Would you prefer C&P back how it was?

[Cmdr Mackara]

I'd just have bounties under some threshold (2k cr or so) payable a station as well as a factor as a quality of life change. But it still takes some doing to get above that.

Maybe a shady character could comms you the first time you exceed that limit with instructions on how to pay off for new people. Other than that though, I'd say it is better.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's not been out even a week yet, guys. Give it a chance.

 

[c00ky1970]

I thought the easiest way to mitigate is do a crime, go and buy a sidey and turn in your mission in that. Take more missions that involve crime in sidey, fly to system where you parked your ship and swap to it to do more crime?

I thought criminals were Masterminds, evil genius’, malevolent masters of mayhem, not crybaby lolligaggers, pulchrimonius plebs Or any other alliterative allusions to their inadequacies ;-)

 

[Ouberos]

It's not been out even a week yet, guys. Give it a chance.

You must be new here. Over a week is like a hundred years in forum years.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Old system had Bounties, Fines, Timers, invisible Dormant Bounties, Legacy Fines; and all that complication resulted in no real consequences for a player. They could pretty much be ignored most of the time and where they did result in a slight inconvenience, I could just commit suicide to remove even that.

The new system seems much simpler and more logical to me. Crimes have obvious consequences and cause reasonable restrictions. Maybe a few small tweeks needed in a couple of places and perhaps an inbox message from the authorities when you do commit a crime, but overall a great improvement.

 

[sollisb]

Here's my take;

Got an 800cr Bounty last night for wrong target. So jumped to next system to figure out what I had to do.

YouTube/Reddit/FB Help all showed me the way. Not a bit of info from FDev bar the patch notes. So anyways; Find an Interstellar Forge. Okay, I do that by using the Galaxy Map, and then picking Instellar on the Services filter.

Okay do that and I see a grand total of 2 on the Map.

Okay, pick one, check all station, no sign of Interstellar Forge

Okay, pick the second, check all stations, no sign of Interstellar Forge.

Back to friendly help on Facebook

It's called Broker Network in the station services. Weird.. It's something different in the Map.. Oh well, on we go...

Back to first System and find a station with Broker Network, and fly there.

Get near the station and am hailed and told I should leave immediately or face lethal consequences. I also get a message telling me I am a Criminal and have no docking privileges. So leave and find the 2nd location.

Go there, and again as I approach station get hailed and told to leave immediately or blah blah, blow me.. So I request docking privs anyway, and they say come on in, sit me down give me a cuppa, chocolate digestive and let me pay off my 800cr.

Took almost 2 hours fiddling around. All for 800cr !! Is someone on drugs in Fdev ?

They've taken a small problem, inflated it, redesigned in and come up with the most convoluted, bloated and buggy system, which fixes, from what I can see, absolutely nothing.

Likewise the engineers. They took a small problem, 'too grindy', and created a behemoth of a system that is even more grindy!! And at the same time, nerfed the KWS making it useless. It looks nice, kudos to the art department, but the implementation is again, bloatware, over spec'd and over dare I say, engineered.

They've taken a mission system that was working, albeit, buggy, and again, overbloated it, and left it buggy. I got a board all zeros yesterday in a boom system!

Seriously, and I know I'm vocal, but these guys are just not up to the job of creating a 'game'. Games are meant to be fun and engaging. Elite Dangerous is a graphical masterpiece, let down by it's game design team. There appears to be no imagination there. Anything they touch, they over-scope and over-engineer. And it's never engaging! It's like they strive to annoy the playerbase, make the player do things the most difficult way they can, and this I believe is down to lack of imagination, lack of development testing and quality, and more, bad project management.

I've designed and helped design m,any online text games (MUDs) and I have never once, tried to annoy the player. Key is engaging the player and making activities fun, while balancing the player ability at any given level to the content you provide for them. And then you reward them!! The player feels accomplished and comes back for more.

Fdev's philosophy seems to be 'we have no &%$ clue, so we'll make it difficult, laborious and reward pittance'. And then, we'll make them do it repeatedly, and the reward? Well, we'll just make them throw a dice, if they don't get a 6, they lose. But we'll show them lots of things they can buy in the store. Lovely jubbly.

 

[xaisis]

I kinda like it this way.

Now i can take my "murder ship" and go kill all the things, until they are dead.


Then go back to my "I am a good citizen >ship<" hehh, and go shoot some pirates.


Maybe even trade a bid!.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Firstly, there's the pro-criminals.
For them, the whole C&P thing is a constant battle of wits with FDev.
FDev come up with rules and the criminals figure out ways to circumvent them, or turn them to their advantage.
It ends up like a big ol' game of chess, where both sides are trying to think 5 moves ahead and sucker the opposition into doing things which will trip them up.

Secondly, there's the other 95% of players, who's only experience of C&P is likely to brief, accidental and minor.
And, as a result of what's going on with the other group, they're all left absolutely bloody baffled.

There's also - prominent on the forums, who knows what proportion in game - the "draconian punishment" requestors.

You saw them cheering on Frontier at the concept of C&P reform, laughing during Beta - despite the actual evidence from testing! - at the thought of it being implemented putting every ganker in a small permanent box, and so forth.

Presumably they're currently all celebrating their new freedom under our new ATR overlords by taking their shieldless Cutters to the trade CG in Open, and haven't had time to post on the forum much since.

There was a big push on the forums for "stronger C&P". Now we have it. Can't say Frontier doesn't give the players what they asked for and so richly deserve.

(I predict the next big forum battle will be between the "two hours with an unclearable bounty for accidentally killing one NPC?!" and the "only twenty hours AFK for a mass-murder binge?!" factions)

 

[Perseus]

I also thinkt the system is good (bugs like Powerplay Notority or low level bounties bettter being fines hopefully being ironed out soon). But I wouldn't say it's designed to "discourage" crime but to put consequences to crime. That's a littel difference. In fact crime was buffed with new opportunities and better payment for pve piracy. I believe only by implementing consequences for crime now frontier can also implement rewards (or even better content) for criminal game-play.

Of course random player killing should be discouraged, if this is what you are refering to as "crime" whilst still making consensual pvp and powerplay valid pvp combat options.

Also I hope that the new C&P system only is a milestone to the goal of a consensual criminal vs bountyhunter pvp gameplay.

Are we sure notoriety for PP is a bug? I quite like the idea of getting notoriety for PP (after all, we are killing 'innocent' PP ships). It makes a Cmdr think twice about doing regular crime after a stint of service for a power; or at least adjust playstyle/ship for crime activity.

 

[Bryan K]

I like the new system. Sure, using interstellar factors after each round of planetary scan missions is a 5 minute detour, and it’s a little annoying that I have to be in the ship that incurred the bounty, but other than that, I have no issues with it.

It helps that I try to behave myself by not doing things like shooting at people in no-fire zones or hitting clean ships in RESs. Is that really so hard?

 

[zombieapocalypse]

I'm currently updating my ED beginner's guide to incorporate changes and new features from 3.0. I have to admit I'm leaving C&P til last - I'm not looking forward to trying to explain that!

 

[sollisb]

There's also - prominent on the forums, who knows what proportion in game - the "draconian punishment" requestors.

You saw them cheering on Frontier at the concept of C&P reform, laughing during Beta - despite the actual evidence from testing! - at the thought of it being implemented putting every ganker in a small permanent box, and so forth.

Presumably they're currently all celebrating their new freedom under our new ATR overlords by taking their shieldless Cutters to the trade CG in Open, and haven't had time to post on the forum much since.

There was a big push on the forums for "stronger C&P". Now we have it. Can't say Frontier doesn't give the players what they asked for and so richly deserve.

(I predict the next big forum battle will be between the "two hours with an unclearable bounty for accidentally killing one NPC?!" and the "only twenty hours AFK for a mass-murder binge?!" factions)

Not really true at all !!

The problem was PvP ganking on trade ships and newbies. I have never in my years here, heard someone complain about being killed 1 on 1. For sure some salt, but not a 'the system is broken'..

A simple fix would have been to measure the combined hull + shields + Data Worth + Cargo Worth VS the hull + shields of all attackers. Take that and use it as a formula to reduce the rebuy for the target and as a bounty for the attackers.

There was no need to touch fines and all the other convoluted garbage.

I can't speak for the mindset of the kids and their PvP ships, but from a PvE perspective, they've made a mess. They've rendered the KWS a useless module and added a system so convoluted as to drive a saint to murder. And worse, they basically handed all PvPrs Guardian tech to engineer, and then said 'oh! we didn't mean to do that' and then raised the prices and made them unable to be engineered. No mention if they removed the already purchased and engineered modules.

Every single release they fail.

 

[sollisb]

I'm currently updating my ED beginner's guide to incorporate changes and new features from 3.0. I have to admit I'm leaving C&P til last - I'm not looking forward to trying to explain that!

To pay off a bounty you must have Notoriety of 0
You get Notoriety to 0 by staying online in the game for Notoriety x 2 hours. So N:4 = 8 hours. (From what I can see) But it's bugged as well, the timer doesn't work correctly.
When you have N:0 you search for a system with a station that has a 'Broker Network' - You find this by using the Galaxy Map features.
Open Galaxy Map and select filter by 'Services' and then 'Intellstellar' - The result of that will be systems with stations offering it.
You then pick a system, and then check all stations, including planetary, til you find a station offering 'Trader Network' (Don't ask me why it's named differently)
You then fly to that station. Dock and pay off. If it's a large bounty then the broker will inflate it for profit. Note: This is also bugged. You might reach the station and they'll tell you you're a criminal without docking privileges. You can ignore this flaff, and request docking.
Store the station as a map reference.

Hope this helps, I learnt it all last night to get rid of a 800cr bounty.

 

[Hossi]

I like the new system in general. It's certainly not perfect, but its much better then the old one. There are finaly consequences to criminal behaviour. You now have the opportunity to actually play as a criminal, with all its pros and cons.
Stuff that should be impoved
- There need to be a clear documentation, and it should be in the game. A nice flowchart of the procedure, and a tabel of offenses and there consequences.
- Either there are a few cases where the new system is too harsh and hands out bountys for accidents, or there are simply a few bug in there. Hard to say, since we lack a table to check how its supposed to be
- There should be a log telling you what happend. Can't be that hard to do, select the fine/bounty, it opens and tells you what happend, when, why you where fined, and what you should do now

 

[Imo]

My first experiences with C+P in 3.0:

I was in BOK at the anarchy nav beacon when I realized by shooting an npc Eagle that BOK was no longer an anarchy system. Did not kill the Eagle but got 100 Cr bounty on my Anaconda. Had to fly 8 jumps to STOPOVER to get rid off it and 8 jumps back to business.

I was in a real anarchy nav beacon now collecting materials. Unfortunately my limpets collect cargo also and when I drop it, they collect it again and again. I thought I got rid of all so called stolen cargo but at starport the whole starport was locked to me because of that crap.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

My first experiences with C+P in 3.0:

I was in BOK at the anarchy nav beacon when I realized by shooting an npc Eagle that BOK was no longer an anarchy system. Did not kill the Eagle but got 100 Cr bounty on my Anaconda. Had to fly 8 jumps to STOPOVER to get rid off it and 8 jumps back to business.

I was in a real anarchy nav beacon now collecting materials. Unfortunately my limpets collect cargo also and when I drop it, they collect it again and again. I thought I got rid of all so called stolen cargo but at starport the whole starport was locked to me because of that crap.

You can put cargo on ignore.

 

[sollisb]

I like the new system. Sure, using interstellar factors after each round of planetary scan missions is a 5 minute detour, and it’s a little annoying that I have to be in the ship that incurred the bounty, but other than that, I have no issues with it.

It helps that I try to behave myself by not doing things like shooting at people in no-fire zones or hitting clean ships in RESs. Is that really so hard?

Actually it is when you have a slow moving Cutter and NPCs that try to hug your face to scan you while you're full pelt against some wing of FAS/FGS etc. And! If you're in a Cutter and an unscanned ship flies into you (which they've been coded to) and then blows up, you get a bounty.

 

[mistohise]

Nope. I love the new system. I love it even more since it makes people really salty.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Nope. New one will take some tweaking but now there are some actual consequences.

It is similar to speed limits near station. People moaned a lit when they where introduced, some tweaks were done but they stayed.

As for assault bounties and accidental or not so accidental fire discharges...in my opinion it should be categorised by weapon type and strength. Fire anything that strips 2% of hull and you are done for.

 

[sollisb]

I like the new system in general. It's certainly not perfect, but its much better then the old one. There are finaly consequences to criminal behaviour. You now have the opportunity to actually play as a criminal, with all its pros and cons.
Stuff that should be impoved
- There need to be a clear documentation, and it should be in the game. A nice flowchart of the procedure, and a tabel of offenses and there consequences.
- Either there are a few cases where the new system is too harsh and hands out bountys for accidents, or there are simply a few bug in there. Hard to say, since we lack a table to check how its supposed to be
- There should be a log telling you what happend. Can't be that hard to do, select the fine/bounty, it opens and tells you what happend, when, why you where fined, and what you should do now

There is a log! I've just seen one where a CMDR got a wreckless flying fine and the station authorized lethal response!! Usual FDev sloppiness.