Windows Mixed reality

[mp4x]

Well, MS love having their own platform/thing. Just like Oculus, they'll come around when they accept the industry isn't big enough to cut out large parts of the VR user-base with anything exclusive and not playing nice with others. No one MR/AR product is good enough to sway enough of the potential customers away from the two other existing VR products [and their library.]

I'll be honest and say I'll likely get one of the new MR headsets, later when they get cheaper. The Asus looks to be the one to go with... but It's more expensive than the Rift, at the moment.

 

[Pville_Piper]

The Asus headset is a bit nicer but the Dell and Lenovo seem to have a good set that doesn't slip and is comfortable. I don't think the Asus is worth the premium.

 

[Pville_Piper]

An article on the current crop of Windows Mixed Reality headsets coming out with pricing and the differences. The Asus is pretty interesting with the single screen. Anybody care to speculate if this is good or bad?

https://www.windowscentral.com/what-makes-each-windows-mixed-reality-headset-special

 

[heretowatch]

I'm wondering if Asus's single screen will allow faster rendering with less of a performance hit. I also really like the 3.5mm jack so I can use my nice headphones. I really miss the full ED audio on the built-in Oculus headphones.

The hype train is real for these devices. I really hope they'll be a meaningful step forward for VR, rather than a last-ditch effort to get some Christmas money for a dying technology.

 

[Pville_Piper]

I don't think it impacts the rendering from what I've read. Yeah, my level of hype is going down though... The minimum specification for 90hz play is a GTX 965m, but comparing that to the Rift or Vive is like comparing apples to oranges because you don't know what that means... I mean the GTX 965m has about half the rendering hourse power of the GTX 970, the minimum spec for the Rift... But what will it run? The GTX 965m is equivalent to a GTX 750ti and that can run ED, so does that mean the GTX 970 will run better on ED than the Rift? I've no idea.

With the price point where is and the price of a Rift, I'm not really seeing where the value is. I like the simplified cord and setup, definitely like the flip up visor, but the specs really ain't any better and could be considered slightly worse. For me, it will come down to whether I need to upgrade my GPU to take advantage of the headset. I can afford to upgrade one or the other but not both.

 

[CylonSurfer]

The minimum specification for 90hz play is a GTX 965m, but comparing that to the Rift or Vive is like comparing apples to oranges because you don't know what that means... I mean the GTX 965m has about half the rendering hourse power of the GTX 970, the minimum spec for the Rift... But what will it run? The GTX 965m is equivalent to a GTX 750ti and that can run ED, so does that mean the GTX 970 will run better on ED than the Rift? I've no idea.

Hopefully this will clear it up a little for you.

Windows Mixed Reality (WMR) is an application built into Windows 10 build 1703, it allows WMR compatible devices (hololens and the devices you are interested in) to run Windows 10 (kind of) in a VR or AR enviroment. This allows you to run standard windows apps from a virtual screen within those devices or run specifically created WMR apps in VR or AR (depending on which they were built for). It also allows you to pin shortcuts to the walls of the WMR environment, or anywhere in space when used in AR mode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CXdQWFMcRk

As you can see, it is very basic (graphically speaking). I spent some time with it on a Hololens - it was pretty rubbish in my opinion but may be better when used in VR as imo the Hololens was pretty poor also.

The minimum spec to run the base 'Windows Mixed Reality' app on these devices @ 90Hz is a GTX 965m - Some WMR apps will have higher minimum specs than the base spec to run WMR itself - just like how some apps on the MS Store have higher minimum specs than Windows 10 itself.

The minimum spec to actually run SteamVR (required to run Elite in VR on these devices) will remain the same as the published SteamVR minimum specs. Oculus do not plan on supporting these devices via their runtime (at least for the time being). You should be able to test your rig using the SteamVR performance app to see if it's a VR ready machine.

A GTX 965m may very well run WMR but a GTX 965m will always struggle to run even the most basic SteamVR game (if it could at all - which I doubt). A GTX 970 should run both the Rift and SteamVR, however a GTX970 would struggle to maintain 90FPS in Elite on a VR device.

Due to ASW and it being exlcusive to Oculus, the Rift will always run a game such as Elite smoother than any other VR HMD via SteamVR (HTC Vive included). This may change if / when Valves ASR catch up.

The video link here should give you an idea of what ASW does and how it compares to SteamVRs ASR. In short ASW is what you want if you have a weaker GPU and / or CPU.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/6z7b6a/asw_atw_oculus_vs_reprojection_valve/

 

[Pville_Piper]

Pretty much what I figured. I don't get the office apps thing, like I want to sit around all day working with a headset on.

I wonder how many people (non-techie types) will look at the minimum settings requirement and buy one thinking "Cool, I can now do VR in my game" and find that it doesn't work, trash the headsets online and send them back for a refund. Based on my research I can't see these going anywhere. The office thing is just not compelling enough as it is now, the failure to have SteamVR on board at launch is a huge mistake and, even if they have it by Christmas, will fail to generate any enthusiasm or build momentum early on. Oculus has smartly stolen their thunder by dropping it's price and having the big sale.

I hope I'm wrong but time will tell.

I also think the Mixed Reality thing is a messed up marking strategy. I under stand why they call it that and the need to differentiate themselves from the Vive and Rift, but really, all it is a confusing name for something that exists. I don't know how many posts I've seen where people just don't get the name and are confused by it. This kind of thing muddies the water and often hinders sales.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Pretty much what I figured. I don't get the office apps thing, like I want to sit around all day working with a headset on.

I wonder how many people (non-techie types) will look at the minimum settings requirement and buy one thinking "Cool, I can now do VR in my game" and find that it doesn't work, trash the headsets online and send them back for a refund. Based on my research I can't see these going anywhere. The office thing is just not compelling enough as it is now, the failure to have SteamVR on board at launch is a huge mistake and, even if they have it by Christmas, will fail to generate any enthusiasm or build momentum early on. Oculus has smartly stolen their thunder by dropping it's price and having the big sale.

I hope I'm wrong but time will tell.

I also think the Mixed Reality thing is a messed up marking strategy. I under stand why they call it that and the need to differentiate themselves from the Vive and Rift, but really, all it is a confusing name for something that exists. I don't know how many posts I've seen where people just don't get the name and are confused by it. This kind of thing muddies the water and often hinders sales.

It's called mixed reality as it's not limited to VR devices - it works with both WMR compatible AR & VR devices (as well as holo devices). I believe some of the HMDs under the WMR umerbella are (or will be) both VR and AR capable, others are one or the other - hence their name. Yes it is a little confusing.

I agree about the office apps in VR, I don't see the appeal either and the screen res is way too low for them to be of any real use. WMR will in most likelyness have its own games at some point, what games and how basic they are is unknown. You may find existing VR titles get a release on the MS Store for WMR, of course all of them will have their own min specs etc.

I guess as with anything, if you want a device for a specific usage case, buy a device designed to give you that.

 

[Malaeus]

I'll just throw this in here, because why not eh?
I'm also interested in the MR headsets, and possibly not alone in thinking the following; I just want something simple to setup, reasonably priced and, more importantly, how about something close to a system standard that doesn't require jumping through hoops/hacks to access the VR experiences I want? Wouldn't it be nice to not have to prioritise systems based on which has most of the exclusives you're after, where developers could commit to a platform with one set of specs to develop their SDK's around?
Why Microsoft haven't clarified what Mixed Reality is with a simple sentence along the lines of "It's a platform for both Virtual and Augmented Reality, primarily VR in this first wave of headsets but a standard for both VR and AR development.", pretty sure that sums it up from what I've been reading up on.
Until at least Steam VR support is added it's a difficult sell outside of possibly the enterprise sector (business, not starship[smile]), and when that does come into play at least I'd have Rez Infinite. Having some of the code baked into Windows 10 directly may bring some performance benefits but who knows? And it's only the recent Rift and Vive price discounting that's meant the MR headsets aren't clearly at a price advantage, so the future is going to be...interesting.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I'll just throw this in here, because why not eh?
I'm also interested in the MR headsets, and possibly not alone in thinking the following; I just want something simple to setup, reasonably priced and, more importantly, how about something close to a system standard that doesn't require jumping through hoops/hacks to access the VR experiences I want? Wouldn't it be nice to not have to prioritise systems based on which has most of the exclusives you're after, where developers could commit to a platform with one set of specs to develop their SDK's around?
Why Microsoft haven't clarified what Mixed Reality is with a simple sentence along the lines of "It's a platform for both Virtual and Augmented Reality, primarily VR in this first wave of headsets but a standard for both VR and AR development.", pretty sure that sums it up from what I've been reading up on.
Until at least Steam VR support is added it's a difficult sell outside of possibly the enterprise sector (business, not starship[smile]), and when that does come into play at least I'd have Rez Infinite. Having some of the code baked into Windows 10 directly may bring some performance benefits but who knows? And it's only the recent Rift and Vive price discounting that's meant the MR headsets aren't clearly at a price advantage, so the future is going to be...interesting.

I don't think there are really any hoops or hacks required to set up a Vive or Rift. They are both really easy to configure on your PC and playing games on them is no more complicated than running a standard game from any of the game e-store fronts.

Game exclusivity is something born from consoles, it is a shame to see it in PC based VR but I guess that's the nature of the beast with the big VR players having to fund titles themselves in order to bring content to the devices and then get customers interested in the tech. That said SteamVR is pretty close to what you want, I've not found a VR game I can't play on my Rift yet. There is also OpenXR but we'll have to see where that goes I guess.

 

[Malaeus]

I don't think there are really any hoops or hacks required to set up a Vive or Rift. They are both really easy to configure on your PC and playing games on them is no more complicated than running a standard game from any of the game e-store fronts.

Game exclusivity is something born from consoles, it is a shame to see it in PC based VR but I guess that's the nature of the beast with the big VR players having to fund titles themselves in order to bring content to the devices and then get customers interested in the tech. That said SteamVR is pretty close to what you want, I've not found a VR game I can't play on my Rift yet. There is also OpenXR but we'll have to see where that goes I guess.

My apologies for a lack of specificity - I know the rift and Vive require no hacks to get them up and running, my comment was really about the challenge of getting Vive apps to run on Rift and vice versa. As you say the exclusivity that was borne of consoles is now in the PC hardware space and to generate sales of their hardware any manufacturer wants to get one over on the competition to forward themselves, the drawback being the VR landscape on one hardware platform (PC) becomes fractious. In the console world you buy a console and any hardware is platform-specific, unfortunately this is the area where the PC's flexibility can become an Achilles' Heel.
If Microsoft were to state the MR headsets would also be compatible with the upcoming Xbox X, setting a standard HMD available on both platforms, wouldn't that be a heck of a thing?
Ah well, let's see what they give us that isn't low-res apps in a clifftop house first eh?

 

[digitalblade]

This thread had a good question. Don't recommend Rift or VIVE here the point is will MS Mixed reality work. So far Valve have promised support for those in their store but will the game devs need to rework the games that is the question. And if so will ED do it, they probably would they love VR. Sure Rift work but it's getting old and it's future seems very dim. Since this Mixed Reality is so so more comfortable then HTC VIVE the only question is will it work with this game and what others.

Rift loverboys stand back and relax no one is taking a at Rift, this are different products we will see how they will do pretty soon. So far still no actual support from Steam.

Still waiting on those OSVR Motion controllers that will probably never happen.

MS did a good thing, its tries to create a USB in a world where USB don't exists for VR. Remember what apple did? Open Standards are a good thing I hope this products have more luck then the rest.

 

[Captain N]

From what I heard the functionality is already in SteamVR beta and anything that supports Vive on Steam works with Windows MR. Those who have tried it are saying it's an ok experience even with games that don't specifically support MR. Not worse than playing Oculus games through Revive it sounds like. Some control schemes may be uncomfortable because of differences in the controllers. (Reddit thread)

 

[KellyR]

What I'd like to know is, do you have to have SteamVR to run Elite Dangerous in VR Mode in Mixed Reality. What would happen if you just clicked on the Launcher and then Play from within the Cliff House environment without having SteamVR? Would it put you in full VR Mode, or just on a flat panel in the environment like you would play normally?

I would prefer not to have to use another program as I already have 3 others running at the same time: Voice Attack, ED Market Connector and a Clock application I wrote to translate the time into Local.

 

[Malaeus]

Yup, you need SteamVR running but it really isn't a big resource hit (aside from "it's running in VR rather than flat"). My typical configuration is Voice Attack, SteamVR and ED, all runs pretty well.

 

[KellyR]

Yup, you need SteamVR running but it really isn't a big resource hit (aside from "it's running in VR rather than flat"). My typical configuration is Voice Attack, SteamVR and ED, all runs pretty well.

Now that I think of it, it doesn't make sense for it to work without some kind of buffer, seeing as how the video stream is split between two destination points, left and right eye.

Still waiting for my Lenovo Explorer. Supposed to be delivered yesterday, but with snow on the ground, I wasn't expecting it. Not wrecking the mail carrier's vehicle is just a bit more important than some piece of kit for a video game.

 

[KellyR]

Well, I received my Lenovo Explorer. The item was defective. I'm in the cliff house less than 10 minutes and the video goes dark. Moving my head around restored it temporarily. I figured maybe I need to reboot. Yeah, that brought the video back. For a few seconds and then dark again with moving my head around temporarily restoring it for a bit until it went dark and stayed that way no matter what I did. I've been a tech support representative for Dell portable computers and a loss or corruption of video due to moving the lid was always a hardware fault. Went to Lenovo support, a woman named Sasha responded to chat and after hearing the issue declared it a software issue with no troubleshooting at all. So back it goes. I just got a bad one. I guess I was due for one as I've never had a defective unit shipped out to me before.

 

[KellyR]

What I would like to know is why would you need an external program (SteamVr)? I mean, once you set your graphics to HMD Speakers (or HMD Headset), isn't the video streamed to the HDMI port with left and right channels? The headset is getting the two channels through the HDMI so why wouldn't it display it?

 

[KellyR]

I ordered an Acer to replace the Lenovo that failed almost from the get-go. Arrived today. I go to set it up and it's just great. No problems. I knew the Lenovo was a bad one. So I called up Elite Dangerous from my desktop preview and it's like playing on the desktop. Yeah, I know. Didn't even have the HMD Speakers/headphone option, just anylagraph and side by side. So I exit and go download steamVR. I also remember the Windows Mixed Reality portal for SteamVR so I told it to use that. I then called up Elite dangerous directly from the desktop and put the headset on. Nothing. So I go to the options and choose HMD Headphones. I click apply and video immediately came through to the headset. Didn't even have to restart the game.

All I can say is WoW!!! That's like being in a real spaceship. I stood up and turned around and there was all that detail of the bridge of my Python. Even a door to the rear areas of the ship although I don't have it set up for room scale so I can't really walk around.

Still don't think I have the headset quite centered though. And the FOV is pretty crappy. Looking directly at text is fine; nice and sharp. But text off to your left and right is blurry. This makes it kind of difficult on the commodity market screen as you've got to move your head left and right to read the text. Yeah, the thing is that big. It fills the screen. Almost the entire 2880 pixels wide. But once I get it centered properly, even though that problem will remain, I can see it being a superior experience in combat.

One other nitpick, to look at your status displays requires extreme head motion to the left or right. 45 to 50 degrees won't do it. You need to be at 85 or 90 degrees for the screens to come up. Other than that, it was truly great.

 

[Han_Zen]

I ordered an Acer to replace the Lenovo that failed almost from the get-go. Arrived today. I go to set it up and it's just great. No problems. I knew the Lenovo was a bad one. So I called up Elite Dangerous from my desktop preview and it's like playing on the desktop. Yeah, I know. Didn't even have the HMD Speakers/headphone option, just anylagraph and side by side. So I exit and go download steamVR. I also remember the Windows Mixed Reality portal for SteamVR so I told it to use that. I then called up Elite dangerous directly from the desktop and put the headset on. Nothing. So I go to the options and choose HMD Headphones. I click apply and video immediately came through to the headset. Didn't even have to restart the game.

All I can say is WoW!!! That's like being in a real spaceship. I stood up and turned around and there was all that detail of the bridge of my Python. Even a door to the rear areas of the ship although I don't have it set up for room scale so I can't really walk around.

Still don't think I have the headset quite centered though. And the FOV is pretty crappy. Looking directly at text is fine; nice and sharp. But text off to your left and right is blurry. This makes it kind of difficult on the commodity market screen as you've got to move your head left and right to read the text. Yeah, the thing is that big. It fills the screen. Almost the entire 2880 pixels wide. But once I get it centered properly, even though that problem will remain, I can see it being a superior experience in combat.

One other nitpick, to look at your status displays requires extreme head motion to the left or right. 45 to 50 degrees won't do it. You need to be at 85 or 90 degrees for the screens to come up. Other than that, it was truly great.

You only installed steamVR and set up the WMR portal for it? No need to get a steam key for ED?