BGS overhaul Open, Solo, Group debate

Rubbernuke

Rubbernuke
Phisto Sobanii said:
I think that's a very conservative estimate.
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I made this for Forum War I over Open Powerplay:

130115


If anyone from ED said Solo and PG are being depreciated it would be F5 Salt x 10000. Not even Dennis Quaids chin smile from The Day After Tomorrow could save you from its salty Armageddon

130116
 

patttiat

patttiat
it is so frustrading, we shoot the whole day and one pilot in solo can destroy our effort, and we can do nothing.

i stop playing again, this is nonsense and a timewaste
 

Screemonster

Screemonster
Even if we were all in open and all in the same platform and instanced perfectly, it still wouldn't be practical to blockade a system.

For a huge amount of BGS transactions, the actual work is done outside of the system of interest. Let's say I take a settlement scan mission - I've got a window of up to six days to hit any system with a planetary installation within 20 light years and you think it's practical to intercept me? If you're lucky you could catch me on the return trip but, again, six day window. I only have to run the gauntlet to the station once. If I'm taking deliveries or the like then it's even harder to stop me completing the mission - unless you try following my wake (and lord knows I wouldn't pick my actual destination if I thought I was going to be followed, I'd jump, drop and jump again) you've got from the time I leave the mailslot to the time I exit masslock to stop me.
Data dumps, trades, bounty drops, again - I only need one clear run to the station on a given day. The amount of manpower you'd need to expend to prevent that one run is time better spent filling your own buckets.

What the BGS really needs is for balance to be tweaked such that the modes don't matter, and rein in some of the more overpowered methods available.

Back in the day, murder used to be overpowered. Especially prior to ATR, you could effectively just pull the first NPC you saw and blow them away, wait for the cops to come, and start blasting. Since you weren't returning to supercruise, it was impossible to find you even if you were in the same mode. Bounties at the time were underpowered, as you only got a transaction every time you returned to the station, as opposed to every time you scored a kill. Now, negative influence in general has been changed and it's not really possible to tank a faction's influence to nothing in a single tick the way it was back then, so while it has an effect, it's no longer the sledgehammer it once was.

Now things have swung the other way. Bounty influence appears to be based on the amount earned - which has not only opened up abuse in the form of people killing their friends for bounties, but also allows for silly behaviours like farming bounties in one system and using them to raise influence in an entirely different one. While this was sort of possible before, it was pretty clunky (to the point of it being a better use of time to just use the mission boards) to repeatedly jump to a friendly system, grab a bounty, jump back to another system you're working in, cruise to the station, cash in, and repeat.

Personally, I'd prefer it if bounties just worked as a direct opposite-number to murders. As in, no cash-in required, the BGS transaction takes place the instant you earn the voucher, and affects that system in particular. That would pretty much instantly curtail the problem of farming in one system to take over a different one.
Probably something to cap the effect of a single kill too, to avoid the whole "I get a 2 million bounty then let my 4 friends kill me for a total of 8 million bounty points" thing. Hell, make the BGS effect of a kill not get multiplied by the number of people in a wing.

Add onto that a general BGS balance in favour of "if you're in a particular economic/security state, actions that cause that state no longer have an inf effect, while actions that cause the opposite state have an increased effect" and you'll deal with the problem of people spamming the same actions over and over. If a faction's already in investment then they don't get more inf from trade, if a faction's already in lockdown then you can't hurt them any more by murder, etc.
 

patttiat

patttiat
Rat Catcher said:
One pilot?
Wow!
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yes, one pilot with selling alot of goods can have a hughe impact, with a carrier near the station and full with Painit.
and we have a real life with work.

it is annoying, otherwise we would have a chance to catch him and bully him out of the system
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
The ability to impact the people attacking your BGS regardless of their game mode would be nice. E.g. run some espionage missions and do some donations to release info to your favoured faction about who's helping the opposition or has a bad rep with your fac, which then initiates a targeted assassination drive against the hostile CMDR by NPCs capable of having an impact on CMDRs (the dreaded "competent interdiction and combat ability", and FSD disruption). Or some better ideas of you clever people.
 

[VR] Bulbulunufus

[VR] Bulbulunufus
As for botting, removing heal beams from the game and properly designing influential instances (whatever the BGS equivalent of the relic of powerplay combat zones is) to need resetting (or e.g. you die by some plausible means) would make it harder.
 

Misty_Dark

Misty_Dark
patttiat said:
it is so frustrading, we shoot the whole day and one pilot in solo can destroy our effort, and we can do nothing.

i stop playing again, this is nonsense and a timewaste
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patttiat said:
yes, one pilot with selling alot of goods can have a hughe impact, with a carrier near the station and full with Painit.
and we have a real life with work.
Click to expand...

This tells alot more about you and your friends than that lone pilot.

If you refuses to learn and understand how the BGS works, and instead act on how want the BGS to work, then of course a single player can walk all over your influence, and destroy it.
Most often when these sorts of things is brought up, it is a system that your selected faction controls.

So this is yet another, I need to pew-pew the any other player that might or might not work against my preferred faction.
I dock in your system with Carrier full of goods and are now flying back and forth to sell it, I do not care about your politics here, I care about profit, and if a station in your system pays good credits for my stuff, I will of course sell my stuff here... and if you are so clueless about this and have not taken over this station, then this is on you.
So you start to pew-pwe my ship, since I know how the BGS works, I can now turn you against your OWN faction. Profit out the window, time to teach these players a lesson.
I can quikcly identify what faction you are supporting, as that is most likely the cotnrolling faction, so I fly to a station that you controls, I also changes to a very inexpecinse ship, known that you in your infinite wisdom, like s to become outlaws for being "smart". SO this is what is going to happen now.

1. Me in cheap ship, easy to kill, will load a little bit of cargo, like 1T,
2. Fly and get killed by oyou, since I am clean, and you engage in hostile actiivity, you get wanted in your OWN system
3. Since your controlling faction now has a bunch of murder hobos in their system, killing innocent ships, they loose influence due to this.
4. After a while, you will be denid DOCKING at your own factions startports in this system, becyase youare now the villains of this system!

and I can keep doing this, and once you have gone back your other lifes, I simply swtich back to my big hauler, and start to deliver my stuff to the OTHER station you are NOT controlling, making even more negative impact on your factions influence, and I will now easily make up for all the lost profit, and I can then just reap the reward from you next day when you log back in and notices how your syustem is tuyrning into a a turmoil, and ifI am lucky, you will repeat yesterdays "smart" choices and by now, I do not even transport anything, just the sight of me in an inexpensive ship would boil your blood to shoot me on sight.


To avoid this, learn how the BGS works, there are many excellent guides out there, and there are very rarely any benefit to do any sort of PvP when it comes to BGS.
And expecting to only do combat for BGS and reject any of all the other activities that influence BGS, then you should not be messing around with BGS, as any group interrested in working for the BGS will come out on top since you do not really play the BGS, youy are just getting lucky that noone else have expanded their faction into your system.
 

Rat Catcher

Rat Catcher
patttiat said:
yes, one pilot with selling alot of goods can have a hughe impact, with a carrier near the station and full with Painit.
and we have a real life with work.

it is annoying, otherwise we would have a chance to catch him and bully him out of the system
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One pilot can undo how many people's efforts?

Either one pilot understands how things work, or maybe your efforts are far less than one pilot's....

Whatever one pilot can do, another one pilot should be able to counter - unless the defending faction / group are not playing efficiently... Sorry 🤷‍♂️
 
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