Modes With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility : discussion on ethics in Open

Slange Lands · May 22, 2018

The above quote has been attributed to Voltaire and Spiderman.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/23/great-power/

Obviously it is not incumbent to be "anything" in a video game. However, I really believe that if dedicated PvP peeps were as vociferous in their condemnation of seal clubbing as they are of clogging, the hypothetical transfer of PP to Open would not be so controversial.

This thread is not about PP or Open vs. Solo. It's about player responsibility or lack thereof, whether there are any advantages in being altruistic.

Although instancing issues may prevent players actually being able to do something about serial griefing, the forums do not have that limitation. Wouldn't it have been extremely politic for PvPers to more openly decry griefing? It would have done a lot for player unity.

Are there any Pvpers devoted to aiding the less fortunate and helping to right wrongs, i.e. justice type Rat? If so, I would love to hear your story and whether or not this style of gameplay is meaningful or even possible. Also, how could Fdev make player self regulation more viable and engaging?

o7

slange

orange_apecs · May 22, 2018

Slange Lands said:
The above quote has been attributed to Voltaire and Spiderman.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/23/great-power/

Obviously it is not incumbent to be "anything" in a video game. However, I really believe that if dedicated PvP peeps were as vociferous in their condemnation of seal clubbing as they are of clogging, the hypothetical transfer of PP to Open would not be so controversial.

This thread is not about PP or Open vs. Solo. It's about player responsibility or lack thereof, whether there are any advantages in being altruistic.

Although instancing issues may prevent players actually being able to do something about serial griefing, the forums do not have that limitation. Wouldn't it have been extremely politic for PvPers to more openly decry griefing? It would have done a lot for player unity.

Are there any Pvpers devoted to aiding the less fortunate and helping to right wrongs, i.e. justice type Rat? If so, I would love to hear your story and whether or not this style of gameplay is meaningful or even possible. Also, how could Fdev make player self regulation more viable and engaging?

o7

slange
I

Was going to ask a similar question as to whether there was a bounty hunter style player group for helping the little guys at CGs.

zeke312 · May 22, 2018

What would be great is if we could see players with the highest bounties, where they committed their last crime and when. We could then either go after them individually, or in a wing. Put the hunting aspect into bounty hunting.

Borko · May 22, 2018

zeke312 said:
What would be great is if we could see players with the highest bounties, where they committed their last crime and when. We could then either go after them individually, or in a wing. Put the hunting aspect into bounty hunting.

Each station has a Galnet listing that's either exactly or very close to what you're describing.

zeke312 · May 22, 2018

didn't know that... thanks!

Limoncello Lizard · May 22, 2018

zeke312 said:
What would be great is if we could see players with the highest bounties, where they committed their last crime and when. We could then either go after them individually, or in a wing. Put the hunting aspect into bounty hunting.

Each station has bounty lists for highest 5 bounties for powerplay, system, and an interstellar list (I'm not sure how the interstellar one works). The bounty list shows the CMDR name, the ship with ht bounty and the system they were last in.

Problem is that there is no distinction of crimes against NPCs or players, or any indication of what mode, platform or timezone was used by the CMDR. So finding them would be a matter of extreme luck. And finding them in a hot ship would be even less likely.

IndigoWyrd · May 22, 2018

Ethics, video games, businesses and government...

[video=youtube;6b0ftfKFEJg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b0ftfKFEJg[/video]

ZeroAi · May 22, 2018

Slange Lands said:
Are there any Pvpers devoted to aiding the less fortunate and helping to right wrongs?

To be sure, just as there are griefers there are anti-greifers, and I tip my hat to the anti-griefers for all their efforts and responses to this thread!

CMDR Cknarf · May 23, 2018

You'll find that blatant seal clubbing is frowned upon by most skilled PvP factions, even some of the 'bad' guys don't care for it.

Personally, I don't go out of my way to put a stop to it, or hunt down those that do. If I'm around Eravate, and there's something wanted, I'll shoot at it, but that's as far as it goes for me in terms of being the good guy.

What I do instead, sometimes, is drop by starter areas and rough the noobs up a little. Shoot out their drives, walk them through a reboot. Give them some pointers, help them build a better ship, and teach them the skills they need to survive in open play (without resorting to combat logging).

I host fights every week in small ships, too. I encourage new players(sometimes the ones I've shot at) to come by and get a feel for combat, and it's made clear that blowing up is totally okay, it happens to everyone. There is occasional frustration, but never any saltiness, as it's always a friendly environment. We're all there for the same reason, to get better, and have fun doing it.

Rookies are the future of our game, and need guidance. I try my best to ensure they receive it.

Slange Lands · May 23, 2018

IndigoWyrd said:
Ethics, video games, businesses and government...

Indeed. I am fighting the ocean again. Perhaps I am wasting my time and others time, again. But, I had to try.

What is unusual about Elite Dangerous is that I believe the player population is better educated and older than most MMO's. Perhaps those qualities mean nothing when it comes to altruism. However, even if only one person's day is brightened by the kindness of another, that is a triumph no matter how small. Whether or not a kindness occurs in virtual land or IRL, the feeling of gladness is very real to the recipient. That is enchanting.

Slange Lands · May 23, 2018

Cknarf said:
You'll find that blatant seal clubbing is frowned upon by most skilled PvP factions, even some of the 'bad' guys don't care for it.

Personally, I don't go out of my way to put a stop to it, or hunt down those that do. If I'm around Eravate, and there's something wanted, I'll shoot at it, but that's as far as it goes for me in terms of being the good guy.

What I do instead, sometimes, is drop by starter areas and rough the noobs up a little. Shoot out their drives, walk them through a reboot. Give them some pointers, help them build a better ship, and teach them the skills they need to survive in open play (without resorting to combat logging).

I host fights every week in small ships, too. I encourage new players(sometimes the ones I've shot at) to come by and get a feel for combat, and it's made clear that blowing up is totally okay, it happens to everyone. There is occasional frustration, but never any saltiness, as it's always a friendly environment. We're all there for the same reason, to get better, and have fun doing it.

Rookies are the future of our game, and need guidance. I try my best to ensure they receive it.

That is Totally Awesome. Teaching by "roughing up a bit" is wonderful and totally cool. You guys should advertise your machinations on the forum or even make a video of it. Solo players desperately need to know that most PvP Commanders are simply explosion addicted but really Good Eggs. Open really needs some effective PR. All I have read is blah blah blah combat logging or blah blah blah I lost my ship in Open or blah blah blah Open isn't really that bad. What really would populate Open is reading about the specific exploits of good hearted Commanders. Even, I , a hopeless misanthrope, would want to be in Open simply to be around people I admire. That would be a haven from RL.

It might actually make being blown up a privilege?

HA HA HA HA HA HA

CMDR Cknarf · May 23, 2018

I find interactions in game to be far less cancerous than on the forums, to be honest. I feel this place is 75% people who signed up to complain about an in game death, and have decided to stick around.

Also, new players are far more receptive to advice than people who have already given up entirely, and are stuck in their ways. The very same advice that is scoffed at here on the forums is taken seriously by rookies.

I may record my interactions with a new player next time, so they can be shared. How much do you want to bet that we see an anti-open post within the first page? Lol.

Slange Lands · May 23, 2018

Cknarf said:
I find interactions in game to be far less cancerous than on the forums, to be honest. I feel this place is 75% people who signed up to complain about an in game death, and have decided to stick around.

Also, new players are far more receptive to advice than people who have already given up entirely, and are stuck in their ways. The very same advice that is scoffed at here on the forums is taken seriously by rookies.

I may record my interactions with a new player next time, so they can be shared. How much do you want to bet that we see an anti-open post within the first page? Lol.

Of course there will MANY anti-open posts within the first page. Sadly, there are some peeps who are beyond reason; any effort would be a waste of time. But, I am sure there will be others applauding your efforts as well as me. It's the Commanders who have a little receptivity left that really need to know.

Your story has made me think twice about Open. I might take my fully grade 5 maxxed engineered FDL, Gunship and Battle Conda to the starter areas in Open. Hmmmmmm.......

Phisto Sobanii · May 23, 2018

Cknarf said:
I find interactions in game to be far less cancerous than on the forums, to be honest. I feel this place is 75% people who signed up to complain about an in game death, and have decided to stick around.

Also, new players are far more receptive to advice than people who have already given up entirely, and are stuck in their ways. The very same advice that is scoffed at here on the forums is taken seriously by rookies.

I may record my interactions with a new player next time, so they can be shared. How much do you want to bet that we see an anti-open post within the first page? Lol.

No bet.

You're one of the good ones, Cknarf. hannnnnnnnds

Goose4291 · May 23, 2018

Slange Lands said:
The above quote has been attributed to Voltaire and Spiderman.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/07/23/great-power/

Obviously it is not incumbent to be "anything" in a video game. However, I really believe that if dedicated PvP peeps were as vociferous in their condemnation of seal clubbing as they are of clogging, the hypothetical transfer of PP to Open would not be so controversial.

This thread is not about PP or Open vs. Solo. It's about player responsibility or lack thereof, whether there are any advantages in being altruistic.

Although instancing issues may prevent players actually being able to do something about serial griefing, the forums do not have that limitation. Wouldn't it have been extremely politic for PvPers to more openly decry griefing? It would have done a lot for player unity.

Are there any Pvpers devoted to aiding the less fortunate and helping to right wrongs, i.e. justice type Rat? If so, I would love to hear your story and whether or not this style of gameplay is meaningful or even possible. Also, how could Fdev make player self regulation more viable and engaging?

o7

slange

Cknarf said:
I find interactions in game to be far less cancerous than on the forums, to be honest. I feel this place is 75% people who signed up to complain about an in game death, and have decided to stick around.

Also, new players are far more receptive to advice than people who have already given up entirely, and are stuck in their ways. The very same advice that is scoffed at here on the forums is taken seriously by rookies.

I may record my interactions with a new player next time, so they can be shared. How much do you want to bet that we see an anti-open post within the first page? Lol.

Inb4 "THIS IS WHY I FLY IN MOBIUS"

Slange Lands · May 23, 2018

Goose4291 said:
Inb4 "THIS IS WHY I FLY IN MOBIUS"

Sorry, sir. I really do want to promote understanding in this game. If that is naive and dumb of me, so be it.

o7

slange

CMDR Cknarf · May 23, 2018

I'd like to make it clear that I am not a mode snob. For Powerplay and BGS activities against player factions, yes, you should be a sport and play in open.

However if you want to experience the game as peacefully as possible without player interaction or interference, then by all means, go for it. I will fully support someone's decision to play PG/Solo, instead of logging in open. They make use of the options that the game provides, and I respect That.

I use PG sometimes myself, whether it's playing with certain friends, or really pushing for the top 10 in a bounty hunting CG. Targets can be sparse in open, and I am easily distracted from my goal with PvP.

Bigmaec · May 28, 2018

Cknarf said:
I'd like to make it clear that I am not a mode snob. For Powerplay and BGS activities against player factions, yes, you should be a sport and play in open.

However if you want to experience the game as peacefully as possible without player interaction or interference, then by all means, go for it. I will fully support someone's decision to play PG/Solo, instead of logging in open. They make use of the options that the game provides, and I respect That.

I use PG sometimes myself, whether it's playing with certain friends, or really pushing for the top 10 in a bounty hunting CG. Targets can be sparse in open, and I am easily distracted from my goal with PvP.

This. 1000% this. [up]

Jockey79 · May 28, 2018

Slange Lands said:
Sorry, sir. I really do want to promote understanding in this game. If that is naive and dumb of me, so be it.

o7

slange

You're doing okay, ignore him trolling you.

And your point is right, if you look in the Solo/Open/Groups thread series in the first two threads quite a few of the "PvP'ers" used the expression "If you don't like it, don't play in open".
The more PvE centric players kept saying that was the wrong attitude to have and that sooner or later it would lead to problems, but we were ignored.

Now Frontier are looking at locking content to force people to play in open (which will fail if they do it imo) but the problem is still the same.
The perceived attitude is either "get out of open" from one set of PvP'ers or completely apathy from the others.
And those who didn't want PvP to start with will just have less content to play and a bitter feeling toward FDev for doing it.

Even now, if you in the feedback area there is still more of the same going on - PvP Vs PvE.

Cmdr Nemo · May 28, 2018

I think it boils down to ones personal understanding or acceptance of the term "GRIEFING". As a nood way back last year, I avoided open not because I was scared about the rebuy, but knowing my skill level involving pew pew, just didn't want to utilize any of my time investing in that aspect of the game. I was committed to makeing as much cr's as possible. The learning curve at my age, the eye hand coordination I had to learn both prohibited my from doing both pew pew and making cr's. However, while concetrating on making my first billion of more than 10 which I've got now. I managed to learn to high wake, low wake and when push came to shove, if need be, combat logging was also part of my escape plan. Though in solo, CL was never ever needed, I though it a good thing to learn for possible utilization(s) if and when the day came I ventured into the infamous "OPEN" mode.

Well I'm here, and subsequently only been interdicted by humans a half dozen times. One of which was what I would deem after playing since launch a "GRIEFER". I mean I've been interdicted since launch a thousand times by NPC's and only a half dozen humans, so I'm not an expert on the difference, so I have to rely on my own understanding of the term, and did so. Once determined, I had no qualms, pulling the cord and breaking the connection. I can only HOPE it iritated the heck out of the guy when it appeared that I CL'ed when if FDev would check, it would be considered a simple disconect. And if as I HOPPED he/she/other was upset. Great, I mean, I wasn't happy that he/she/other was griefing me, thus it's worked out to be a tie, we were both un happy, however, it was for two different reason involving the same instance.

Though I can understand how a compete noob would believe that every interdiction is by a griefer, hence do bit more CL's. IN time, they will learn that not all human interdictions are griefers.