With the implementation o NEW Karma e C&P - Will the Log timer go up? 15 secs is to low!

[Ian Skippy]

This is all well and good but no one has answered my previous reply on this why should solo and private groups be forced to endure a much longer logout to satisfy the PVP players in open if they want this then the timer should be removed from the other modes, also the things that kick the timer in should be changed as well would should I be forced to wait the 60 seconds or more to logout just because I am fuel scooping by a star or my SRV is near a base although I am not being fired on in solo or a player group.

One thing I don't believe lengthening the logout timer will do is actually help these players get what they want I just believe we will see a increase in combat logging even with the proposed karma system, how long will it take for griefers to work out how much positives in game actions will be needed to out weigh a few negative combat logs or if they use a underpowered weaponless ship to combat log only suffer a lower drop as the pvper is in a much better warship, or worse still use the p2p exploits to kill players from their instance to save themselves so they are still connected to FD servers and so negate the karma points

You shouldnt be able to use the quicktimer to escape NPCs either. It has nothing to do with modes. This exploity behavior is more noticable in Open, but it is every bit as exploity in the other modes. The "if people cnat exploit they will cheat' reasoning IMHO only says something about the author of such a post, btw.

 

[kinglemo2000]

You shouldnt be able to use the quicktimer to escape NPCs either. It has nothing to do with modes. This exploity behavior is more noticable in Open, but it is every bit as exploity in the other modes. The "if people cnat exploit they will cheat' reasoning IMHO only says something about the author of such a post, btw.

Sorry but you never read the full post there are other things that also cause the timer to kick in like being to near a star etc, I don't see why solo or PG players should have to suffer a longer 60 sec logout just because a few open pew pewers get salty over not getting their exploding pixel fix. NPC are no problem anyway, it just I get peed that when I choose to play in solo that someone wants to dictate how I play my game and how long I have wait until I want to log out, I suppose that the next thing the pew pewers will be asking for is my adder or courier engines to be nerfed as I fly away to fast so they cant pew pew me.

And thanks for calling me a cheater lovely coming from someone who doesn't know from Adam as I have never combat logged and have been destroyed three times by players in a year of playing

 

[FoxtrotF]

The only thing they need to do is to not take the insurance cost when it PvP, or reduce it to 1%, or put a option if the player wants to participate in PvP combat.

 

[Truesilver]

The only thing they need to do is to not take the insurance cost when it PvP, or reduce it to 1%, or put a option if the player wants to participate in PvP combat.

This is fine for consensual duelling, but it would pull the rug out from under the feet of those such as Powerplayers or player-controlled system attackers/defenders, for whom a key part of the objective is to cause the enemy 'fleet' to suffer loss, forcing the guys on the other team to re-allocate resources into making up the losses.

I can think of several occasions when a player group I know of either suffered or inflicted the lasting loss of an Anaconda/Corvette-class ship in conflict with another group, because the guy concerned couldn't afford the rebuys so had to drop down into something smaller until he'd made up for the losses. (I could name three Cmdrs I know of that this happened to.) Which is great! (For structured PvP warfare.)

Admittedly, credit inflation has practically ended this aspect of the game anyway, but this would be the final nail in the coffin.

 

[FoxtrotF]

This is fine for consensual duelling, but it would pull the rug out from under the feet of those such as Powerplayers or player-controlled system attackers/defenders, for whom a key part of the objective is to cause the enemy 'fleet' to suffer loss, forcing the guys on the other team to re-allocate resources into making up the losses.

I can think of several occasions when a player group I know of either suffered or inflicted the lasting loss of an Anaconda/Corvette-class ship in conflict with another group, because the guy concerned couldn't afford the rebuys so had to drop down into something smaller until he'd made up for the losses. (I could name three Cmdrs I know of that this happened to.) Which is great! (For structured PvP warfare.)

Admittedly, credit inflation has practically ended this aspect of the game anyway, but this would be the final nail in the coffin.

Ok, for the fraction players or who has imp/fed rank the option could be to "froze" destroyed ship for couple of days for big ships and hours for smaller OR an option to pay insurance. But also there is should be an a option for these who hates PvP not to participate in battle, and only after such option is implemented it reasonable and ethic to raise up log off timers, and by the way, currently I'm on weak LTE connection, so my option only to loose a ship when my network connection is dropped? Or may be I should have an option to continue the battle (if other player will want to do so) after the connection is reestablished?
P.S. And another option could be to store in shipyard your destroyed ship, but you will need pay money for repair, equal to insurance cost. And for exploration data (player ejected it during the battle) it could be a "recovery mission, even with sub quests" to retrieve it.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't see why solo or PG players should have to suffer a longer 60 sec logout just because a few open pew pewers get salty over not getting their exploding pixel fix.

I am not a PvP player, and I can assure you I am not 'salty'. Your ad hominems and strawmen are feeble. Its borderline paranoia btw, to always assume that 'evil pew pew'ers are out to get you'. We're just discussing the rules of a game, in which some, including FD, feel that the current time may be insufficient.

 

[kinglemo2000]

I am not a PvP player, and I can assure you I am not 'salty'. Your ad hominems and strawmen are feeble. Its borderline paranoia btw, to always assume that 'evil pew pew'ers are out to get you'. We're just discussing the rules of a game, in which some, including FD, feel that the current time may be insufficient.

Unlike you who insinuated in your posts I was a cheater, I never presumed or stated that you was a PvPer or was salty, I never stated that the PvPer were evil and out to get me either, what I did state that it is the PvPers that are getting salty over the length of the logout timer and are always the one's complaining about classing it the same as combat logging setting KOS list of gamers placing videos on reddit that use it and now demanding a 60 sec timer, what I am saying is why should I be inconvenienced and have to wait 60 sec to logout in solo to appease someone in open when PLAYING IN SOLO. If they want a longer timer then it should only apply to open mode and not solo. I have no interest in PvP battles but when in open I do expect to be interdicted sometimes that is why I fly fast small ships to escape and I have to say experience has taught me that some PvPer don't like the fact my ship is fast and I just fly away and have stated as such in the text comms in a less than polite manner in the past. I don't log against a player my rebuys on my two open play ships are so low that it would take less than 5min to earn them back.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that a solo player shouldn't have to be subjected a stupidly long proposed logout timer it has no meaning for instance my FDL, corvette or conda left in a haz res would take several minutes to be destoryed if left so it makes no odds and won't effect the game so why should I be forced to sit and wait the proposed 60 secs just to satisfy you it is not exploity as you say
Anyway I have got nothing else to discuss with someone that likes making lots of assumptions about me without knowing me so goodbye I think I am going to bang my head against a brick wall for a hour

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Unlike you who insinuated in your posts I was a cheater, I never presumed or stated that you was a PvPer or was salty, I never stated that the PvPer were evil and out to get me either, what I did state that it is the PvPers that are getting salty over the length of the logout timer and are always the one's complaining about classing it the same as combat logging setting KOS list of gamers placing videos on reddit that use it and now demanding a 60 sec timer, what I am saying is why should I be inconvenienced and have to wait 60 sec to logout in solo to appease someone in open when PLAYING IN SOLO. If they want a longer timer then it should only apply to open mode and not solo. I have no interest in PvP battles but when in open I do expect to be interdicted sometimes that is why I fly fast small ships to escape and I have to say experience has taught me that some PvPer don't like the fact my ship is fast and I just fly away and have stated as such in the text comms in a less than polite manner in the past. I don't log against a player my rebuys on my two open play ships are so low that it would take less than 5min to earn them back.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that a solo player shouldn't have to be subjected a stupidly long proposed logout timer it has no meaning for instance my FDL, corvette or conda left in a haz res would take several minutes to be destoryed if left so it makes no odds and won't effect the game so why should I be forced to sit and wait the proposed 60 secs just to satisfy you it is not exploity as you say
Anyway I have got nothing else to discuss with someone that likes making lots of assumptions about me without knowing me so goodbye I think I am going to bang my head against a brick wall for a hour

I have never been in a situation where 60 seconds for a log out would cause me to die or be inconvenienced. I have a wife, social life and kids and it has never happened. 1 minute - such an inconvenience when there are far more inconvenient time sinks in game. I think you doth protest too much to not be a serial menu logger.

 

[Siobhan]

I have never been in a situation where 60 seconds for a log out would cause me to die or be inconvenienced. I have a wife, social life and kids and it has never happened. 1 minute - such an inconvenience when there are far more inconvenient time sinks in game. I think you doth protest too much to not be a serial menu logger.

Lucky you then
Most of us have. Though I must say that I've not yet done so myself.
My preference is to end the fight as fast as I can in the only way I know how, and more than once has this resulted in my opponent disappearing.
However, as far as I'm concerned, that ended the fight, and I logged off... Never has it taken 15 seconds to kill (or force to log) another player... so far... (though I spend 90% of my time in mobius or other PGs so my PvP experience is admittedly limited). The same I could say for my time in Eve Online. Kill fast and leave. But never say that 15s makes you safe, or one day I might prove otherwise.

 

[kinglemo2000]

I have never been in a situation where 60 seconds for a log out would cause me to die or be inconvenienced. I have a wife, social life and kids and it has never happened. 1 minute - such an inconvenience when there are far more inconvenient time sinks in game. I think you doth protest too much to not be a serial menu logger.

think what you like mate I don't really care anymore, I have said my piece bye

Actually hold that I will add one more thought for your brain cell if I am a serial logger in solo I wouldn't need to be arguing against a 60 sec timer for solo as all I would have to do is kill task all the time in solo for the last year and so it wouldn't affect me

 

[Soliluna]

I am not a PvP player, and I can assure you I am not 'salty'. Your ad hominems and strawmen are feeble. Its borderline paranoia btw, to always assume that 'evil pew pew'ers are out to get you'. We're just discussing the rules of a game, in which some, including FD, feel that the current time may be insufficient.

You have a lot of patience to respond to people like that. Have some rep.

 

[Truesilver]

The only thing they need to do is to not take the insurance cost when it PvP, or reduce it to 1%, or put a option if the player wants to participate in PvP combat.

This is fine for consensual duelling, but it would pull the rug out from under the feet of those such as Powerplayers or player-controlled system attackers/defenders, for whom a key part of the objective is to cause the enemy 'fleet' to suffer loss, forcing the guys on the other team to re-allocate resources into making up the losses.

I can think of several occasions when a player group I know of either suffered or inflicted the lasting loss of an Anaconda/Corvette-class ship in conflict with another group, because the guy concerned couldn't afford the rebuys so had to drop down into something smaller until he'd made up for the losses. (I could name three Cmdrs I know of that this happened to.) Which is great! (For structured PvP warfare.)

Admittedly, credit inflation has practically ended this aspect of the game anyway, but this would be the final nail in the coffin.

Ok, for the fraction players or who has imp/fed rank the option could be to "froze" destroyed ship for couple of days for big ships and hours for smaller OR an option to pay insurance. But also there is should be an a option for these who hates PvP not to participate in battle, and only after such option is implemented it reasonable and ethic to raise up log off timers, and by the way, currently I'm on weak LTE connection, so my option only to loose a ship when my network connection is dropped? Or may be I should have an option to continue the battle (if other player will want to do so) after the connection is reestablished?
P.S. And another option could be to store in shipyard your destroyed ship, but you will need pay money for repair, equal to insurance cost. And for exploration data (player ejected it during the battle) it could be a "recovery mission, even with sub quests" to retrieve it.

@FoxtrotF I would just like to say props and repped for reading my post, in which I gave reasons for disagreeing with one of yours as quoted above, and then responding to my objections with a series of new, reasoned, alternative proposals that took my objections into account.

This is the best of forum dialogue, o7

 

[Kaa Mchorror]

Lucky you then
Most of us have. Though I must say that I've not yet done so myself.
My preference is to end the fight as fast as I can in the only way I know how, and more than once has this resulted in my opponent disappearing.
However, as far as I'm concerned, that ended the fight, and I logged off... Never has it taken 15 seconds to kill (or force to log) another player... so far... (though I spend 90% of my time in mobius or other PGs so my PvP experience is admittedly limited). The same I could say for my time in Eve Online. Kill fast and leave. But never say that 15s makes you safe, or one day I might prove otherwise.

Unless you are in active danger there is no timer. It takes very little time for the "in danger" marker to disappear. The people against this are fighting against a non-issue. Just another case of players gaming the system not wanting their toys taken away.

think what you like mate I don't really care anymore, I have said my piece bye

Actually hold that I will add one more thought for your brain cell if I am a serial logger in solo I wouldn't need to be arguing against a 60 sec timer for solo as all I would have to do is kill task all the time in solo for the last year and so it wouldn't affect me

If you don't care why respond?

 

[kinglemo2000]

Unless you are in active danger there is no timer. It takes very little time for the "in danger" marker to disappear. The people against this are fighting against a non-issue. Just another case of players gaming the system not wanting their toys taken away.


If you don't care why respond?

Because I changed my mind so answer the question if I am a serial logger in SOLO why would I argue against the 60 second timer when I could just task kill which would be quicker anyway, I could just carry on playing and not entered this discussion as the proposed 60 sec discussion would not affect me,

 

[Riverside]

Because I changed my mind so answer the question if I am a serial logger in SOLO why would I argue against the 60 second timer when I could just task kill which would be quicker anyway, I could just carry on playing and not entered this discussion as the proposed 60 sec discussion would not affect me,

Increasing the timer on it's own would indeed just increase CLogging. In combination with a CLogging deterrent it could be made to work.
Using the legal timer to save your ship from the consequences of your decision seems pretty lame to me, it's using out-of game mechanics to solve in-game problems.
The ship in danger timer must remain because FDev need to provide a way to exit the game under any circumstances.
The 15sec timer is okay, it simulates a high wake (sort of), but it might be better for the game to encourage the player to actually high wake.
The obvious way to do this is to make waiting out the timer less compelling than getting out of danger before exiting.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Why is it so hard for you to understand that a solo player shouldn't have to be subjected a stupidly long proposed logout timer it has no meaning for instance my FDL, corvette or conda left in a haz res would take several minutes to be destoryed if left so it makes no odds and won't effect the game so why should I be forced to sit and wait the proposed 60 secs just to satisfy you it is not exploity as you say
Anyway I have got nothing else to discuss with someone that likes making lots of assumptions about me without knowing me so goodbye I think I am going to bang my head against a brick wall for a hour

Punctuation is your friend. Anyway, "I can stand there for minutes" is just an argument to make the timer a few minutes. Here's the argument this topic is about:

1) The timer is not for escaping stuff.
2) If you want to escape stuff, use hi-wake. It will end any timer. So if the timer is a million hours, a simple hi-wake will fix it. Using the menu is exploity.
3) This has nothing to do with pvp, salty, butt-hurt, evil, griefers, anything. This goes for all modes, for all reasons, in all circumstances.
4) If real-life emergences call your attention, by all means attend to them. We all do. Just dont complain your virtual space ship exploded.

Lucky you then
Most of us have. Though I must say that I've not yet done so myself.

Dont you find it all that none of 'you' are part of 'you'? They all claim 'most of us are in that situation' and 'I personally dont use the menu'. Dont get me wrong, I am not calling you a liar. But if none of you do it, whats the problem with extending the timer?

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

4) If real-life emergences call your attention, by all means attend to them. We all do. Just dont complain your virtual space ship exploded.

Are virtual spaceships so meaningless, disposable, and expendable?

Not to me they're not.

I'm rather attached to mine - at least the bigger ones, the Cutter & Conda. Especially if I have active crew on board who've been with me for a long time.

I'm also rather attached to mine because of the hours of effort I put into earning them - no in-game exploits for me, thanks. The only time I've had a Cutter explode was when I made that video about the techniques used at stations to blow up players inside the station trying to get out. After that I haven't lost either of the big two.

I suspect this is what it comes down to. I suspect that for the more rabid PvP'ers out there, their ships are merely disposable assets - and thus this means everyone else's ships are equally disposable.

I think that's the crux of this whole issue - players like myself grow attached to their virtual spaceship, and to other types of player, they're just a virtual spaceship.

 

[jasonbarron]

Are virtual spaceships so meaningless, disposable, and expendable?

Not to me they're not.

I'm rather attached to mine - at least the bigger ones, the Cutter & Conda. Especially if I have active crew on board who've been with me for a long time.

I'm also rather attached to mine because of the hours of effort I put into earning them - no in-game exploits for me, thanks. The only time I've had a Cutter explode was when I made that video about the techniques used at stations to blow up players inside the station trying to get out. After that I haven't lost either of the big two.

I suspect this is what it comes down to. I suspect that for the more rabid PvP'ers out there, their ships are merely disposable assets - and thus this means everyone else's ships are equally disposable.

I think that's the crux of this whole issue - players like myself grow attached to their virtual spaceship, and to other types of player, they're just a virtual spaceship.

Um, Genar, actually they really ARE just virtual spaceships....

 

[Truesilver]

Are virtual spaceships so meaningless, disposable, and expendable?

Not to me they're not.

I'm rather attached to mine - at least the bigger ones, the Cutter & Conda. Especially if I have active crew on board who've been with me for a long time.

I'm also rather attached to mine because of the hours of effort I put into earning them - no in-game exploits for me, thanks. The only time I've had a Cutter explode was when I made that video about the techniques used at stations to blow up players inside the station trying to get out. After that I haven't lost either of the big two.

I suspect this is what it comes down to. I suspect that for the more rabid PvP'ers out there, their ships are merely disposable assets - and thus this means everyone else's ships are equally disposable.

I think that's the crux of this whole issue - players like myself grow attached to their virtual spaceship, and to other types of player, they're just a virtual spaceship.

Nice post as ever, sir.

I hear, read, understand and agree with everything you have to say ... until you reach the implication that we should log instead of pilot.

Nah.

We try piloting.

If it doesn't work.

We die.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Nice post as ever, sir.

I hear, read, understand and agree with everything you have to say ... until you reach the implication that we should log instead of pilot.

Nah.

We try piloting.

If it doesn't work.

We die.

Can you outline where I even implied about logging?

I'm pointing out something which I have observed many times in a somewhat semi-obsessive 'study' of the rabid-PvP'ers.

"Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."

I'm pointing out a very basic - almost simple - observation, but from which in my opinion, a lot of the problems in this game stem. That is, one type of player thinks ships are expendable. Another type does not. It seems crystal clear to me that that one simple thing there can spawn a hundred problems in a game where both types of players can encounter each other.

Open connectivity mode in this game is like joining two different universes together - in one universe, everyone's doing all the things offered to them within. The other universe is basically CQC Galaxy.

Um, Genar, actually they really ARE just virtual spaceships....

Ah, jason. Always missing my point