What isn't working? Bug report it if you see something.

NPCs do have some odd behaviours, mostly only caused by their non-persistance, so it's not so much a "behavior" or a "cheat" as it is a limitation of the game engine. By and large though, they play by the same rules we do.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

NPC's have limited SCB's and chaff, same as us. I've run them out of it before. If you see otherwise, report it as a bug, because every NPC I've run into has limited chaff and banks.

I've also seen them damage their own modules from banking without heatsinks.

My scramble spectrum weapons affect them just fine (awesome when their thrusters go out and they slam into an asteroid or the surface of a planet). Dispersal field works too. And super penetrator. Corrosive. What isn't working? Bug report it if you see something.

NPCs do have some odd behaviours, mostly only caused by their non-persistance, so it's not so much a "behavior" or a "cheat" as it is a limitation of the game engine. By and large though, they play by the same rules we do.

I may have to make comp video showing what I have experienced. Could my connection be a issue? I know my internet connection is not the best at first with my Ubiquity radio like 400 ping easy with the Mamosa (how ever you spell it) I get decent at 50D 10U with 100ish ping...and I have noticed that some of the more strange NPC things slowed down. And now I don't spend as much time fighting that Conda or FDL or anyship really like I used to.. The FAS or T10 makes rather quick work of them.(so ready for the chieftain so i can park my core dynamics ships and fly my beloved lakon) Tho PVP was never a issue. but most pvp was 1v1 and me being the guns because Pirate. And yes I picked a different image of the infinity logo so we would not get mixed up I was going to do the Durandal one but the Infinity one always stuck with me.. and that title music. man...good times.

 

[777Driver]

They undoubtedly break rules (e.g. when it comes to jump range when interdicting) but I'm fairly sure most of the ones in the OP are just made up. Not having SCBs and acting like they have them? Tosh. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

OP is just repeating most of the nonsense spouted by cmdrs that struggle with NPC's. Topics that have been covered numerous times and had input from SJA

What I'd like to see is NPC's have more persistence across instances, and more importantly, at least put them on the same level as a semi competent cmdr, we have a ridiculous advantage over NPC's, funnily enough that doesn't get talked about much.

 

[kofeyh]

They undoubtedly break rules (e.g. when it comes to jump range when interdicting) but I'm fairly sure most of the ones in the OP are just made up. Not having SCBs and acting like they have them? Tosh. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

They don't break any rules for jump range; AI are not persistent. They don't 'go' anywhere. Every time 'barry' interdicts you, the underlying rules are essentially triggering the same event. So the 'barry' in SC, isn't the same 'barry' that appears in normal space, and isn't the same 'barry' that has appeared in a subsequent system. Each is simply the same scenario being built and triggered.

For a ship to 'chase' you, it actually requires persistence. They aren't. Frontier are ostensibly just imitating it by ensuring ships appear consistent each encounter. And even so; unless you are in a very sparse area, star wise, you don't need much jump range for economy jumping. You'd be surprised how far you can go on ~12 LY.

Frontier is more interested in keeping an encounter contextually relevant (same ship, same ship name, same pilot name, same module fit), than necessarily solving 'pedants immersion' (how can an eagle jump that fast?).

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

OP is just repeating most of the nonsense spouted by cmdrs that struggle with NPC's. Topics that have been covered numerous times and had input from SJA.

Oh contrary good sir. These very topics have been commented and confirmed (minus the SCB thing thats still thinking that was just was a strange bug) by people who have played the game for more then a few weeks (talking years mate) But who am I to the all mighty ELITE I am nothing but the trash hauler in your way. FORGIVE ME FOR MY SINS! I SHALL SCUTTLE AWAY AND HIDE IN MY ROCK OF SHAME! SHAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Having a bit of fun run of the underling Elitism in Elite. Hehe don't mind me or mind me and become the salty boi the PVP community mines so dank so salty)

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They don't break any rules for jump range; AI are not persistent. They don't 'go' anywhere. Every time 'barry' interdicts you, the underlying rules are essentially triggering the same event. So the 'barry' in SC, isn't the same 'barry' that appears in normal space, and isn't the same 'barry' that has appeared in a subsequent system. Each is simply the same scenario being built and triggered.

For a ship to 'chase' you, it actually requires persistence. They aren't. Frontier are ostensibly just imitating it by ensuring ships appear consistent each encounter. And even so; unless you are in a very sparse area, star wise, you don't need much jump range for economy jumping. You'd be surprised how far you can go on ~12 LY.

Frontier is more interested in keeping an encounter contextually relevant (same ship, same ship name, same pilot name, same module fit), than necessarily solving 'pedants immersion' (how can an eagle jump that fast?).

There is some persistence in some situations, but its not great.

When you use a FSWS to follow a target it will have the same details, cargo, configuration, but if you had damaged it, the damage will be gone.

 

[Craith]

The only in-combat-cheating I know of from NPCs is unlimited multicannon ammo (and this I only know because MoM told us, the ammo is enough for any single encounter anyhow), and being able to jump further than their ship should be able to (like following your 50+ lys AspX in a FDL). Flying often an Eagle, but also in a corvette, I do know for sure:

* they run out of shield cells (but some pack 2, mostly a smaller one and a bigger one, you can see the different recharge rates). Their systems also take damage from overheating, but remember that they are not as optimised as player ships, so will run cooler as a standard and their subsystems will have generally a higher durability because they have less mods and also sport B-rated stuff - like some players of course

* chaff is limited (but some have more than 1 chaff launcher)

* they miss with rails quite often if you don't facetank them and fly an agile ship (but against a corvette or a FDL, it is really hard to miss with rails). They are good at not firing when they are not on target - just release the trigger before the shot is wasted - but I also have shots going past me. Just trigger discipline on their end.

* never encountered one that shot missiles or rockets that didn't have the launcher (but they usually only use it when your shields are down)

* silent running definitely has an effect on them, but it is not invisibility. I always hit silent running, heat sink + boost when my shields drop in the eagle, and they do switch targets all the time (if there is another target, of course. If not they look around, but until they find me I am well out of range. If you are in front of them in an Anaconda or Corvette, cooling a bit or dropping from sensors won't make them forget you. Also, if you are shooting them, they see you and can target you, even when silent running - same as with players)

* I shot out hundreds of thrusters from NPCs - it stops them from applying thrust, like with players. It does not stop their momentum. You can have the same if you fly FA-off or deactivate it fast when your thrusters fail. It is also hillarious having a Type-9 impact on a high-G planet (although it takes only 20-40% off their hull, depending on height). Fun fact, if they are upside down, they never get back up in 3G.

* 0,4% hull or power plant shows as 0% unfortunately, but it still works. more visible with lower powered weapons, it might take a shot or two extra to bring it to 0.

* chaff does work against them - but it is not invulnerability ... I often hit targets that are chaffing, by being close and them being big being the usual reason. As before, hard to hit a large ship at point blank range. (of course, fixed work even better against chaff).

* they don't fly into asteroids on purpose ... they just look over their shoulder while boosting ... definitely never happened to me *cough*

* FSD cooldown they had the few times i interdicted them, only once it could have been close, but that was a low speed interdiction ... and below a certain speed you don't have cooldown either (like when you successfully submit).

(OT: rails are no problem, personally I hate small laser turrets the most, since it is hard to shake their tracking in an eagle and I only have 1 utility slot so no space for chaff. hitscan + acceptable tracking + low shields = ouch. Getting hit by a huge plasma really hurts ... definitely never flew into one by mistake ... never ...)