The Thargoid War: System States Clarifications

[redthorne]

I'm going to set all the micromechanics aside here.

The bottom line is, you never, never reset players' progress towards a goal in an MMO. This is a sin against a playerbase.

You can change the goal (with notice.) You can change the tools needed to get to the goal. You can adjust difficulty of things standing between the playerbase and the goal. But NEVER negate the personal time and dedication your customers put into progressing towards the goal. Right now the appearance is that you have done this, Fdev. If you haven't, you need to find a way to explain to us what's going on.

Unless you quickly come out with something that instills a sense of belonging and "I continue to make a difference even if we lose," then I believe this entire thing will lose us players, then the whole thing it out the window and pointless.

 

[Cori]

The bottom line is, you never, never reset players' progress towards a goal in an MMO. This is a sin against a playerbase.

Most MMOs will do pretty much anything to avoid a global rollback. They know exactly how badly their players will take it.

 

[Wlfric]

Greetings Commanders,

We wanted to take this opportunity to clarify some details about system states within the Thargoid War:

• The UI provides time in weeks: this is how long the system will remain in a given state. If the state isn't pushed back it will progress (Alert to Invasion or Invasion to Controlled).
• If the progress bar is filled at the end of a week, the state will be pushed back and Thargoids will be defeated in that system. If not, the bar is reset for the next week. Players have as long as the time stated in the above to defeat the Thargoids.

With these points in mind, a number of systems are currently liable to remain under attack as progress resets with the weekly tick on Thursday. However there is still time to win them back!

O7

Did you add to your adjustment calculations the attrition of commander participation in realization that efforts are futile? Going to be hard to balance as more and more die-hard players find other things to do with their time than waste it on something that is visibly not winnable. AXI and others focused on a single system, giving up their RL free time to give maximum effort. It moved the bar barely 40% to find it reset this morning. I highly doubt maximum effort will be given again, just the nature of people to give it their all the first time but interest wanes over time. Interest wanes even more when no results.
Please keep this in mind as you make your adjustments. You will never see participation levels like you did the first week, especially after a robust fail on all fronts.

 

[CMDR Val Dudley]

Losing Farkas land port because progress bars for CZ never filled up and invisible interceptors broke the instance for days and days, then seeing that progress is reset. Why not put the last 3 stargoids land directly on Sol and pull the plug and shut down the servers altogether?

 

[Blox_]

Well, this last week was really fun y'all. Here's to the next fun mechanic with an unneeded " you" button. o7

 

[Pralines]

I'm going to set all the micromechanics aside here.

The bottom line is, you never, never reset players' progress towards a goal in an MMO. This is a sin against a playerbase.

You can change the goal (with notice.) You can change the tools needed to get to the goal. You can adjust difficulty of things standing between the playerbase and the goal. But NEVER negate the personal time and dedication your customers put into progressing towards the goal. Right now the appearance is that you have done this, Fdev. If you haven't, you need to find a way to explain to us what's going on.

Unless you quickly come out with something that instills a sense of belonging and "I continue to make a difference even if we lose," then I believe this entire thing will lose us players, then the whole thing it out the window and pointless.

well said

 

[Posilovic]

After 7 years of playing ED, this was my first time engaging in xeno combat. I even fully engineered my chieftain and unlocked most guardian blueprints in a span of few days to participate in defending HIP 23716. After seeing all progress is reset I'm out, and I'm probably not the only one. I guess I'll go back to trading and exploring, and let the bubble burn... Thanks FDEV !

 

[Dogsbody_D]

About this Countdown Timer business
I had thought the timer Weeks/Days confusion was just a display bug, but losing Matshiru implies it's more borked than that:

Matshiru
6th December: Thargoid Infestation in 1W 6D
7th December: Thargoid Infestation in 0w 6D
8th December: Thargoid Infestation in -1W 6D ??? I.e. less than zero i.e. system is lost.

It was bad enough when we thought progress was reset on a Thursday, but if each day really takes a week off the timer the situation is impossible.

 

[Thundachild]

The current mechanic has taken the wind out of a significant revival of the game as many have said.
Suggestion:
The BGS war mechanic takes place over 4 days, winning 3+ is a win win 2 is draw etc.
If they had a daily tally, you would need 4+ wins in a week to stop a state progress.
Even winning 1 out of 7 would be progress, & it would also give a metric to help Fdev adjust thresholds (Ensure that players win at least 1 day a week to ensure a sense that something was being achieved).
It would also mean that if you want to focus your efforts as a CMDR, look for a system with 1 or more wins as a potential weekly win to target.
They could continue to reset every week, because the daily tally would show reward for effort.
As many have said, winning 1 or 2 systems a week is not going bring the war to an end in a month or 3 (Could still take years), but it's game over if everyone leaves to play other games.

 

[Oaktree]

Losing progress is like telling me I wasted my time. I'm not going to do the same effort I did last week this week now. My playtime these days isnt much and I dont want to waste it.

I'll be waiting for better balance/tools to continue this thargoid story.

Frustrating players by making them waste all their work was not a good idea FD. Sense of accomplishment is an important feeling playing any game.

 

[Thatchinho]

@Bruce G I know you’re probably overwhelmed with all the comments at the moment, but could I just ask a question / make a point regarding the mechanic?

At the moment the mechanic is effectively a ‘you have x number of tries’ mechanic. What is it actually supposed to represent in terms of simulating the war?

And on a strategy level, surely if we strongly defend a system, that would mark it out to the Thargoids as being a system of strategic significance to us and lead to them throwing much more forces at it? Are they really going to just give up on a (genuinely or seemingly) significant system if we manage to succeed in one of the x number of alloted tries?

 

[Cunder]

This is a dumb analogy related to the topic of weekly resets. Are you using this platform as a dumping ground for your Xeno affections? Or are you trying to roleplay this somehow and everyone is missing it or not understanding?
I could see this as a base for an argument if we were losing the war to natural progression. However, that's not the case. We are losing the war because the cards are not only stacked against us by the developer in terms of THEIR OWN INTERFERENCE but by also the numbers game.

It's not analogy it's a perspective. One side lost the ability to create peace cause the other half wants to fight and win wars.

Now the war starts you are not going to win the war the way you want it.

Either way no matter how you look at it you weren't meant to win the war.

it started with 1 Thargoid cluster system set to expansion. Two on standby and 2 in route for next week.

Now that the week past it's 3 Thargoid on expansion, 2 on on standby, 3 In route to destination.

Next week it's going to be 5 on Expansion, and depending on the arrival of the last 3 if they all come at the same time it's 3 on standby. Then that following week all 8 Thargoid clusters will be on Expansion.

When you look at the Galaxy Map and highlight System the Mothership is currently located it tells you how many Systems are in CZ and how many systems are taken over.

Chances are you have to clear all the areas that are taken over before you can even move to the Mothership.

 

[Thatchinho]

This is a dumb analogy related to the topic of weekly resets. Are you using this platform as a dumping ground for your Xeno affections? Or are you trying to roleplay this somehow and everyone is missing it or not understanding?
I could see this as a base for an argument if we were losing the war to natural progression. However, that's not the case. We are losing the war because the cards are not only stacked against us by the developer in terms of THEIR OWN INTERFERENCE but by also the numbers game.

I think the point is that we’ve provoked a war in which the cards were always going to be very heavily stacked against us.

Complaining that the cards are then stacked against us is ridiculous. Whether the cards being very heavily stacked against us is being well simulated is a completely different matter of course.

 

[The Atlas]

thankfully i didn't engage with anything this week cause my spider senses were tingling

 

[Luther McKain]

Honest

I think the point is that we’ve provoked a war in which the cards were always going to be very heavily stacked against us.

Complaining that the cards are then stacked against us is ridiculous. Whether the cards being very heavily stacked against us is being well simulated is a completely different matter of course.

The point is, a few provoked this war, not everyone. Those who didnt are now forced into a "no-chance-to-win"-Gameplay. Fine for the AXI or those wanting to kill the Thargoids have fun with pew pew. I dont. I would have been fine rescuing people but playing this for a week with my whole squad and two allied squads on one system evacuating has not shown any progress at all. Now learning this will reset after a week gives me only one choice: I am out. I go back to my home system doing what i usually do until the goids invade and i quite or FD turns the game off, which is what i believe is intended by this miserable and demotivating situation. Our squad has openly disagreed with the xeno-annihilation by the superweapen that turned into a show.
So, have a nice "end-game" hence this appears to be the end. FD should have given us a real choice or at least an option.

 

[Fi5hboN3]

Rather than a full Thargoid reset each week, I think it should at least be a parentage drop due to Thargoid reinforcements. something like 10 - 20 %.
Also a percentage inf boost if a fed/imp capital ship is present in a zone

 

[galahad2069]

Over time, we get better organization, and better weapons, and other items that improve the effectiveness of the human effort.

Well, using the current weapons the community managed to fill the bar to 50%. In a single wretched system. How many systems are they attacking per week? Idk, let's say 5, I cannot bother to look it up. And that's just 1 Maelstrom. How many will there be? Something like 8?

Okay, so the new weapons need to be 2x5x8=80 times more poweful, if fdev want players to be able to stop Thargoids.
That will be helluva dps. It will be the biggest gankfest in history, can't wait.

 

[Wlfric]

I think the point is that we’ve provoked a war in which the cards were always going to be very heavily stacked against us.

Complaining that the cards are then stacked against us is ridiculous. Whether the cards being very heavily stacked against us is being well simulated is a completely different matter of course.

This isn't a complaint that the cards are stacked against us. This is a complaint that we took a hill but when we woke up, we were back were we started. Imagine fighting at Normandy Beach, giving it your all. Maybe you can't push on into the rest of the country and take it back, you don't know. But when you wake up after the fight, find you're back on the amphibious lander and Normandy Beach is like you were never there? What a nightmare.

 

[Luther McKain]

Well, using the current weapons the community managed to fill the bar to 50%. In a single wretched system. How many systems are they attacking per week? Idk, let's say 5, I cannot bother to look it up. And that's just 1 Maelstrom. How many will there be? Something like 8?

Okay, so the new weapons need to be 2x5x8=80 times more poweful, if fdev want players to be able to stop Thargoids.
That will be helluva dps. It will be the biggest gankfest in history, can't wait.

Even with improved Weapons it would mean the community would need to stay engaged etc. with this little progress people loose interest. There is a reason why BGS attracts more people than Powerplay. Hence success is realized quicker. I doubt that you could engage this community in a long hauling pew pew game. Elite was always more than pew pew.

 

[Pralines]

Well, using the current weapons the community managed to fill the bar to 50%. In a single wretched system. How many systems are they attacking per week? Idk, let's say 5, I cannot bother to look it up. And that's just 1 Maelstrom. How many will there be? Something like 8?

Okay, so the new weapons need to be 2x5x8=80 times more poweful, if fdev want players to be able to stop Thargoids.
That will be helluva dps. It will be the biggest gankfest in history, can't wait.

i could participate to that, even with a daily reset !