It’ll be a problem because a lot of people like how the flight mechanics work. No offence here, but you can’t expect the way it’s designed to work, and which a lot of people like, to be changed just because you think it’s odd.
Zero throttle but still thrusting?
- Thread starter bladebss
- Start date
That is the specific difference between FA OFF and FA ON.
If you are FA ON, then the ship will automagically employ thrusters to assist you in what it THINKS you are trying to do. Even if you throttle down to zero, the ship will STILL use thrusters (and even the main engines). That, in fact, is exactly how the ship is ultimately brought to a stop AFTER you set your throttle to zero with FA ON (it uses reverse thrust to stop you).
FA ON is working EXACTLY how it was designed and it is doing EXACTLY what you should expect.
If you want true "space dynamics" then you should obviously be using FA OFF. It sounds like you are expecting something between FA ON and FA OFF...
If you are FA ON, then the ship will automagically employ thrusters to assist you in what it THINKS you are trying to do. Even if you throttle down to zero, the ship will STILL use thrusters (and even the main engines). That, in fact, is exactly how the ship is ultimately brought to a stop AFTER you set your throttle to zero with FA ON (it uses reverse thrust to stop you).
FA ON is working EXACTLY how it was designed and it is doing EXACTLY what you should expect.
If you want true "space dynamics" then you should obviously be using FA OFF. It sounds like you are expecting something between FA ON and FA OFF...
Thats not what im getting at. Its not just bringing me to a stop, its accelerating me in a new direction with my throttle at zero.
From the replies on this thread i doubt any one would notice
Increase the "dead zone" adjustment of your thruster Controls and joystick (x/y) settings. It can happen with the main joystick and/or thrusters too, if your joystick does not center perfectly you will still get control inputs when you center the stick. I use a HOTAS with main joystick for attitude control, thumb-sticks for the thruster controls and had this problem because the thumb-sticks were not centering perfectly when released, causing thrust inputs. Same with my throttle, thought the throttle was messed up, I would zero the throttle and the ship would accelerate forward. Turned out to be a thrust control with a too-small dead zone giving forward thrust input when centered.
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So lets talk acceleration vs velocity. Are you actually gaining speed as the ship turns or just changing direction? I would expect FA ON to be able to change your direction as it brings the ship to a stop. If you are also gaining speed (which I've never noticed) then its likely just "left over" thrust vector as the ship continues to rotate. In any case, its all hypothetically controlled, and compensated for, by your shipboard computer trying to "guess" what exactly your overall intentions are....
This is space, not pavement.
Maybe you should equip the new "Space Anchor" module?
FA OFF with a boost turn is as close as you will get.
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It is accelerateing towards the station. The overall speed of my ship is slowing but as i pitch, the ship gains speed in the new direction ot wasnt previously moving in, and i have not set the throttle to tell it to do so. It should slow to a stop and not change direction as i pitch. And i should just turn to look at the station as i fly past it and stop.
You hit on it perfectly; the game doesn't model newtonian physics.
With FA in "most ships" it models more like a car on rails. Or a typical arcadey fighter plane game.
With FA off it uses a model that sort of models momentum, but not really because it ignores mass.
Well. Isn't 'fa on' this space anchor you speak of.
No it shouldn't. You misunderstand how FA is supposed to work. You ship SHOULD continue to turn as it is being brought to a stop.
Basically, FA ON is programmed like a flight simulator. You ship will continue to FLY whatever path you point it to as long as it is still moving (or drifting). Planes will still fly even if you turn off the engine. Ultimately an airplane will continue to "fly" until it experiences an aerodynamic stall (at which point it falls out of the sky). Out in space, our ships don't have aerodynamic stalls, so they continue to "FLY" until they come to a stop. FA ON = Flight Simulator Mode.. FA OFF = Spaceship Mode. Its that simple.
If you want to ROTATE without TURNING then you need to run FA OFF.
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^This.
Basically with FA on, fdev made a model that would be instantly recognizable to anyone playing arcade plane games. In essence if you zero the throttle you still have momentum, but as you pitch your magic space wings grip the magic space air, generate a force, and allow you to turn in an arc, decelerating as you go.
Which is completely unrealistic.
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I hear you, but do you think this makes sence, even within the flight model given its not the case for lateral thrust.
And that this same effect we get with zero throttle could be achived buy using the throttle to define the speed we want to go as we turn/decelerate. So if it were to be changed so that it made sence with zero throttle that the magic space wings didnt grip the magic space air that it would be nothing but a good thing and add more dynaics and logical consistency to the model
Hmmm not sure if it would improve the experience or not to be honest. It feels "familiar" right now...
Um, no...
I'm an IFR Certified Commercial Pilot. I have my own airplane (Cirrus SR22). If I shut down my engine while in flight, my REAL wings (and other flight surfaces) will continue to control the direction of my aircraft (until the aircraft stalls and stops "flying"). Please explain to me why you think "it makes more sense" for "MAGIC space wings" to behave any different.
It would also be "nice" if the flight model dropped a space anchor, boosted all your shields, dropped some chaff, popped a heat sink, and fired all your weapons as it pivoted around the target following you - but that's not how the FLIGHT MODEL works.
You asked your question and folks responded: FA ON = Airplane Flight Simulator, FA OFF = Spaceship simulator.
The flight models are perfectly consistent with the above analogy. They are IMPLEMENTED pretty well. If you are unhappy how the flight models are DESIGNED, then that is a different issue.
Personally, I'm happy with their consistency so I'll let you get on with whatever your trying to campaign for...
If you are unhappy with "magic space wings" then just fly FA OFF - its much more realistic anyway! (You still won't get your "Space Anchor" though...)
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What the OP describes has nothing to do with the few limitations to the way the game models newtonian physics.
Right, have looked at the video, let's sort this out. This is working as designed.
Let's talk straight lines to start with. In FA on, you don't directly control throttle, at least not in the sense of the thrusters. You set a desired speed. FA takes care of that, by applying front and back thrust. If you set it to a desired speed above your current speed, FA applies forward thrust until the desired speed is reached. If you set it to a desired speed below your current speed, FA applies a reverse thrust until your desired speed is reached. In the video, you haven't set the throttle to zero, you've set your desired speed to zero. FA off is applying thrusters to reduce your speed. You can see your speed reducing after you've set the desired speed to zero. This is because you will carry on at the same speed unless a force is applied. FA uses the thrusters to apply that force.
So that's one part of FA.
Now let's cover three dimension and turning. As well as matching your desired speed, FA is also designed to match your current speed with your direction. This is to make your ship handle more like a plane. So, as you use your directional controls, FA converts that into a rotation of the ship and a directional thrust, in order to try and maintain a matched speed and direction. It can't always do that completely, hence drift, which is to say that the ship's direction of movement lags behind it's orientation.
So in your video, all is working as it should. You fly towards the structure. You then select a desired velocity of zero. FA starts reducing your speed. You then use your directional controls. FA then does both things discussed above, to whit, it applies thrust to reduce your current speed to the desired speed, and it also applies thrust to match your current speed with your orientation.
What you seem to be asking for is for FA not to match your speed to your orientation. This however is core to the flight model. While it might make more sense to you, it doesn't make more sense in general, as FA is there to give the style of flying in question. And changing it would be a big change which would impact on everyone who ever flys with FA on.
Ok I'm not sure if you're being serious or not?!
For the sake of brevity, the game only takes a shot at loosely modeling a small element of Newton's laws when you are FA off. And I do mean small.
It loosely models behaviour of a moving mass in a vacuum, ignoring all other forces acting upon it.
It completely ignores gravity, orbital velocity, reaction mass, mass of the object, all of which are parts of newtonian physics.
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