That would be a very weird place for them to stop. Midway through the financial year. Makes zero sense.
You're dreaming.
Winter 2023 DLC Speculation
- Thread starter Leaf Productions
- Start date
You haven't noticed? "My favourite animal can fit into any theme if you squint!"
I actually agree that Frontier outright calling a pack "Mountains" or "Highlands" isn't the most likely scenario. That said, I think the "logic" behind the packs is pretty sound for the most part. So maybe it'll be called something else... But a cooler-climate DLC focused on animals that primarily live in temperate-to-cold climates in mountainy-type areas isn't unreasonable. Regardless of the name. I don't think it's as surefire a thing as people are thinking, though, TBH.
Example: The Oceania Pack! It's ostensibly what people were hoping for out of an Islands pack, mostly. It just has a different name. And, as folks have pointed out, the animals are mostly from a temperate biome... We were pretty close with 1/2 of the habitat animals but had the theme completely wrong (in labeling, anyway). And a lot of that hypothesizing was based on the meta wishlist. It's not the be all, end all but they've been working in at least one of the top 5 animals in most packs for a while now.
The number of options/routes that Frontier might take with this is super interesting now because it's all fair game! I'll be really interested in seeing how the discussion and temperature shifts after the DLC and free update drops on Tuesday (e.g., they like to slip "surprise" new items or fixes into those) as well as in about two months when we get the anniversary update (e.g., if we get a notable highlands animal there I'd say the odds of that pack drop significantly).
Exciting, fun times!
Example: The Oceania Pack! It's ostensibly what people were hoping for out of an Islands pack, mostly. It just has a different name. And, as folks have pointed out, the animals are mostly from a temperate biome... We were pretty close with 1/2 of the habitat animals but had the theme completely wrong (in labeling, anyway). And a lot of that hypothesizing was based on the meta wishlist. It's not the be all, end all but they've been working in at least one of the top 5 animals in most packs for a while now.
The number of options/routes that Frontier might take with this is super interesting now because it's all fair game! I'll be really interested in seeing how the discussion and temperature shifts after the DLC and free update drops on Tuesday (e.g., they like to slip "surprise" new items or fixes into those) as well as in about two months when we get the anniversary update (e.g., if we get a notable highlands animal there I'd say the odds of that pack drop significantly).
Exciting, fun times!
They roost on treetops and build nests ontop of trees, it's a stretch but i don't think it is impossible.
It would fit the 4th point, but I don't think it would be as profitable as other potential packs or appeal to a wider range of people, I see it more popular with the zoo and animal fan demographic (which is most of us on this forum), not as much the other two. When they have pack options with other cuter animals that have a higher likelihood to score well with all of their target demos that's going to be their preferred pack choice. I think Oceania pack is actually a really good example of what they are aiming for - two highly requested community animals, some popular cutesy Meme and pop culture prominent animals for kids and general gamers, and an interesting lesser known animal that is still cute and generates conversation. All of the animals are interesting and unique, and are each able to hold attraction and sway in terms of marketing the DLC to a larger group of people, so that frontier can make more sales. I think feedback for say, the arid pack was flat across the board from most of their customers - i would be interested in seeing the salefigures - and they are trying to swing away from it. I think a Highlands pack while it would go down well with us here, probably wouldn't generate as many sales with everyone else that Frontier targets sales from.
Breaking it down, here are my sales/marketing thoughts on animals I see most put in the Highlands pack on the forums (and I'm doing more than 8 because I'm looking animals I see alot). Personally I like all of these animals and would like to see them.
Wolverine - I do think this guy will show up in a pack, he's unique, cute, and important. Popular enough in pop culture, (Logan, common sports mascot, coat of arms, nature docos)
Baboon - I really want to see one but I am not sure we will, there was backlash over the proboscis and I think if Frontier is going to put another primate in a pack it's going to be a smaller new world monkey that looks less scary and more cute for kids and general players - people have been complaining about primates in other places, I think Frontier will be wary of them.
Golden snub nosed monkey - I think this is the more likely pick than the baboon, and it was in the golden compass which makes it sort of familiar to kids/young adults. It is more marketable in my opinion. But that also depends on if Frontier wants to add another monkey in the game. It's been what? Nearly 3 years?
Spectacled bear - I think it really just depends on what other packs Frontier has planned out. If we see a sa or others feasible pack I think the bear is more likely to be In one of those. 50/50 shot tbh.
Ethiopian wolf - I think unlikely, but still could be in there for a few reasons; zt2 nostalgia, cute canid, endangered - I think it's one of the oddballs.
Alpine marmot - I see a high probability for this animal showing up. Remember the Steve? Steven? Alan? Meme? Yeah.
Rocky mountain elk - people have been asking for an elk, and it's familiar with a large player base (usa - yes I know that people from other places play the game too but let's acknowledge that USA is a large portion of the games players) familiarity usually equals likeability statistically, and I think this is well know enough that it could make it into the pack.
Rock hyrax - I love them but I just don't think they are showing up, especially competing against the marmot and the marten. Why
Yellow throated tree marten - I do think this one has a chance of being in the game - cute, personable, and beautiful colouring. However - I think an arboreal or forests pack is more likely to have this animal.
Takin, markhor, yak, musk ox, Barbary sheep - yeah I lumped these guys together. I think we have a chance to see two in a mountain pack - likely the takin (beautiful, interesting, big fluffy guy to appeal to lots of people) and the markhor - Highlands/mountains pack wouldn't make sense without a goat. personally would like to see them all, and I think it's feasible to see the musk ox in the game it would likely be in a different cold climate pack. There is so many direction Frontier could go.
Pallas cat - fairly high chance of seeing this one, meme animal, relatively well known, easy to keep costs down producing it by reusing the sandcat rig.
Tanuki - I really wish we would see it, and I think there is a low chance that it will make it especially when we consider the cultural significance it holds and it's pop culture presence (animal crossing, Mario, studio Ghibli, zootopia) However I think it is not out of the question that Frontier would make a "Asia" pack (SE asia has had attention, Asia is the only major region without an actual pack now isn't it?! We have arctic, Africa, South America, north America, southeast Asia, Australia/Oceania, Europe... Where is Asia ? Actually, we could see an animal pack of wolverine, tanuki, golden snub nosed monkey, pheasant, yak, Chinese giant salamander, and takin. It's the big place that's missing from the DLC line up, it's part of the reason I am not sold on Highlands when Asia is Right There with so many of the Highlands animals)
Snowshoe hare, mountain hare - This would be the very cute animal for kids and families and make us happy with a Lagomorph, finally. Could realistically see it's inclusion
Chinese giant salamander - odd ball, but complementary to the axolotl, fire salamander, terrapin, I don't think it's guaranteed but it's not unlikely either.
Golden pheasant, rhea - of these two, I think the pheasant is more likely. The rhea would make more sense in a sa pack from a marketing pov in my opinion as I think it is just more commonly associated with SA than Highlands.
Tdlr; Asia as a pack makes more sense than Highlands and we would see alot of the requested Highlands in such a pack.
It's not my favourite animal 
, and I don't particularly want it in game, would it be cool? Sure. Am I bothered? No. I just think it would be an oddball way for Frontier to add it and that doesn't seem too much out of their mo.
, and I don't particularly want it in game, would it be cool? Sure. Am I bothered? No. I just think it would be an oddball way for Frontier to add it and that doesn't seem too much out of their mo. Don't they have their new ip launching in November? Given that may - November is a decent gap in terms of launching new product, I could see them putting something like a finale pack in September to keep revenue coming in if pz is still profitable at that time. It gives a small boost in sales leading up to launch of the new IP to put into their quarterly and maybe annual financial and shareholder reports, keeps them relevant to the wider base of players by having a visible recent product, and keeps people talking about them to drive sales and profit in the lull period of the end of support for PZ and the launch for whatever is new.- especially if they have a megapack bundle sale or similar in say, October.
It's speculation of course.
I wasn't targeting you specifically - it's just a recurring thing around here. You should have seen the bizarre places the Tasmanian devil was showing up in over the last few years. It's even more noticeable now as we head towards the end of support.It's not my favourite animal
This new IP hasn't even been announced yet, so I'm sceptical of any supposed release schedule. November is usually when this things come out, though. In saying that, the last DLC for Coaster dropped in June 2019 so what do I know?
Yes but they spend the majority of the time on the ground. Putting a Secretary Bird in an arboreal pack would make no sense to me, there’s so many more options. Brazilian Porcupine, Any monkey, tree kangaroo, coati, etc.
I agree with this but keep in mind it’s a scenery pack. A lot of the audience for scenery packs is - well the scenery. With animal packs they already aren’t as popular as scenery packs and they give 3 more animal picks, allowing for more unique and distinct options. Take the Grasslands Animal Pack, had a wide variety of animals, a fair few of them weren’t well known (caracal, armadillo, striped hyena) yet it’s still a well performing pack (I think). If they combine a selection of animals from the wishlist and community, 1-2 meme animals, and a wildcard, then by following the layout of the grasslands pack, this would sell well I would think.
The backlash on the Proboscis Monkey was because it wasn’t a zoo animal, it’s not common in captivity. Baboons are. If they’re smart I would think they would choose a primate which is common in captivity to avoid what happened last time. They got this right with the Lar gibbon, and it was well accepted even though it wasn’t a monkey like everyone wanted. I doubt they would add a Golden Snub Nosed Monkey.
Honestly it feels like anyone will take anything as long as it’s from South America, so if we get the Spec. bear in a mountains pack then a Latin America pack in the spring I guarantee you no one will complain, cause everyone is dying for SA content. Plus the spec. Bear isn’t a really good representative for SA compared to others.
But the reason we haven’t got a pack dedicated to Asia is because we get so many species from Asia in other packs we don’t need a dedicated pack to it. Przewalski’s Horse, Siamang, Lar Gibbon, AWM, Wild Water Buffalo, etc.
It also just feels like a wasted opportunity to not do mountains. We’ve had wetlands, arid, tropical, grasslands, all this build up for them not to base a pack on one of the most important and unique biomes out there.
I don't know that November was confirmed but they did say they had a new Frontier-owned IP game coming in FY24 (i.e., sometime between June 2024 and May 2025). If I recall, the last PlanCo DLC (Ghostbusters) dropped in June 2019. About a month or so after they announced PZ that May. So... Six months would seem like a long time but it paid off nicely in that case.
So it's possible that's exactly what they do. But that was also four years ago, they've had a lot of success with two similar games having DLC simultaneously (PZ and JWE2) and maybe they've learned they can have two titles going at once (arguably, that's what helped them out in a major way financially this year). Further, in the financial presentation they noted that PZ accounted for a significant amount of revenue last year. So there's clearly a demand for it. And it makes money for them.
But the counter to that would be... If they have limited resources and some team members need to be pulled to a new game that could generate even more money and additional DLC? It would make sense to pull those from PZ and continue with a new game. And you need to pay these people and ensure that, not only is there a demand for it... But is the demand enough to justify the costs of continued development? Hard to say! But with a new game, you'd presumably get the big bump in revenue from base game plus whatever PDLC on that new game that comes down the line... And you'd still have the old game's content there (PlanCo, PZ, JWE2) that just continues selling in perpetuity. And if they stop development on Planet Zoo and port the game over to console? Experience has shown them that's an assured bump in revenue too.
The TL;DR version here is that what you're saying makes logical sense and it could work. But it's just as likely that there's other factors at play that we can't even conceive or be aware of that would prevent the game from continuing.
That's understandable, I notice a lot of wishlist animals in odd places. It's sad that people won't see all of their wanted animals in game officially, but personally I think we have had a really good run of support, if this year's December pack was our last, while upsetting I wouldn't be devastated or super surprised.
Yeah but let’s be honest, people’s wants will never end. People want one thing, it gets in, then they dedicate themselves for another thing, that thing gets in, and so on and so forth. The chain will never end, and I think frontier has done a pretty dang good job of covering what everyone wants.
Interesting seeing the breakdowns of what people think are important for an animal pack in terms of animal "types." And I'm intrigued that this concept of a "meme" pick has caught on because... I don't think it's really a thing? I mean, obviously it popped up in Oceania. But it's not like Frontier has made a habit of saying "Oh, this animal is popular on the Internet! BRB! Gotta add it to the game!"
But it might also just be that I'm out of touch. LOL. Are there other examples you were thinking of? And I'm asking in earnest, here!For me, the most successful combo for an animal pack is:
- 2 highly requested animals (both from top 15 in the meta; one should be top 5)
- 2 smaller, energetic and playful animals (at least in-game)
- 2 interesting or cute animals "nobody" asked for but people find aesthetically pleasing - or there's some aspect about their appearance or behavior that's interesting in-game and to talk about
- 1 wildcard
I've been thinking about the baboon a lot in the context of a highlands/mountain pack. Given that the rest of the options for such a pack mostly put forward images of cooler climates, and so on... Do we really think they'd put them in such a pack?
I know there's examples where they've put animals who live in different climates in the same pack (e.g., NA with the alligator; some packs have had temperate and tropical mixed together) but they were able to tie it together visually. And I feel like that could be a struggle with a baboon? If that makes sense? I'm probably overthinking this... LOL
No, which is exactly why I think they'll add the gelada. Most people don't know it's not actually a baboon and although it lives in a warmer climate, the environment surrounding it is aesthetically closer to the more traditional mountain environment than the bare, rocky habitat of the baboon.
I struggle to imagine where the Hamadryas baboon can appear going forward. Africa and Arid are done. Most of the potential picks for a Middle East Pack went into the Arid Pack. I feel like a specific primate pack is off the cards.
Yeah I meant Gelada, I keep referred to them as baboons cause they look so alike, my bad lol
That "safari" pack idea people have thrown out could work. That pack itself feels a little flawed simply because most of the big-ticket ungulates and "charismatic" animals have been picked off already. It feels more like a grab-bag of animals people want and it could kinda fit in. I'd be cool with a lot of the rosters I've seen people float out but I don't think it would pass Frontier's muster for that theme...
There's also a possibility that they go for a more generic, wild card type pack. Something similar to "conservation" or "twilight" where it revolves around a broad, high-level theme rather than a region or a biome. "Adaptations" comes to mind but I'm sure there's others. And you could literally work any animal into that. But for a pack like that, I'd be lying if I said there weren't at least a dozen animals I'd personally want over them (no offense to the babs lovers).
For me, the main thing I care about in animal packs is the variety. The animals are the star of animal packs, so if the animals aren’t amusing or interesting to use, there’s no scenery to back them up. Again, Grasslands Pack did this perfectly with one feline, two carnivores (a bit much for the “too many carnivores in the game” people but they’re different enough, ones a hyena the other is it’s own group), a bird, an ungulate, an armadillo, and a marsupial. The animals need to be diverse behaviourally and physically.Interesting seeing the breakdowns of what people think are important for an animal pack in terms of animal "types." And I'm intrigued that this concept of a "meme" pick has caught on because... I don't think it's really a thing? I mean, obviously it popped up in Oceania. But it's not like Frontier has made a habit of saying "Oh, this animal is popular on the Internet! BRB! Gotta add it to the game!"
For me, the most successful combo for an animal pack is:
Scale it down for scenery packs (down to 1 pick for each). Oh, and relatively cohesive theming in terms of biomes, regions, etc. Things will always be more appealing if folks can work with species together in-game especially if it’s a lacking region. For example, the prairie dogs suddenly reinvigorated bison building in-game for me. And the Grasslands pack got me excited about building for CA and SA again. And honestly, looking at this, you can see how this worked against Arid... Yes, people wanted the camel and the rhino. But we've had species that are quite similar in-game for a while. Kinda killed the excitement.
- 2 highly requested animals (both from top 15 in the meta; one should be top 5)
- 2 smaller, energetic and playful animals (at least in-game)
- 2 interesting or cute animals "nobody" asked for but people find aesthetically pleasing - or there's some aspect about their appearance or behavior that's interesting in-game and to talk about
- 1 wildcard
Second, it would be nice if they were all from a wide spread across the world. Grasslands was easier to do for this since Grasslands is a broad topic, but I give it a pass for highlands. We would still get 1 global (found in 3 continents), 1 South America, 1 Africa, and 4 from Asia, which if you ask me isn’t that bad.
Then we move down to separating them by community favourites, meme animals, wildcards and so on.
Emu, Armadillo (imo), Sand Cat, Quokka. Any animal that feels like it’s there because it’s cute. Doesn’t mean it’s not requested, but it’s the cute factor of the pack- or at least it’s supposed to be (sand cat didn’t sell the cute well for me). It’s a recent trend and it might be nothing.And I'm intrigued that this concept of a "meme" pick has caught on because... I don't think it's really a thing? I mean, obviously it popped up in Oceania. But it's not like Frontier has made a habit of saying "Oh, this animal is popular on the Internet! BRB! Gotta add it to the game!"
If we divide my personal take on a Highlands Animal Pack:
Pallas Cat is the meme animal. It reuses a rig we just got (sand cat), a popular wild cat, and we know how much frontier loves cats.
Gelada and Markhor are the eye grabbers for the public. Markhor is distinct with the horns and baboon-like species are sure to grab attention, especially if they emphasize the “heart” and bright colours of the Gelada.
Golden Pheasant is the oddball. It’s not completely unheard of in a mountains pack but it’s not very common in peoples wishlists.
As for the rest (Wolverine, Takin, Spectacled Bear) they all would be community all stars, as all of them are wanted upon the community.
1 bird, 1 mustelid, 1 bear, 2 caprines, 1 primate, 1 cat. A perfect balance. This also covers a lot of the groups not covered last year in the grasslands pack.
For sure it's an out of place pick, there is definitely more suitable animals for such a pack, I'm not disagreeing with that.
Again a good point that I agree on - I really would like their sales data to analyse further, that kind of report would take me awhile to put together but I think when we look at actual sales figures vs animals vs reviews it would be very insightful.
Yeah, similar to the backlash on the brown throated sloth iirc. I would be happy to see a baboon in the game, but I just have trouble expecting it at this point, in my perspective people have been more vocal about new world monkeys, I think if push came to shove, the monkey would sell more over the baboon (sorry hamadryas, my loves). I put the golden snubbed there as it shows up frequently in Highlands wishlists
I'm not convinced the spec bear won't be an anniversary animal either
Wouldn't that be true of other regions as well? Plenty of North American, African, and Australian reps in other packs. Now that have a regional pack again I feel like I can't discount it, especially as it would be the only world wide region to not get a pack. While the same is true for mountain regions, there are also other biomes that wouldn't have a named pack too depending on how many packs we have left (savannah, forest, plains, desert, Tundra... That said ,"alpine" pack also isn't out of the realm of possibility)
I don't know if November is confirmed, it's just a guess based of discussion in my thread with the financial reports. Frontier hired an extra 115 employees in the last year if I recall right, going from 800 to 915. That is more than enough employees to work on several games and projects concurrently without having too much issue - depending on how many employees are in their departments.
You're absolutely right - there are certainly factors at play that we can't account for. Please take everything I say with a grain of salt - I enjoy speculative discussion like this but I also don't think my conclusions are the be and and end all and I am always receptive to feedback.
That said I am glad what I've said makes some sense.
Oh that is certainly true, I recognised that in myself, and that's when I decided to put my energy into other things. I have fun speculating and coming up with wishlists, but I don't hold to them either, this is strictly a fun exercise for me. I think Frontier has been amazing with it's responsiveness, and I will be always grateful for that.
I completely forgot the Gelada in my post
imo it's the most likely of the three in this discussion ( although there is six baboon species) to make it into a Highlands/mountain/alpine pack.speculating on the Hamadryas and where it could fit real quick
- children's zoo or educational pack, they are such a personable species and they are interactive with guests through barriers, I won't discount it in this space.
- Asia (no one shoot me) the Saudi pennisula and the sarawat mountains plus Yemen are all part of its home range and these are located in West Asia.
- savannah pack ( I hate this) - still a few species I could see Frontier pop into such a pack
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Gelada isn't a baboon, so it doesn't count as a baboon species.
This kind of highlights my point - it doesn't fit into any of these (except Asia on a technicality). Children's Zoos are populated by species that can be interacted with, or species that are small (part of the idea being that kids can visit a lot of animals in one area without having to walk for miles). Hamadryas baboons barely qualify for a 'savannah' pack, given that their habitat is closer to desert.
Unless there is some truly broad theme that it can be squeezed into or something very specific, it doesn't seem to go anywhere anymore. Frankly, "highlands" is kind of the last hope for it, and even then as has been discussed it's very unlikely.
That said, they could do a Middle East Pack - Hamadryas baboon, rock hyrax, Arabian oryx, golden jackal/Persian onager, and the long-awaited veiled chameleon for the exhibit.
