You either do something or you do not do that thing.
Your Character Is Not A Grizzled, Hard-Up Miner: They Are Filthy Rich (SHOCKING)
- Thread starter RELSPI
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You do make an interesting observation, OP. I think every space game suffers from this problem. To keep the game feeling real, the cost of purchasing ships soon runs into the tens of millions. But that creates the problem of having to make sure that players, especially new players, can earn that many credits quickly (with ridiculously large mission payouts) so as to be able to afford those ships to keep the game interesting. To make matters worse, most space games (all?) lack any sort of corresponding real world overhead, such as progressive taxation, cost of living expenses (food, housing, medical care), realistic ship maintenance costs (berthing, registrations, licensing, insurance costs, etc.), not to mention the discretionary spending we make on our various hobbies (<cough>video games<cough>). Hence, we get.runaway monetary inflation on a galactic scale were everyone is a millionaire. If in the real world we had so few expenses, we probably would all be running around with millions in the bank, too. The only real solution would be to implement all those real world costs into the game as well. That probably could be easily done - e.g. every mission payout gets cut by a certain percentage for taxes; each time you dock you have to pay a berthing fee; if you want to stay off ship you have to rent a room; and so on - but I don't think the average player would want to struggle for years just to afford a slightly better ship. Or maybe they would. It would make for an interesting "ironman mode." It would be an...uh...interesting experience to log into the game one day and find that your ship, the one that only had a few loan payments left, had been seized for non-payment of taxes. 
Could you imagine the so-called forum salt then?!
Having said all of that, Elite could use with a bunch more voluntary money sinks. Base building would fit that nicely.
Could you imagine the so-called forum salt then?! Having said all of that, Elite could use with a bunch more voluntary money sinks. Base building would fit that nicely.
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I'd honestly be fine if the game didn't even have insurance rebuys as a thing, losing ships and modules, engineered ones included, but then I prefer playing as a survivalist anyway.
Live time based maintenance upkeep fees would be more than a bit unwelcome though, even for me. Though I have to admit it would make things rather interesting if they put a bounty on my head for it.
Good luck repossessing this...
Live time based maintenance upkeep fees would be more than a bit unwelcome though, even for me. Though I have to admit it would make things rather interesting if they put a bounty on my head for it.
Good luck repossessing this...
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This is perhaps stretching the context a bit too far here, but sometimes I just can't help myself...
Not directed at anyone in particular, and comically self-deprecating as much as anything else.
Cheers. o7
You do make an interesting observation, OP. I think every space game suffers from this problem. To keep the game feeling real, the cost of purchasing ships soon runs into the tens of millions. But that creates the problem of having to make sure that players, especially new players, can earn that many credits quickly with ridiculously large mission payouts so as to be able to afford those ships to keep the game interesting. To make matters worse, most space games (all?) lack any sort of corresponding real world overhead, such as progressive taxation, cost of living expenses (food, housing, medical care), realistic ship maintenance costs (berthing, registrations, licensing, insurance costs, etc.), not to mention the discretionary spending we make on our various hobbies (<cough>video games<cough>). Hence, we get.runaway monetary inflation on a galactic scale were everyone is a millionaire. If in the real world we had so few expenses, we probably would all be running around with millions in the bank, too. The only real solution would be to implement all those real world costs into the game as well. That probably could be easily done - e.g. every mission payout gets cut by a certain percentage for taxes; each time you dock you have to pay a berthing fee; if you want to stay off ship you have to rent a room; and so on - but I don't think the average player would want to struggle for years just to afford a slightly better ship. Or maybe they would. It would make for an interesting "ironman mode." It would be an...uh...interesting experience to log into the game one day and find that your ship, the one that only a few loan payments left, had been seized for non-payment of taxes.
Having said all of that, Elite could use with a bunch more voluntary money sinks. Base building would fit that nicely.
The Impression I always got was
We started, at least back around 1.0, with a Sidewinder ( and a single fixed pulse laser) and 100 Credits
That 100 Credits was all the money we had saved to our name until the Mysterious Benefactor had provided the Sidey
This Sidewinder was worth a life time of earnings to our character before they had a Pilots licence, and are faced with the immediate issue of having a huge asset and oppertunity, but at the same time a huge liability and expense, as suddenly the berthing fees and fuel costs are more than the money you have in your bank account, let alone service and repair costs, and bio waste trading was all one could afford.
Akin to waking up one day to find someone has gifted you one of these to make your fortune with.
Earning enough to cover costs was the first win, and then being able to afford that second pulse laser a milestone.
At least that is my impression and how I run my Pen and Paper RPGs
Now a new Cmdr starts with 10,000 Credits, a ship with two gimballed pulse lasers, a simple travel from A to B intro mission that pays 100,000 Credits and factions that regularly offer missions that are delivery a courier package with no damage to a system one jump away where they already have a presence and their own ships, that will pay the price of three new Sidewinders that could do the same trip.
Now that is a game-play compromise and I am not saying it is bad, or good, just simply that the CR numbers presented in the current game in no way reflect the lore that has been presented at the world the characters live in, nor the pre 1.0 balances where ships did actually pay docking fees in the form a fuel levy on larger ships, payouts where much smaller & running costs maintenance costs where higher.
Now that you mentioned it, I always wondered why we don't pay berthing fees at docks.
And also, whatever happened to that annual maintenance for your ship?
You know, the one that if you skipped, would cause your ship to explode randomly the next time you flew it out the airlock.....
And also, whatever happened to that annual maintenance for your ship?
You know, the one that if you skipped, would cause your ship to explode randomly the next time you flew it out the airlock.....
I have a whole backstory for my Commander for all of this as well, but I won't bore you with the details. I'm just mentioning it to say that contextual immersion in the game is a high priority for how I choose to approach and play it. The meta is only really useful toward that end, though it does at times unfortunately seem self-contradictory.
If others just want to advance through the meta though with little care for context and immersion, I guess that's their prerogative, and Frontier seem to be facilitating that play style as well. It's only really an issue for me when it becomes a hindrance to how I'd care to play.
YMMV
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It was already bad before the new mining. I had to struggle to not get filthy rich. Unfortunately when I get back from my exploration trip, I am likely to be a billionaire.
I would have preferred it if credits where difficult to come by or easy to loose. For me what makes games like these fun is the struggle to survive. But it's unfortunately too easy to survive.
We should be paying for ship storage, we should be paying for module storage. We should have to pay to dock. The bigger the ship, the more you pay.
Once you have you ship decked out there is nothing that you can loose money on. It's all money making after that, apart from ship destruction, but even that isn't that expensize.
I think FDev messed up regarding that part of the game.
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I agree that it could have been better, at least for how I care to play, taking into account that what's better can be a rather subjective thing, of course.
I'd be fine with one-off fees for things (though not time compounded upkeep penalties, like if someone goes away from the game for a month or takes a trip out to Beagle Point), and as mentioned before, not having insurance rebuys, but that's just me.
...
I'm not sure if it's official lore, but I've heard that these sort of service costs may already be built into our credit earnings, and that various facilities are rewarded by having access to the Pilots Federation monopoly and being serviced by their Elite (or otherwise) Commanders.
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Well one way is to introduce berthing charges NOW at all stations.
1000 cr for small ships
10000 for medium
50000 for large.
Treat it like a car park where you pay per-entry charges.
But exempt the Newbie sector. So they can get their feet off the ground at least.
That would certainly help.
When I first learned how to BH (about 3 ago) I was intrigued in equal measures as to how the game mechanic worked.
On one hand I could engage in combat and make some actual money, riches unheard of to my then CMDR who’d only been able to do basic trading and courier missions
On the other I couldn’t quite understand how all these ships (and their delicious bounties) just seemed to congregate in one specific spot for you to engage with, in the vastness of space. Also, that there were police who could do much of the shooting for you.
It felt like shooting fish in a barrel - albeit a lucrative barrel.
Feels like bounty hunting should still be one of the more lucrative activities, just needs to be less localised. These should be more ‘dangerous combat mission’ and less ‘fish shoot’.
On one hand I could engage in combat and make some actual money, riches unheard of to my then CMDR who’d only been able to do basic trading and courier missions
On the other I couldn’t quite understand how all these ships (and their delicious bounties) just seemed to congregate in one specific spot for you to engage with, in the vastness of space. Also, that there were police who could do much of the shooting for you.
It felt like shooting fish in a barrel - albeit a lucrative barrel.
Feels like bounty hunting should still be one of the more lucrative activities, just needs to be less localised. These should be more ‘dangerous combat mission’ and less ‘fish shoot’.
Poor, smelly and grizzled? Meh, I'll pass o7.
My collection of pretties are all docked at a lush, fountain laden Ocellus. I have a ranked up little hottie sizzling next to me and plenty of funds in the stash.
Just recently invested in an alien fighter decked, whale tailed, luxury space RV and we're ready to head out into the black.
While they're stocking up Belladonna, I think Roze and I will slip into the Jacuzzi with a few bottles of legal drugs.
Need to loosen up a bit after all that hard work.
Did I mention the pool on each deck?
Fly loaded CMDRs!
X
My collection of pretties are all docked at a lush, fountain laden Ocellus. I have a ranked up little hottie sizzling next to me and plenty of funds in the stash.
Just recently invested in an alien fighter decked, whale tailed, luxury space RV and we're ready to head out into the black.
While they're stocking up Belladonna, I think Roze and I will slip into the Jacuzzi with a few bottles of legal drugs.
Need to loosen up a bit after all that hard work.
Did I mention the pool on each deck?
Fly loaded CMDRs!
X
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I think X does better in that regard with the ability to build stations and stuff.
ED feels artificially limited one you hit 1B+ credits. And it's not that "hard" (i.e. grindy in ED parlance) to get there.
Ship prices feel artificially inflated for no good reason. Very immersion breaking.
TBH, it's not a bad thing. While the first steps where really good in 1.0 in terms of satisfying progression (i.e. from sidey to ASP),
it got really grindy past the ASP (IMO). I much prefer the new system where the medium ships are not gated behind ungodly amount of AB
trade grind. (because it was the only profitable activity back then, BH payouts was peanuts back then)
ED feels artificially limited one you hit 1B+ credits. And it's not that "hard" (i.e. grindy in ED parlance) to get there.
Ship prices feel artificially inflated for no good reason. Very immersion breaking.
TBH, it's not a bad thing. While the first steps where really good in 1.0 in terms of satisfying progression (i.e. from sidey to ASP),
it got really grindy past the ASP (IMO). I much prefer the new system where the medium ships are not gated behind ungodly amount of AB
trade grind. (because it was the only profitable activity back then, BH payouts was peanuts back then)
I would have settled for paint balls to tag ships Indian Brave style and make it so they can't see out of the canopy. Just go in supercruise for an hour or two to sand blast it off.
Maybe they are all in the 2020 release.
Have the charges vary depending on things like station size and who runs it and if you want to get serious about it have a time in dock based charge on stations in high population areas.
And really hike up the fee for anonymous access because you're not waving your Pilot's License around and they treat you like any other random pleb.