Xbox PVP community standards

Ok sorry for the misunderstanding (I am Italian so couldn't take 100% of your meaning LOL).

Your KWS situation is a bit of an extreme but yeah it may happen... and infact happened to me few times when low waking from combats (my fault).

Few weeks ago I got interdicted at the CG by the Rando Cop when at 4% hull and took another trip to the jail. Ok, fine... what's the problem?

Anyway, I agree and can copy/paste everything Cknarf said... I am afraid but there's no ground under a "that's your way... that's not my way..." to play the game in open mode.

Because it's open and that means what the word says... open.
 
It is absolutely about role play in a sandbox allowing the player to pick and choose the way they want to play. To that end, when YOUR version of role play doesn't jive with someone else's it's not on them to please you.





Players are not and because of that YOU will never be trusted in an Open pirate situation.
In a middle of a robbery i dont expect the person to trust me but what i will do is help them rethin
People block you because the last time they were interdicted they were murdered, not pirated.
There is always a reason behind a killing.
 
THAT'S how you took THAT post? You need to re-read that. I didn't say he or you murdered anyone.

Not inferring that in any of my posts.

I'm saying YOU get blocked because someone NOT doing what you do left a bad taste in someone's mouth. That's not YOUR fault but because of someone else outside of your group you will not be given a chance to do some fair pirating.



And because it's a videogame if you can be respectful to others and their playstyle you are going to get blocked. That's got nothing to do with what the game allows or punishes for.



Even more reason to believe that whomever is interdicting just wants to kill us and isn't wanting to engage in pirate roleplay.


It's not about what YOU are doing. It's about what the murderous CMDR's of the galaxy are doing and only really having a few seconds to decide if this interaction is going to be something you enjoy or not.



So I could be on my way back from a PvE bounty hunting mission/Haz Site/CZ whatever.. have no ammo, 1% left on my hull and because I'm in a combat ship no cargo racks with anything for you to steal and apparently having a KWS makes me fair game? Dude.. I'm going to take a hard pass on your idea of fun and just block you the first chance I get.



None of this is about you or your crew or what it is you guys do or do not do when you play.

All of this is about how you think you're being fun and interdicting someone for the full on Pirate-eee effect when the reality is that the guy you interdicted is just trying to land his rig so he can help the kids carve pumpkins or let the dog out and the last time he gave into someone who just wanted to take 10t of biowaste for giggles ended up sending him to the rebuy screen after taking the loot anyway.

No one has the time to play the way you want them to except for maybe a few. The rest are just going to see another jerk wanting to land an easy kill. Why should they keep having to put up with that for the off chance that you're not going to screw them the way they were screwed before?
No one can complain they got attacked by a player in the only mode which has the chance of bumping into cmdrs. Pirating is fun for me and my crew, it may not be fun for the victim, I have done this for 4 years on the game and im not prepared to stop now.
 
I play in open. I've only ever played in open. In doing so, I fully give my consent to be murdered.
I can count the times I've been killed and been genuinely annoyed about it on the fingers of one hand.
But that was still my choice; I was in occupied space in open. I don't care about etiquette or whether a murderer gives me a cuddle afterwards. If I die it's my fault.
 
The overall theme of the OPs post seems to be about the toxic reaction to pirates. Not a debate about open vs private vs solo.
So my opinion on pirates, is it is a perfectly acceptable play style. But remember that being a pirate is being toxic. You cant play a toxic pirate and expect not to have people react accordingly. Its like being robbed at gunpoint IRL and complaining that your victim is upset.
Yes its in the game, yes it is fine to roleplay as, but you cant be a criminal and then want everyone to react to you like your a saint. If you cant take the heat...
 
From last night, in SHINRARTA of all places lol. You can’t just AFK in a paper plane in the Elite system.

I mean, you can, but...

148894
 
Block the blocker i say.

Because its not fair that I, as a pirate, force my sense of fun on another cmdr because they dont understand that im not adhering to their sense of fun. All the while i'm engaged in full legal activities that is allowed in open while not taking in the considerations that the other cmdrs chose open mode yet refuses to accept the consequences of not selecting solo or pg.

See, I can write in upside down and inside out staircases and rooms too!
 
You can make the PvP discussion as long and as complicated as you want...but it's all down to simple ROE...rules of engagement. Besides the ROE, which only seem to be observed by RP pirates, ED sadly went down the road of completely removing the skill element of ship combat, replacing it with engineering metas and unbalanced the gameplay to the extent of creating a distinct divide between PvP and PvE game styles.

If a game supposedly supports both playstyles in one environment but favours one with a giant 'win' button, it's never going to work. I play another 'similar' space game where the win button of ridiculous engineering one shot meta builds doesn't exist...and lo and behold... as a mostly PvE player but with decent piloting skills I can either defend myself, escape or defeat a casual aggressor...or multiple aggressors... even in a trading ship.

Big ships have big shields...as they should... but can't be turned into a meta build solo piloted PvP god ship. The big ships carry cargo or do other specific roles. If they have turrets, you need human crew to man them. The fighters and multi-roles are single or double crewed and are smaller with resulting smaller shields and/or weapons...you want to take on big trade ships? You had better bring some mates with you or you'll be pewing your little lasers against a shield wall and hoping the pilot is Billy no-mates with nobody in those turrets to wipe your 'just for the lulz' grin out...risk versus reward.

All that's needed is a balance. As a majority PvE player who enjoys PvP when it arises in an open environment..all I need is a chance that I can either escape or evade an attack flying a base build ship without resorting to ridiculous pre-set and in built criteria to simply survive the encounter. If I play as the aggressor, I know that if I hone a few skills, pick the right weapons load-out, there's no god build PvP ships I don't have that even chance of not only surviving but of gaining a win given a bit of luck and some deft flying. If I get outflown and outmatched...I have no issue with it.
 
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Spot on. Sounds so easy and straightforward. Why oh why is ED lightyears away from such a simple and obvious concept...
Well... I have a suspicion that is both controversial and off-topic, but this is the short version:

At release time FDEV actually did see Elite Dangerous primarily as a combat and PvP centric game in which PvE elements would be used to regulate progression (earn credits for better ships and weapons, much like original Elite). Powerplay would provide and eternal source for conflict while Engineers would provide the means to eternally tinker with ship performance. A strong Crime & Punishment system doesn't fit such a combat arena. The main game loop would be: earn credits/materials mainly in PvE -> buy a better ship -> improve it with Engineers -> go into PvP combat -> get ideas about better ship/engineering -> rinse and repeat.

Of course fairly soon after release it became clear the majority of players wasn't that much into combat centric play let alone into PvP. But the main features were set and were probably too far into production. Only small changes could be made (primarily BGS enhancements) and we had to wait for the Beyond season to address non-combat play and Crime & Punishment. But they never managed to adjust combat balance which remains slanted towards PvP. Maybe the 2020 release will give us a better balanced game in that respect.
 
At release time FDEV actually did see Elite Dangerous primarily as a combat and PvP centric game in which PvE elements would be used to regulate progression

Not sure how they did see it back then, but what i'm sure is FD had no PVP gaming experience and it shows.

To me, ED looks like a solo PvE game, with multiplayer and PvP slapped over.
 
There’s some promotional material floating around that says something along the lines of ‘hunting other commanders’. Braben may even mention player on player activities (as well as some lofty ambitions) in one of his early videos.

I can’t argue that there’s not some serious balancing issues. Even the PvP crowd has their concerns, although it’s not always about the same thing.

The gap between unmodified and Fully engineered ships is immense, and comes up fairly often from some.

The PvP ‘buy in’ — not the cost of the expansion, but the time required to unlock everything— seems daunting at first, but can be knocked out in about four days(or less) of in-game time, with a little guidance from a player or the Internet.

My favorite excuse for not engineering is the ‘I have a busy life, and don’t have time’.

Yeah, but you just got back from an eight month exploration trip/mining opals for days on end. But no time, got it.

If you have time to play, you probably have time to unlock an engineer every once in awhile.

Anyways, without guidance, who knows how long it could take someone. I probably played a full year before I really started pushing to get them all unlocked, and I may have never figured it out without third party tools lol.

Things like the durability of ships, lack of reliable defense against missiles, the current plasma meta etc. are some balance issues I can think of PvP wise.
 
Only issue with that, is its difficult enough to get through some engineered ships, even with modified weapons. If we didn't have more powerful weapons, but still had today's defense numbers, it would be nearly impossible to ever finish a fight without running out of ammunition.

To split off from your idea, I feel that if engineers only applied to core modules from the beginning, maybe we'd be in a better place balance wise.

Bulkheads
Powerplant
Thrusters
FSD
Life Support
Distributor
Sensors


Defensively, you could modify bulkheads some, but overall we still end up with a high-performance ship, minus the ridiculous health pool and need for significantly more powerful weapons.
 
Can you give us any links or statements that could support this suspicion? Cause I'm playing the game since premium Beta and that's not the impression I got back in the days.
I've had this suspicion. for a long time now. It started somewhere during the Kickstarter period when David Braben in one of his videos talked about being able to steal an other commander's ship. To me that seemed a very annoying game mechanic. Imagine you planned for a relaxing evening of space trucking and your ship was stolen. It left me wondering what kind of role they had in mind for PvP.

Besides that I remember talk about hunting commanders as Cknarf mentioned already and there is a video of David Braben narrating ingame footage on a game show (probably beta phase), showing mainly combat, and where he signs off with "See you in combat!". There is another video somewhere where David Braben played as CMDR Braben and was attacked by player killers and he seemed to think it very funny. Then there was the official launch video that showed nothing but combat and -to my mind- created an atmosphere of tough guys in a gladiator competition (that video did a really bad job representing the game IMHO).

But it was Powerplay that really reinforced my suspicion. Why else introduce a mechanic that makes a player 'kill on sight' for 90% of the other players? Also I found that the game was released in a largely unfinished state (BGS froze completely within days of release) but that combat, including PvP was the most fleshed out part. Also it was quite obvious that PvP player groups got immediate attention if they complained about ships, weapons, shields, balance, networking performance, etc.

The introduction of the Engineers was the final piece of the puzzle for me. That made me see what the intended main game loop was (again: my suspicion, not a statement of fact).

Nevermind though, I completely ignored PvP in Elite (I played other, better PvP games for that) but I've had a great time with the game so far despite my suspicions about the original design of the game.
 
There’s some promotional material floating around that says something along the lines of ‘hunting other commanders’. Braben may even mention player on player activities (as well as some lofty ambitions) in one of his early videos.

I can’t argue that there’s not some serious balancing issues. Even the PvP crowd has their concerns, although it’s not always about the same thing.

The gap between unmodified and Fully engineered ships is immense, and comes up fairly often from some.

The PvP ‘buy in’ — not the cost of the expansion, but the time required to unlock everything— seems daunting at first, but can be knocked out in about four days(or less) of in-game time, with a little guidance from a player or the Internet.

My favorite excuse for not engineering is the ‘I have a busy life, and don’t have time’.

Yeah, but you just got back from an eight month exploration trip/mining opals for days on end. But no time, got it.

If you have time to play, you probably have time to unlock an engineer every once in awhile.

Anyways, without guidance, who knows how long it could take someone. I probably played a full year before I really started pushing to get them all unlocked, and I may have never figured it out without third party tools lol.

Things like the durability of ships, lack of reliable defense against missiles, the current plasma meta etc. are some balance issues I can think of PvP wise.
My beef with engineering...apart from the completely nonsensical initial and then concurrent implementations of it as a bolt on triple gated RNG mini-game...is that through it's implementation, FDev made it almost a compulsory requirement not only for PvP but also for PvE combat encounters by adding pseudo engineered NPC ships. It's almost like "We added it so you'll have to use it, like it or not." attitude.

Elite-Dangerous became Elite-Engineering with the rest of the already existing gameplay being reduced to being merely an add-on or supplemental to the engineering mini game. As for engineering making PvP encounters more survivable, that's a common misconception... a PvP build engineered ship is completely useless for mining or exploring...or for trading for that matter, consequently anyone not being a solely PvP focused player has no need for one..

So, even engineering in itself is double tiered. There's not only an immense difference between modified and unmodified ships but also between ships modified for PvP or PvE activities.
Quite simply, even a heavily modified PvE build ship is no match for a strictly PvP build. Respectively, for a PvE player modifying a decent multirole ship to suit a variety of in game tasks or career path meeting exactly the same ship fitted purely for PvP will last a matter of seconds in a head to head irrespective of the skill of either pilot.

The balance in occasional PvP ship combat should still be skill based, not measured by how many hours is spent farming materials to engineer a ship fit for combat by the current standards...that's a strictly PvP requirement and shouldn't be the case in a mixed PvE/PvP environment.
 
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Ive had my first xboxone pvp incounter and i will start be saying... Those i fought have no honor. They attemped to gank my vette 3v1.(cutter, FDL, and a vulture.) I was smart and jumpped out of system before they could yank me.

I got a friend, went back into system and the two of us got away with killing the vulture. Afterwards, they tracked us across four systems just to blockade us in a station while harassing us to come out and fight, with a cutter constantly ramming us while we moved out of the no fire zone... We had rebuy so figured "why not? " once we engaged, we found out their cutter and FDL has report crimes on... Neither of us had our crimes on.

sigh

Gankers with report crimes on....


They said they forgot to turn it off but the vulture didnt have crimes on so their claims are suspect.

After tracking a group across multiple systems, the blockade, the ramming to get our shields down before the second fight, the crimes on... If THIS is how people on xboxone pvp... Theres a serious lack of honor.
 
Gankers with report crimes on....

Sounds an awful lot like our dear friends over at GANC lol. Encountered that a few times the past week. They tend to flex on people they know they can beat, but when it’s go time, they either eat rebuys(Crimes on or not) or are nowhere to be found. While some of them seem better to interact with than others, I would not use them to judge the PvP community as a whole.

Some of the ‘lesser’ IED fellows will turn crimes on too, but the vets won’t normally. They’re supposed to be cops, so I guess it makes more sense for them. Still odd to be interdictded, then see your attacker engage crimes before the fight starts lol.

If you want some proper PVP action with no nonsense, you’ll find many of them in my server, if discord is your thing.

Plenty of PvP vets in there from established factions, as well as some of the more recent ones. No crimes, no staton games, and no flexing unless you ask for it.
 
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