With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!

[Ralph Vargr]

I wonder why I stay in solo?

Insurance Claim #41 was testing a sidewinder, with a grade 3 cannon build. Works fine, except on Elite NPC Anacondas that show up out of the Lost Sock Dimension.

 

[kofeyh]

what if your 'hard-mode' character died from a bug?

Far more likely to die from my own stupidity - and guess what? I did. I shot at a type-9 (that happened to be armed with 3 banks of class 2 missiles) in a DBX. I have learned from that.

Primarily that man do missiles really hurt at near point blank.

Also that has nothing to do with cheating? If I die. I die. It's pretty simple.

Maybe you're in SC and the game glitched, went a bit kaleidoscope-like, and you crash out of the game, log back in and you're at the insurance screen.

Again, this is a bug; that's not a sensible reason to intentional killing the process to avoid consequence. I don't care how you try to justify breaking the game to achieve advantage, or what loophole you invent; be it dodgy modules, or killing the process; it's intentional subversion of intended consequence.

Anyone who values this game, values the notion of a working crime and punishment system and values the concept of risk versus reward, should absolutely be 100% against combat logging. Regardless of reason.

 

[kofeyh]

There's a deceptively thin line between what's fair, and what's plain unfair.

There is no valid justification for killing the game client to avoid consequence. None. If you experience a bug, log it. If the ship loss means that much to you, ask for it back. Frontier support are about the best people on the planet.

But don't, ever, attempt to justify avoiding consequence, as though that's valid, and expect that to be "okay" and accepted. It's not. The game is designed to intentionally at times be unfair. We don't always forever always get to walk away like the hero, without a scratch.

There is no justification; just excuses. And I don't really care for endless excuses. There is no converting me to believe. Fly safe.

 

[Stigbob]

There is no valid justification for killing the game client to avoid consequence. None. If you experience a bug, log it. If the ship loss means that much to you, ask for it back. Frontier support are about the best people on the planet.

But don't, ever, attempt to justify avoiding consequence, as though that's valid, and expect that to be "okay" and accepted. It's not. The game is designed to intentionally at times be unfair. We don't always forever always get to walk away like the hero, without a scratch.

There is no justification; just excuses. And I don't really care for endless excuses. There is no converting me to believe. Fly safe.

How about avoiding someone who cheats or only wants to irritate you ?.

 

[Riverside]

How about avoiding someone who cheats or only wants to irritate you ?.

Once you have met the player & established that you don't want to play with them you can use either the blacklist or whitelist rules to prevent or reduce the likelihood of seeing them again. You could report the cheat too.

Two wrongs don't make a right

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
Again, this is a bug;…
; it's intentional subversion of intended consequence.
…

If something is a bug, then it's not intentional, therefore the consequences aren't intended consequences.

Killing the game client while experiencing a bug is about the only time I would agree that killing the task is acceptable (and if there is a hardware failure).

It obviously depends on the bug. Things aren't that extremely black and white as some commenters often hope/think/want.
And the problem is that if other players are involved it gets extremely difficult to know if something is a bug. Things get complicated quickly and turn into grey quickly.

It would help everybody if we all would try not to be so extremely dogmatic.

 

[Vorxian]

There is no valid justification for killing the game client to avoid consequence. None. If you experience a bug, log it. If the ship loss means that much to you, ask for it back. Frontier support are about the best people on the planet.

But don't, ever, attempt to justify avoiding consequence, as though that's valid, and expect that to be "okay" and accepted. It's not. The game is designed to intentionally at times be unfair. We don't always forever always get to walk away like the hero, without a scratch.

There is no justification; just excuses. And I don't really care for endless excuses. There is no converting me to believe. Fly safe.

I get you kofeyh... I get ya.

But realistically.. this is sort of suffragette-like. Punishing ones-self to over-amplified morality.

Bit like, me driving down the road, realising i'm doing 74 in a 70mph zone.. bee-lining to the first police station and throwing myself on the floor, accepting whatever consequences may happen.


I'm all for abiding by the law / rules / governance etc... but... some things are over hyped. Sometimes.. the authorities just don't give two hoots.. If you handed yourself in to the police station for doing a self-confessed red light jump... they'll probably say.. dont do it again.. but have a good day! They're not going to take your licence and give you 6 points voluntarily.

Combat logging to an NPC, yeah it's not good, but does anyone care? no one. Combat log to another player, and yeah it's different. Different scenario entirely.

 

[Truesilver]

This thread seems to have descended into some kind of circular discussion about whether it's ok to cheat if you disagree with Frontier's Support's decisions. Like, if you think Support should have banned a guy and they haven't, whether it's ok to cheat on that guy?

Of course it isn't. As adults it's barely even worthy of discussion. I personally think every Clogger (in any mode) should long since have been banned but that doesn't mean I'm allowed to hack if I see them.

It's like saying that if I disagree with a forum moderator's decision, then it's ok for me to swear at another user on the forum. Or if I disagree with a referee's decision on a RL pitch, then it's ok to cheat for the rest of the match. Of course it isn't.

If I ran this game (... thank mercy for all our sakes that I don't), back in early 2015 I would have identified twelve customers ...

- Three who Clogged in Solo

- Three who Clogged in Open

- Three who used the cargo scan exploit

- Three who shield hacked

... and I'd have permanently banned the whole dirty dozen, with an email and screenshots confirming this action sent to every single person who bought this game, and to the gaming press.

Then we would never have had any of the ensuing problems (though, doubtless, we'd have had others...)

But I don't make the rules around here, nor does any other forum user. I'm not entitled to cheat because Frontier Support don't do things as I wish, and neither is any other customer.

 

[Vorxian]

then going back to the logout timer debate.. I for one think the timer as it stands is ok. Any more it's too punishing.

Anyone that wants the time to be more can role play more time? eg, wait 15 seconds on the menu screen, before hitting log out to start the 15s. That way it's like a 30 second timer

Imposing it on other players is like me saying... well I think 20% VAT is too low.. I think it should be doubled, then imposing that 40% VAT on everyone. That % double would be detrimental to a lot of people.


That's just my personal opinion. doesn't mean i'm right or wrong.. just the way my brain reacts posed with the notion of more timers in game.

 

[NeilF]

then going back to the logout timer debate.. I for one think the timer as it stands is ok. Any more it's too punishing.

Anyone that wants the time to be more can role play more time? eg, wait 15 seconds on the menu screen, before hitting log out to start the 15s. That way it's like a 30 second timer

Imposing it on other players is like me saying... well I think 20% VAT is too low.. I think it should be doubled, then imposing that 40% VAT on everyone. That % double would be detrimental to a lot of people.


That's just my personal opinion. doesn't mean i'm right or wrong.. just the way my brain reacts posed with the notion of more timers in game.

1) If a CMDR is exiting to menu, show the timer to all CMDRs in the instance.
2) If the CMDR is hit during the 15 seconds (the first time) increment it by a further 15 seconds for a total of 30 seconds.
3) Exit the game automatically at the end of the timer without the need to confirm.

 

[NeilF]

There is no valid justification for killing the game client to avoid consequence. None. If you experience a bug, log it. If the ship loss means that much to you, ask for it back. Frontier support are about the best people on the planet.

But don't, ever, attempt to justify avoiding consequence, as though that's valid, and expect that to be "okay" and accepted. It's not. The game is designed to intentionally at times be unfair. We don't always forever always get to walk away like the hero, without a scratch.

There is no justification; just excuses. And I don't really care for endless excuses. There is no converting me to believe. Fly safe.

Thing is... I suspect a lot of CMDRs "killing the game" don't do it to avoid consequences. I think they do it to avoid rewarding/feeding the griefers...

 

[Stigbob]

Thing is... I suspect a lot of CMDRs "killing the game" don't do it to avoid consequences. I think they do it to avoid rewarding/feeding the griefers...

Yep, I don't care a fig about rule lawyering, KOS threats, getting exploded, space cash, e-honour or the butthurt pearl clutchers it's just a video game.

I won't play any game with cheats though.

 

[Oddisee]

15 seconds is what the FSD would need to highwake so i think it's okay.
Most ships wouldn't even resist a 15 second attack from an engineered aggressor.

Tied to rebuy is the worst idea in my opinion. I have a smuggling silent running anaconda. She runs shieldless but for this with modded reactive surface composite. It doesn't provide the same amount of protection like a shield but instead i have 40mil rebuy for a shieldless trader.
Just a bad idea!

Flying a 40m rebuy Anaconda without shields and then complaining about it is a pretty bad idea too.

 

[NeilF]

Yep, I don't care a fig about rule lawyering, KOS threats, getting exploded, space cash, e-honour or the butthurt pearl clutchers it's just a video game.

I won't play any game with cheats though.

That's fair enough. And there's a lot of CMDRs I suspect who are fed up trying to play a game that is still - after 2.5yrs - turning a blind eye to cynical toxic destruction for the lolz, and for no real ingame reasons - The more cynical, the more one side, the more pointless the better...

Got to hope the new C&P (karma) mechanics finally addresses this to some degree...

 

[Kaocraft]

Interesting how angry the pew pew crowd got when their god rolls were removed.

As opposed to the anti-pew-pew crowd, who have always been angry and just keep getting angrier no matter what happens.

 

[Heavenly-Hammer]

Thing is... I suspect a lot of CMDRs "killing the game" don't do it to avoid consequences. I think they do it to avoid rewarding/feeding the griefers...

Nah, it's to avoid consequences. Be real. People don't want to lose their rebuy, bounties, scan data, cargo. It's always some combination of those.

 

[Mohrgan]

Nah, it's to avoid consequences. Be real. People don't want to lose their rebuy, bounties, scan data, cargo. It's always some combination of those.

This goes for everyone. Not just those terrible shieldless traders. I can't tell you how many times, even in the short time I patrolled Eravate, a HoBro would log when the cavalry would show up. To be honest, I have never witnessed a trader combat log. I've only ever seen seal clubbers do it.

 

[NeilF]

Nah, it's to avoid consequences. Be real. People don't want to lose their rebuy, bounties, scan data, cargo. It's always some combination of those.

Possibly... But I bet a huge proportion is also they just don't want to reward pointless toxic and cynical destruction...

 

[Truesilver]

Possibly... But I bet a huge proportion is also they just don't want to reward pointless toxic and cynical destruction...

A 'huge proportion'...? A huge proportion are taking an ethical stand...??

You gotta be kidding me, NeilF, that isn't the way the world works, and certainly not the internet.

We are the outliers. We know about this game - to an extent, at least. But most don't.

I know several RL friends and family members who have bought the game. They don't know about any of this stuff. They've never heard of SDC, AA, Code, whatever. One is a Backer. I had to tell him the difference between a fixed weapon and a gimballed weapon. He was amazed. (I'm not making this up.) Most don't know whether they've met another player, let alone fought one.

I have no idea whether my RL family/friends CL or not but if they do, it isn't because they're taking a stand against something they don't even know exists. They're just in their own little world.

Clogging is not some kind of mass moral protest, it's just people doing something that seemed helpful in Baldur's Gate (save, fight monster, if not going well against monster, try again without loss) or more recent games, or in Solo, and carrying on doing it.

Although I agree with Mohrgan that most prolific logging is done by a handful of PvP bottom-feeders, I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of incidental logging is essentially carried out with as much moral cogitation as I put into changing a TV channel if I don't like what's on, then changing back a couple of minutes later to see whether it's improved.