No Single Player offline Mode then?

[mbpoblet]

Remember how many people here have been complaining about monotonous missions, simplistic market trading, repetitive game play? That kind of worse.

If you want a vibrant universe a la EVE Online, then you need, well, online. You need the interaction of other players to create the narrative. EVE does have a lot of writers creating backstory and 'news reports', but they operate on a £5 million a month budget generated by subscription play. And all that backstory still has to come to your computer via online.

Give us local servers (stripped of any "spoilers" if you want, just give us the astronomical catalogue stars and the option to input our own galactic seed, missions, and whatnot) and we'll take care of that, don't worry.

Oh, and previous Elite games already had enough narrative. Most of the people who want an offline mode, if not all, would be perfectly happy with that.

 

[Kicks]

I bet on it changing little far as bugs go. Really hoping whatever it is that is preventing me and my friends from playing together gets fixed.

Completely with you on this. If we consider that Frontier have deemed offline as not possible due to it not being the game they wish to deliver, they sure as hell need to ensure that we can play together in an online universe. I won't deny I've had multiple online issues, despite a fantastic internet connection. Let's hope they've addressed those issues.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Yes.

The game is pretty much worse for me now, because I have to have an internet connection to play solo.

That's very much worse.

You have to have online connection to play the game which is online game to begin with.

 

[Skeloton]

Human consciousness?

That's what AIs are for and you get them in all currently available modes.

 

[Azimuth]

Regarding the online-only game being 'better' than offline: when I started playing premium beta, the server wouldn't maintain a connection to my machine for more than a few seconds - essentially, there was no game, because I could rarely make it to the docking port to undock before the game crashed.

That has improved since (thank heavens) but I still experience slow load times and occasional crashes. Right now, I prefer playing in private group mode (usually with only one or two other people on), because attempting to play in open play often causes slow load times, slow transitions in and out of supercruise, and bad framerate drops around stations. The play experience I get in 'solo' or 'private group' is demonstrably better than 'open play' because it's more stable and there are fewer interruptions to play. I most enjoy the space simulator elements of ED; any time there's stuttering, or framerate drops, or a connection drop, it impacts immersion and makes the game 'worse' for me.

It's great seeing other human players in space, but as soon as it started impacting the performance of the game, I found I'd rather sacrifice that aspect first.

 

[Danelin]

Spending time on an offline mode is wasted if it doesn't provide the game that we've set out to make - which is the case here. For us the game needs the richness that the online galaxy gives us. Without it there is no game.

Michael

I could be misinterpreting here, but I strongly suspect that the offline mode in its (apparently now final) iterations was looking essentially much the same as what we are seeing in beta 3, but with more systems. There was a pretty vocal amount of backlash on the forums about how dead the game feels. Multiple long-winded threads on the subject in fact.

I strongly suspect this led to internal discussion that resulted in the devs agreeing with the sentiment that without the server end dynamic the game would be insanely poor quality AND require a lot of development hours that could be (providing those conditions existing) better spent developing the dynamic universe, which is the game the developers wanted to make from the beginning.

I still feel the communication was lacking however.

 

[Jason S]

Well I am looking at the Oolite page, that is now the offline option.

http://www.oolite.org/

 

[tomba4]

Multiplayer does exist. It has some edges that need smoothing, and various other improvements. Nobody is denying that. But your premise that "Because we can't have offline, multiplayer is evidently the problem" is flawed a little, Commander. I'm sure you, as I, hope it gets fixed in 3.9. In fact, I've made a bet on it

Nah, "Because we can't have offline, multiplayer is evidently the problem" doesn't really make sense to me either, I think I understand what FDev are trying to do (open world online play, with events steered from the FDev central, example of which we had during the Eranin crisis), but I am really tired of forum evangelists trying to whiten everything; and lack of the promised offline mode *IS* a problem, which should have been handled in a very different way.

 

[WeirdWizard]

Spending time on an offline mode is wasted if it doesn't provide the game that we've set out to make - which is the case here. For us the game needs the richness that the online galaxy gives us. Without it there is no game.

Michael

I assume that richness is not currently implemented in the beta... Because if it is then its functionally invisible to the end user and I would suggest was not worth cutting offline mode for.

 

[Kicks]

I could be misinterpreting here, but I strongly suspect that the offline mode in its (apparently now final) iterations was looking essentially much the same as what we are seeing in beta 3, but with more systems. There was a pretty vocal amount of backlash on the forums about how dead the game feels. Multiple long-winded threads on the subject in fact.

I strongly suspect this led to internal discussion that resulted in the devs agreeing with the sentiment that without the server end dynamic the game would be insanely poor quality AND require a lot of development hours that could be (providing those conditions existing) better spent developing the dynamic universe, which is the game the developers wanted to make from the beginning.

I still feel the communication was lacking however.

This was exactly my thoughts also, Danelin.

 

[Juniper]

There is no arm twisting. Circumstances are simply staff we have available and what could be spared to work on something that doesn't support the core design of the game.

Michael

So, I take from that that staff were needed for the release push. I get that. So no offline for release.

But surely further down the line after release this could be looked at, when staff are more "available"?

I'll skip over the "core design of the game" aspect for now, as we both know that offline was a principle tenet of the Kickstarter funding and was meant to be part of the core design of the game we all funded... the fact you chose to ignore it in favour of the precious 'multiplayer' is something I will not soon forgive or forget.

 

[Horasfalter]

In a word, yes.

People who expected and were indeed informed offline was planned already knew they would get a less rich and less immersive galaxy to play in. We already knew it would be a worse game overall with none of the dynamic galactic events but were happy with that.

I respect the fact that you tried to make offline work and failed and I don't for one second believe you deliberately deceived us. That does not change the fact that a significant portion of the people who gave you money when you asked for it, did so base purely on the promise that offline was coming.

You are so right. I have given my money not only because I want to play Elite but because of the complete offline possibility and this was something that FD promised. I can live with the concsequence that we will not take part of any online events but under these circumstances I feel betrayed for such an importend element (sorry for my english).

 

[jamotide]

Again? DRM... You keep using that word. I know it does not mean what you think it means.

No, YOU don't know what it means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Persistent_online_authentication

 

[Michael Brookes]

Elite, Elite II and First Encounters weren't games then? Interesting.

Of course they were, but we want to do something beyond what was in those games. Namely a galaxy that changes, that creates missions and activities.

Michael

 

[Dave Leestir]

There is no arm twisting. Circumstances are simply staff we have available and what could be spared to work on something that doesn't support the core design of the game.

Michael

Wow. There it is. I hope you hated saying it as much as...

So core design, like for example Supercruise / FSD mini-games etc.
Or extra ships.

How about agreeing that you have reduced scope for launch, but that "non-core" stuff could come later?
Didn't the funding exceed the original target? Isn't there some spare cash to pay for offline work?
How do you know - without finding a solution - whether you can afford to implement it?

 

[Kicks]

Nah, "Because we can't have offline, multiplayer is evidently the problem" doesn't really make sense to me either, I think I understand what FDev are trying to do (open world online play, with events steered from the FDev central, example of which we had during the Eranin crisis), but I am really tired of forum evangelists trying to whiten everything; and lack of the promised offline mode *IS* a problem, which should have been handled in a very different way.

Honestly, all my cards on the table, I agree with the lacklustre delivery. It could have been handled better. From what it appears it's like it was a footnote in the newsletter, and Michael is left to pick up the pieces on Saturday.

I don't see any evidence of deceit, however. And I agree with the direction. The delivery is a bit "all testicles and no trousers".

 

[Juniper]

You have to have online connection to play the game which is online game to begin with.

It was never intended as a purely online game from the Kickstarter onwards. At least that's what we were told up until last night.

I don't give a rat's ass for multiplayer. Offline was to be my sanctuary. And others too.

 

[Kris]

The problem is that you wouldn't have got that. During the kickstarter we thought we would be able to operate a dual mode with the offline version cut down. As we've progressed more of the game has had to exist online, so much so that an offline version would be mostly a new and different game - which is something we can't support.

Michael

Am i reading this right that (continuous) work with Peer-to-Peer system (that made to change some things more server moderated system etc) have been big factor in this decision?

 

[PrometheusDarko]

Can ED at least make the Solo mode a connection when required not an always on one as is the case now.

Uhmmm. That is the way it works now. The server checks in during instance shifts, purchases, and a few other things, but otherwise, in solo mode, it's not a constant back and forth a la WoW/Eve.

But surely further down the line after release this could be looked at, when staff are more "available"?

Juniper you are again picking and choosing your quotes. He already explained that it's both a staffing issue and an issue of cutting up the game to the point that an offline version would barely represent what we have now.

 

[Michael Brookes]

So, I take from that that staff were needed for the release push. I get that. So no offline for release.

But surely further down the line after release this could be looked at, when staff are more "available"?

I'll skip over the "core design of the game" aspect for now, as we both know that offline was a principle tenet of the Kickstarter funding and was meant to be part of the core design of the game we all funded... the fact you chose to ignore it in favour of the precious 'multiplayer' is something I will not soon forgive or forget.

We have always said the way to play the game is online - indeed it says so in the quote of me being circulated. The choice was develop the game in the way we wanted, or not. Trying to make it offline would have made both experiences worse than we were willing to tolerate. We had to make the decision and have done so. I would say that an offline rewrite of the game is unlikely for the future.

Michael