Horizon holdouts need the new Python MK2 availability to be made perfectly clear

[Agony_Aunt]

This is no excuse
if they can run Live 40 they can run Odyssey too - maybe, they wont be getting good fps in a CZ but in space the things are the same.
So buying Odyssey for ships is still okish



GeForce Now


Edit: but why bring consoles into this? my post was quoting someone that said they have no reason to buy Odyssey. Nothing related to not being able to run Odyssey, which is bollox since in space its the same with Live 40 nor related to consoles which will never get the ships since they're on Legacy and done for 2+ years already.

1) No excuse to not buy a game that runs like rubbish on the computer you own? Why should they pay for content they won't be able to enjoy?

2) Oh, pay a subscription service to play a PC DLC on console? Yes, i'm sure people would like to do that just to play a game they already own on console but were locked out from the DLC when the devs dropped support for it.

I'm stunned you went down that road.

The ship will be there and buyable with in-game money on Odyssey, but FD are deliberately making Legacy players pay real world money for it. And you're defending that?

 

[Northpin]

I didn't get Odyssey because it is a scam and waste of money that offers nothing of value to me. Why would I need to spend money to get ARX to be able to buy a ship with ingame credits as opposed to any other ship in the game?

Well, now Odyssey offers something of value to you - Ships.
You could buy Odyssey to have access to Python Mk2 and the rest of the ships
Or you can keep limiting yourself to the base game and buy ships for Arx - it may be cheaper for just one ship, but they plan to release 4 ships, possible more, which means it's cheaper to just get Odyssey.

this is the initial discussion, to which you added

Not everyone limits themselves to the base game through choice.

Some people on PC can't afford the upgrades to make Odyssey run normally.

Some people are on console, which can't have Odyssey.

Perhaps think about that.

my response (even tho the poster you quoted limited them to base game by choice)

This is no excuse
if they can run Live 40 they can run Odyssey too - maybe, they wont be getting good fps in a CZ but in space the things are the same.
So buying Odyssey for ships is still okish

GeForce Now


Edit: but why bring consoles into this? my post was quoting someone that said they have no reason to buy Odyssey. Nothing related to not being able to run Odyssey, which is bollox since in space its the same with Live 40 nor related to consoles which will never get the ships since they're on Legacy and done for 2+ years already.

and then

1) No excuse to not buy a game that runs like rubbish on the computer you own? Why should they pay for content they won't be able to enjoy?

2) Oh, pay a subscription service to play a PC DLC on console? Yes, i'm sure people would like to do that just to play a game they already own on console but were locked out from the DLC when the devs dropped support for it.

I'm stunned you went down that road.

The ship will be there and buyable with in-game money on Odyssey, but FD are deliberately making Legacy players pay real world money for it. And you're defending that?

So, please, re-read the discussion you got into, and then tell me what are you on to?


1) My exchange was not about being able to run Odyssey or not - was about reasons to buy Odyssey, even if you never engage the on-foot content.
And that reason is New Ships

So, if they want new ships, they either buy Odyssey or - a new option - they buy ships from store while still playing Live40
Back then when Horizons launched, the base game players didnt have this option, if they wanted new ships they had to buy Horizons.

2) Legacy and consoles have no place here.
Game on consoles is dead and is as dead for PC people with 10 years old computers that cannot run Live40 (however, they can still run Legacy which is the game the purchased many year ago)
That's no fault of FDev that someone out there cannot afford a new-ish gaming computer or the internet costs or the electricity bill. Blunt, i know.

Anyway, even if you cannot shell out 2k for a new gaming computer, you can still play Odyssey, even on a Chromebook, for 10€ per month - through Geforce Now
There are options.

... FD are deliberately making Legacy players pay real world money for it. And you're defending that?

Again, what are you on to? It must be really good...
FD is not making anyone to do anything. Legacy players can still play the game they payed for, 10 years ago.

And if Legacy players have gaming computers from the last 6 years, they can enjoy Live40 too - for free- no need to buy Odyssey if they have no reason to buy it.
But, again, if they want new Ships (there is your reason) they can buy Odyssey (the cheaper and wiser choice), or they can buy the ships from the store.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

this is the initial discussion, to which you added



my response (even tho the poster o quoted limited them to base game by choice)




and then




So, please, re-read the discussion you got into, and then tell me what are you on to?


1) My exchange was not about being able to run Odyssey or not - was about reasons to buy Odyssey, even if you never engage the on-foot content.
And that reason is New Ships

So, if they want new ships, they either buy Odyssey or - a new option - they buy ships from store while still playing Live40
Back then when Horizons launched, the base game players didnt have this option, if they wanted new ships they had to buy Horizons.

2) Legacy and consoles have no place here.
Game on consoles is dead and is as dead for PC people with 10 years old computers that cannot run Live40 (however, they can still run Legacy which is the game the purchased many year ago)
That's no fault of FDev that someone out there cannot afford a new-ish gaming computer or the internet costs or the electricity bill. Blunt, i know.

Anyway, even if you cannot shell out 2k for a new gaming computer, you can still play Odyssey, even on a Chromebook, for 10€ per month - through Geforce Now
There are options.



Again, what are you on to? It must be really good...
FD is not making anyone to do anything. Legacy players can still play the game they payed for, 10 years ago.

And if Legacy players have gaming computers from the last 6 years, they can enjoy Live40 too - for free- no need to buy Odyssey if they have no reason to buy it.
But, again, if they want new Ships (there is your reason) they can buy Odyssey (the cheaper and wiser choice), or they can buy the ships from the store.

I was adding my point of view on why some people might not be willing or able to buy/play Odyssey. Just because someone didn't buy Odyssey for a different reason is irrelevant.

You're basically saying to those people "Sucks to be you, PC Master Race FTW, buy a better computer you poor person if you don't want to pay for the Python Mk2 with real money."

Is quite simple, the Python Mk2 will be in Legacy. People who give FD money can have it, people who don't, can't (well, unless they save up a ton of ARX), whereas in Odyssey it will be available for in-game credits.

Why did FD do this to Legacy players? Why are you supporting it? I can't fathom why anyone would support this. This isn't even about whether ships should be available for ARX, its about discriminating against a portion of the playerbase for no apparent reason.

 

[CMDR Daiyus]

Unless Odyssey goes on sale for $5 or less, I'm not getting it.

And this right here is the problem. As much as we all would love to pay £40 for a complete game and then have infinite support and updates/overhauls for decades, that's just not how these things work. You haven't bought the latest DLC, that's fine, but don't expect them to keep handing out their new work for nothing. Either support the game, and buy the ship/DLC, or don't and accept what you've already paid for.

If there are other reasons beyond cash that limits an Odyssey purchase then support and buy the ship. Unlike the Horizons ships which required you to buy the DLC, you now have options.

 

[Northpin]

I was adding my point of view on why some people might not be willing or able to buy/play Odyssey. Just because someone didn't buy Odyssey for a different reason is irrelevant.

You're basically saying to those people "Sucks to be you, PC Master Race FTW, buy a better computer you poor person if you don't want to pay for the Python Mk2 with real money."

Look, i'm a console player. My first ED account was on XB and i started at the end of November 2018.
I can still play Elite Dangerous on my XB One S. The game i payed for, back then. It's still available

But besides the fact that i can still play the game i payed for, FDev gifted me a free copy of the game on PC and a free account copy to PC.
I cannot really fault them in any way - i find their business practices really consumer friendly

Now compare this to... for example... lemnis gate - which launched 2021 as a live service game and shutdown in 2023 - developers didnt offer any offline mode. PC players that payed for that game cannot play it at all, 2 years after launch.


And i see absolutely no problem to have Ships or features that are locked behind the PDLC that is Odyssey (nothing new, it happened back then with Horizons too and it happens in any live service game) or, as an extra option, for Arx in the store. When Horizons launched back then, base players didnt had the store option if they wanted only the Alliance ships for example.

What i find staggering is for players to keep demanding features for free - without even having the courtesy to pay the PDLC.

Is quite simple, the Python Mk2 will be in Legacy.

Will be? Are you sure about that? I dont think so. Legacy code is frozen. Nothing comes there except the Server Shutdown announcement which is bound to happen sometime

As i read it, Python mk2 will be available to Live40 - Horizons, for credits only. Which is just an option.
So FDev is giving us options

• 1) buy Odyssey, get all the perks and all the ships for free
• 2) if you really want just the ship, as a base player game (live40), you have the option to buy just a ship (as i said, back then in 2015, base players didnt had this option)

What is wrong with this?
Everyone has to pay for new features, one way or the other. I payed too by getting Odyssey (for all my 3 accounts)

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Look, i'm a console player. My first ED account was on XB and i started at the end of November 2018.
I can still play Elite Dangerous on my XB One S. The game i payed for, back then. It's still available

But besides the fact that i can still play the game i payed for, FDev gifted me a free copy of the game on PC and a free account copy to PC.
I cannot really fault them in any way - i find their business practices really consumer friendly

Now compare this to... for example... lemnis gate - which launched 2021 as a live service game and shutdown in 2023 - developers didnt offer any offline mode. PC players that payed for that game cannot play it at all, 2 years after launch.


And i see absolutely no problem to have Ships or features that are locked behind the PDLC that is Odyssey (nothing new, it happened back then with Horizons too and it happens in any live service game) or, as an extra option, for Arx in the store. When Horizons launched back then, base players didnt had the store option if they wanted only the Alliance ships for example.

What i find staggering is for players to keep demanding features for free - without even having the courtesy to pay the PDLC.



Will be? Are you sure about that? I dont think so. Legacy code is frozen. Nothing comes there except the Server Shutdown announcement which is bound to happen sometime

As i read it, Python mk2 will be available to Live40 - Horizons, for credits only. Which is just an option.
So FDev is giving us options

• 1) buy Odyssey, get all the perks and all the ships for free
• 2) if you really want just the ship, as a base player game (live40), you have the option to buy just a ship (as i said, back then in 2015, base players didnt had this option)

What is wrong with this?
Everyone has to pay for new features, one way or the other. I payed too by getting Odyssey (for all my 3 accounts)

FD have said the Python Mk2 will be available to legacy players in return for ARX only. You won't be able to get it with credits.

Do you see the issue now?

Everyone has to pay for new features,

For sure, and this argument has been made many times by many people over the last week or so. And nobody is arguing against that. What we are arguing against is FD's chosen method of generating that income. There are other ways for FD to make money.

If you haven't seen it yet, check out this post:

Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore

nah, it looks that it's a large and is far behind the cockpit, between the two large on the sides, maybe slightly behind them Besides hardpoints, I was just wondering how they'd balance internals to give her more speed, agility and so on, as imho only an FdL-Python hybrid would make a PM2...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[Ian Doncaster]

FD have said the Python Mk2 will be available to legacy players in return for ARX only.

This seems a pretty clear "Legacy players will not get the Python 2 even if they pay ARX" to me.

New Elite Dangerous content such as the Python MkII, Powerplay 2.0, ship bundles etc are for the Live version of Elite Dangerous. As previously announced, there are no current plans to bring updates to Legacy outside of critical fixes should they be necessary.

 

[aRJay]

...

The ship will be there and buyable with in-game money on Odyssey, but FD are deliberately making Legacy players pay real world money for it. And you're defending that?

…

Is quite simple, the Python Mk2 will be in Legacy. People who give FD money can have it, people who don't, can't (well, unless they save up a ton of ARX), whereas in Odyssey it will be available for in-game credits.

Why did FD do this to Legacy players? Why are you supporting it? I can't fathom why anyone would support this. This isn't even about whether ships should be available for ARX, its about discriminating against a portion of the playerbase for no apparent reason.

You keep confusing Horizons with Legacy.

Legacy is Horizons 3.8 and gets no new content.
Live is Horizons 4.0 and Odyssey, Odyssey players can buy the new Python in the game and use it in either version of Live, players with just Horizons 4.0 (Live) can obtain it via the game store for Arx.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

This seems a pretty clear "Legacy players will not get the Python 2 even if they pay ARX" to me.

Then perhaps Paul should take a look at the official announcement here: https://www.elitedangerous.com/news/python-mk-ii-updates-gamestore

Non-Odyssey owners will be able access ship variants from the store for ARX.

EDIT: just seen the next post:

You keep confusing Horizons with Legacy.

Legacy is Horizons 3.8 and gets no new content.
Live is Horizons 4.0 and Odyssey, Odyssey players can buy the new Python in the game and use it in either version of Live, players with just Horizons 4.0 (Live) can obtain it via the game store for Arx.

Goddamnit FD! Why do you have to make things so complicated!?

Ok, so to take a step back, it still a bad move, requiring Horizons players to pay with ARX. Still sucks for Legacy players, but understandable since support has stopped (and there is my Python Mk2 there for anyone).

Again, keep in mind, the Python will be there, in game, for Horizons players, just they have to pay with ARX/real world money, whereas Odyssey players can buy with in game credits.

 

[aRJay]

Then perhaps Paul should take a look at the official announcement here: https://www.elitedangerous.com/news/python-mk-ii-updates-gamestore

Non Odyssey is not the same as Legacy.

There is a Live version of Horizons that can be played without having Odyssey.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Non Odyssey is not the same as Legacy.

There is a Live version of Horizons that can be played without having Odyssey.

Yeah, see my edit to the previous post. I read your post after writing that.

 

[aRJay]

Yeah, see my edit to the previous post. I read your post after writing that.

Back in the day when I only had the base game and the game store was only on micro transactions for console users it would have been a welcome option to be able to get some of the Horizons access only ships.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Back in the day when I only had the base game and the game store was only on micro transactions for console users it would have been a welcome option to be able to get some of the Horizons access only ships.

Back in the day, that should never have been a thing. Same with the CM4.

 

[Doctor Dread]

I have upgraded my Legacy 3.8 to LIVE 4.0 a few weeks ago.
Since then, this is what I see on the opening screen of the game.

This gives me in-game access to everything Odyssey except the walking elements - can't disembark.

So Frontier, where do we 4.0 Live go into, "still considered as Legacy and no cookies for you" or "consider yourself users of Odyssey"?

 

[Ian Doncaster]

So Frontier, where do we 4.0 Live go into, "still considered as Legacy and no cookies for you" or "consider yourself users of Odyssey"?

You're 4.0 Horizons Live users, so you get everything in Live that isn't an Odyssey exclusive, so neither of those.

To extend the table from upthread a bit - names in "quotes" are how Frontier generally refers to them in their own communications

Feature	Legacy 3.8 Horizons "Legacy"	Live 4.0 Horizons "Horizons"	Live 4.0 Odyssey "Odyssey"
Python 2 available for ARX from May	No	Yes	Yes
Python 2 available without ARX from August	No	No	Yes
Thargoid War	No	Yes	Yes
Thargoid War Spire Sites	No	No	Yes
Walking around	No	No	Yes
Thin atmosphere landings	No	No	Yes
Powerplay 2 when it's released	No	Yes	Yes
Powerplay 1	Yes	Only until Powerplay 2 releases	Only until Powerplay 2 releases
Mamba, Krait Phantom, Krait II	Yes	Yes	Yes
Engineers	Yes	Yes	Yes
Suit Engineers	No	No	Yes
The coming engineering reform	No	Probably at least some of it	Yes
The mystery feature	No	Maybe, they're not saying yet	Almost certainly yes
Runs on consoles	Yes	No	No

 

[Agony_Aunt]

You're 4.0 Horizons Live users, so you get everything in Live that isn't an Odyssey exclusive, so neither of those.

To extend the table from upthread a bit - names in "quotes" are how Frontier generally refers to them in their own communications

Feature	Legacy 3.8 Horizons "Legacy"	Live 4.0 Horizons "Horizons"	Live 4.0 Odyssey "Odyssey"
Python 2 available for ARX from May	No	Yes	Yes
Python 2 available without ARX from August	No	No	Yes
Thargoid War	No	Yes	Yes
Thargoid War Spire Sites	No	No	Yes
Walking around	No	No	Yes
Thin atmosphere landings	No	No	Yes
Powerplay 2 when it's released	No	Yes	Yes
Powerplay 1	Yes	Only until Powerplay 2 releases	Only until Powerplay 2 releases
Mamba, Krait Phantom, Krait II	Yes	Yes	Yes
Engineers	Yes	Yes	Yes
Suit Engineers	No	No	Yes
The coming engineering reform	No	Probably at least some of it	Yes
The mystery feature	No	Maybe, they're not saying yet	Almost certainly yes
Runs on consoles	Yes	No	No

Powerplay on Legacy has to be pretty dead by now.

I can imagine its just one player running each power

 

[angusmadmac1]

You're 4.0 Horizons Live users, so you get everything in Live that isn't an Odyssey exclusive, so neither of those.

To extend the table from upthread a bit - names in "quotes" are how Frontier generally refers to them in their own communications

Feature	Legacy 3.8 Horizons "Legacy"	Live 4.0 Horizons "Horizons"	Live 4.0 Odyssey "Odyssey"
Python 2 available for ARX from May	No	Yes	Yes
Python 2 available without ARX from August	No	No	Yes
Thargoid War	No	Yes	Yes
Thargoid War Spire Sites	No	No	Yes
Walking around	No	No	Yes
Thin atmosphere landings	No	No	Yes
Powerplay 2 when it's released	No	Yes	Yes
Powerplay 1	Yes	Only until Powerplay 2 releases	Only until Powerplay 2 releases
Mamba, Krait Phantom, Krait II	Yes	Yes	Yes
Engineers	Yes	Yes	Yes
Suit Engineers	No	No	Yes
The coming engineering reform	No	Probably at least some of it	Yes
The mystery feature	No	Maybe, they're not saying yet	Almost certainly yes
Runs on consoles	Yes	No	No

So what you are saying then is non odyssey is both horizons and Legacy as the are both not Odyssey ???? So we should get the python ? On the non odyssey legacy .
Sorry I couldnt resist .
But you can see the issue
If Fdev had said Horizon 4.0 instead of non Odyssey this may not have been issue .

 

[Northpin]

Goddamnit FD! Why do you have to make things so complicated!?

Ok, so to take a step back, it still a bad move, requiring Horizons players to pay with ARX. Still sucks for Legacy players, but understandable since support has stopped (and there is my Python Mk2 there for anyone).

Come on!
It's weekend, let's just pop a cold one and hope ED will keep running for many years

Again, keep in mind, the Python will be there, in game, for Horizons players, just they have to pay with ARX/real world money, whereas Odyssey players can buy with in game credits.

same happened with ships in Horizons that were not available back then to base users - Dolphin, Beluga, Alliance Ships, T10, both Kraits - all these were Horizons only. Base players had no option to get them except for buying Horizons.

And i still dont have a Cobra Mk4, goddammit... where is that beer?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Come on!
It's weekend, let's just pop a cold one and hope ED will keep running for many years



same happened with ships in Horizons that were not available back then to base users - Dolphin, Beluga, Alliance Ships, T10, both Kraits - all these were Horizons only. Base players had no option to get them except for buying Horizons.

And i still dont have a Cobra Mk4, goddammit... where is that beer?

Love my CM4. Its not the best ship by a long way, but it makes a really nice Odyssey mission runner. You can pack a ton of hull modules on it and get decent shields so when things go south at a base it can take a pounding from the security while you get to your ship and take off.

Plus 5 hardpoints are great for wiping out NPCs at bases from above with missiles.

 

[Northpin]

Love my CM4. Its not the best ship by a long way, but it makes a really nice Odyssey mission runner. You can pack a ton of hull modules on it and get decent shields so when things go south at a base it can take a pounding from the security while you get to your ship and take off.

Plus 5 hardpoints are great for wiping out NPCs at bases from above with missiles.

Grr... yea, rub it in... in the mean time i have to do it with the DBX... pff, not fair