PvP You're probably going to say "duh, it's obvious", but I think I get it now. (PvP dislike)

I was just reading the FFF, where someone's post struck me.

It said something along the lines of that they don't want to spend time with people who want to fight and destroy them in-game, however, they are happy to have "positive" encounters.

The thing is I can't help but think that "positive" means they have a chance of winning.

Do you guys think this is the cause of the PvP/E divide? People just want to "win" every time, and if they can't for whatever reason then they get upset? Because I'm not sure that's how competitive play works...
 
I was just reading the FFF, where someone's post struck me.

It said something along the lines of that they don't want to spend time with people who want to fight and destroy them in-game, however, they are happy to have "positive" encounters.

The thing is I can't help but think that "positive" means they have a chance of winning.

Do you guys think this is the cause of the PvP/E divide? People just want to "win" every time, and if they can't for whatever reason then they get upset? Because I'm not sure that's how competitive play works...
"Positive" is such a vague term that it probably means a lot of things including your assumption. So... yes for some people, no for the rest.
 
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The only negative encounters I have are with people who try to insult me as a real-life player/person (when in doubt I assume trash talk is directed at my CMDR, but some of it obviously is not), or who cheat, as both blatantly break the fourth wall.

All that's really required for a PvP encounter to be positive is for the players behind the CMDRs involved to follow the rules of the game.
 
I tend to believe "Positive" means alot of different things for different Players.
For most, it probably isn't even about winning.

For me personally, "Positive" is already satisfied by "every type of interaction that isn't the usual, same-old boring 'Silent Bob' Ganker" trying to advertise salt farming for a Youtube channel.

The cause of the PvP/PvE divide is a combination of many different Factors :
- mechanical and near-digital split between "PvP Build" and "not a PvP Build" ships (when it comes to positively engaging another Player in combat)
- Engineers
- lack of reliable C&P
- history of the Game catering for and attracting lulz folks/Ganker/Griefer archetypes that have long been banned or restricted by other means from other MMO games (due to being unhealthy for the Game itself if left uncontained)
- the occasional Exploits/Cheats/Hacks
- fundamental difference between preferred Playstyles (Co-Op vs. PvP)
- lack of reasonable and realistic (simulatory) placement of PvP within the ELITE Universe and its rules
- imbalancing baked into the PvP segment due to above factors, incl. worst-case scenarios where an Explorer can lose upto a full year of work (0 gain, 100% loss) for the inconsequential 1 Minute of fun of an Attacker
- (plus whatever individual factors deemed important by any individual Player)

In a sense, one could compare it like that :
- some people like 1st Person shooters
- some people like Flight Simulators
- some people like Survival Games
- some people like Puzzles
- some people like Adventures

Question : Which people are right/correct, which are wrong?
Answer : none of course. All are valid choices and there is no "right or wrong" when it comes to these personal preferences.

PS.
I do occasionally engage in "Friendly PvP" just for fun, but that's mainly to see how my Ships (non-Meta) hold up and verify/recheck some mechanics and tactics.
 
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You guys are right, I concede. "Positive" is very subjective.

I no doubt think there are some, not putting a number on how many, who do see winning as the only acceptable result. I imagine these types make up a significant portion of combat loggers.
 
I think that if someone willingly plays in Open they tacitly understand that PvP combat and the chance to lose your ship is always a possibility (even with highwake or using the 15 second timer). The outcome is beside the point; it's the encounter between two or more players itself that makes the game"positive".

I'd provide an Elite example but I've taken my Elite videos off my channel and replaced them with Playerunknown's Battlegrounds. But, if you're interested, here's me having a "positive" encounter with a Twitch streamer (who didn't find it positive, but hey... sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ0mHHEeDcU
 
I don't care how somebody plays because it's just a video game but cheating and trash talking are the two things I don't like. To me trash talking means you're a kid and I don't want to deal with kids. Pretty much why I don't play FPSs anymore. Server full of kids isn't my idea of fun. I know this isn't the same kind of game but still.
 
I was just reading the FFF, where someone's post struck me.

It said something along the lines of that they don't want to spend time with people who want to fight and destroy them in-game, however, they are happy to have "positive" encounters.

The thing is I can't help but think that "positive" means they have a chance of winning.

Do you guys think this is the cause of the PvP/E divide? People just want to "win" every time, and if they can't for whatever reason then they get upset? Because I'm not sure that's how competitive play works...
It is more a PvE only vs Open minded players than anything else. ;)
 
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I was just reading the FFF, where someone's post struck me.

It said something along the lines of that they don't want to spend time with people who want to fight and destroy them in-game, however, they are happy to have "positive" encounters.

The thing is I can't help but think that "positive" means they have a chance of winning.

Do you guys think this is the cause of the PvP/E divide? People just want to "win" every time, and if they can't for whatever reason then they get upset? Because I'm not sure that's how competitive play works...
Sorry for the copy-pasta, but... As I wrote previously, what upsets many players is not the fact itself of being ganked, it's being ganked without an in-game reason.

There are people who fly around in Open treating each instance as an FPS map - expecting to attack and be attacked, and projecting their own concept of fairness in it. Which makes sense if you are playing Quake, less sense if you are playing an MMORPG where asymmetric warfare exists due to background and settings.

I used to play PvE for my first two years, and absolutely loathed unilateral PvP; I still do despise ganking done for the lulz, but now I certainly enjoy random PvP with people that are okay with it.
 
The only negative encounters I have are with people who try to insult me as a real-life player/person (when in doubt I assume trash talk is directed at my CMDR, but some of it obviously is not), or who cheat, as both blatantly break the fourth wall.

All that's really required for a PvP encounter to be positive is for the players behind the CMDRs involved to follow the rules of the game.
Same.
 
I was just reading the FFF, where someone's post struck me.

It said something along the lines of that they don't want to spend time with people who want to fight and destroy them in-game, however, they are happy to have "positive" encounters.

The thing is I can't help but think that "positive" means they have a chance of winning.

Do you guys think this is the cause of the PvP/E divide? People just want to "win" every time, and if they can't for whatever reason then they get upset? Because I'm not sure that's how competitive play works...
Ships in ED are balanced for players to win every time. Player ships can be outfitted to handle large numbers of NPC opponents, even if the player isn't better than the NPCs.
For a player to be safe in the event of an NPC interdiction, it takes very little engineering. A small bump shield and dirty drives, will keep you safe in all situations.

My 'do it all' Asp, has a paper thin class-3 bi-weave. It has never lost more than a ring to an NPC. In a PvP event, it would be a death trap.
I still fly it in Open, because the chance of meeting a hostile player is close to zero. If I do run it to one, I just Hi-wake before they get a chance to interdict.

Basically there is no risk and no game play.

If I'm in the mood to do a bit more interaction, I might take the Clipper. It's fast and strong enough to escape players and can easily do low-wake escapes multiple times, to get to a station. If it's not a pro PvPer that attacks, it can even put up a fight.
This is all good in theory, but it hardly ever happens. I end up with 20ly less jump range and the same experience as in the Asp.

The game teaches me to that it's better to go for the paper ship. It's more efficient and convenient.

If the game taught me to fly a decent build and made sure that if I did skill would decide the outcome of a confrontation, things would be more interesting in the galaxy.
 
I tend to believe "Positive" means alot of different things for different Players.
For most, it probably isn't even about winning.

For me personally, "Positive" is already satisfied by "every type of interaction that isn't the usual, same-old boring 'Silent Bob' Ganker" trying to advertise salt farming for a Youtube channel.

The cause of the PvP/PvE divide is a combination of many different Factors :
- mechanical and near-digital split between "PvP Build" and "not a PvP Build" ships (when it comes to positively engaging another Player in combat)
- Engineers
- lack of reliable C&P
- history of the Game catering for and attracting lulz folks/Ganker/Griefer archetypes that have long been banned or restricted by other means from other MMO games (due to being unhealthy for the Game itself if left uncontained)
- the occasional Exploits/Cheats/Hacks
- fundamental difference between preferred Playstyles (Co-Op vs. PvP)
- lack of reasonable and realistic (simulatory) placement of PvP within the ELITE Universe and its rules
- imbalancing baked into the PvP segment due to above factors, incl. worst-case scenarios where an Explorer can lose upto a full year of work (0 gain, 100% loss) for the inconsequential 1 Minute of fun of an Attacker
- (plus whatever individual factors deemed important by any individual Player)

In a sense, one could compare it like that :
- some people like 1st Person shooters
- some people like Flight Simulators
- some people like Survival Games
- some people like Puzzles
- some people like Adventures

Question : Which people are right/correct, which are wrong?
Answer : none of course. All are valid choices and there is no "right or wrong" when it comes to these personal preferences.

PS.
I do occasionally engage in "Friendly PvP" just for fun, but that's mainly to see how my Ships (non-Meta) hold up and verify/recheck some mechanics and tactics.
^^^

This, especially the "'Silent Bob' Ganker" treatment. I don't expect much, but if you're going to interrupt my play session, the least you could do is acknowledge I'm a human being by communicating your intent to me. Given that its fairly trivial to set up a macro to send a text message, that shouldn't be a huge task. But most "spontaneous content providers" can't even be bothered to do that much.

As the old saying goes, you only get one chance to make a first impression. Make it a good one.

That being said, it would be nice to at least have the illusion that choosing "fight" in a "fight or flight" situation is an option, but Elite isn't designed that way. Too much of a power gap between even combat and non-combat ships, let alone PvP and non-PvP ships.

In nearly 25 years of online gaming, I've become convinced that its easy to make a fun PvP game or a fun PvE game, but its extremely difficult to make a fun PvE game that also includes fun "freeform" PvP.
 
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I purposely set my standard kind of low. I approach PvP as if "I'm dead already." If any other result happens, it's a good thing. This doesn't mean I won't fight to the best of my ability and knowledge either. It really gets salt, pride, and other preconceptions out of my way. I can sit back and have a good fight, win or lose. My only regret when I lose, is that I didn't give my opponent a worthy challenge. I can honestly say, the last time I lost, my response was "LOL." Enjoy the PvP fights CMDRs. They really can and do, enrich the game experience when you simply let them.

Rooks o7
 
PvP doesn't actually imply killing each others characters (or here, ships). It just imply a contest that may have a winner. The propensity of CoD-style games have made it about killing others, and there is not much in the game to change that. Although the recent changes to C&P are the first steps to fix that.

:D S
 
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Racing is PvP as well, without killing. Would be nice if there were more in-game support for it, like a Racing screen where you can sign up, and courses plotted with some form of beacons.
 
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