Going out in to the black.

[tanner1ie]

Pilot, I didn't understand you a bit, is this a joke or is there official data? Will the game live on the PS5 console ?

It's really just rather in jest wishful thinking, hoping that the Devs "restart" console development sooner rather than later and let us play the game in full on our systems of choice again!

But no, as it is, you can currently only play the full "live" mode of the game along with Odyssey and any future content on a high end PC!

Even people with lower powered PCs are "stuck" playing "legacy" mode in codebase 3.8, though I really wish the Devs would optimise the game and as said release a native "next gen" version of game on PS5 and Xbox Series X, while adding everything that they can to "last gen"!...

As it is, the game is basically dead and in limbo outside of PC 4.0, which is a real shame! .

The game will continue to "live" in "legacy" mode on consoles, but it'll never be truly "alive" again unless we get the complete actual "live" mode! .

 

[VVI_RU52]

It's really just rather in jest wishful thinking, hoping that the Devs "restart" console development sooner rather than later and let us play the game in full on our systems of choice again!

But no, as it is, you can currently only play the full "live" mode of the game along with Odyssey and any future content on a high end PC!

Even people with lower powered PCs are "stuck" playing "legacy" mode in codebase 3.8, though I really wish the Devs would optimise the game and as said release a native "next gen" version of game on PS5 and Xbox Series X, while adding everything that they can to "last gen"!...

As it is, the game is basically dead and in limbo outside of PC 4.0, which is a real shame! .

The game will continue to "live" in "legacy" mode on consoles, but it'll never be truly "alive" again unless we get the complete actual "live" mode! .

I don't understand why it was impossible, for example, to disable some of the functions that they can't do on consoles (wander around stations with their feet, etc.), but leave politics, the market, influence on the whole galaxy. What's the difficulty?!?!?
All events mostly take place on ships and in space, as well as political things that don't need cool computers.
Too bad, too bad...

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Will the game live on the PS5 console ?

No. This game is effectively dead on console.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don't understand why it was impossible, for example, to disable some of the functions that they can't do on consoles (wander around stations with their feet, etc.), but leave politics, the market, influence on the whole galaxy. What's the difficulty?!?!?

Something not many people understand about console development is that you can't just "do" what you want on consoles. You have to develop by the console manufacturers guidelines.

So what happens many times is that a game will want to go in a different direction, and what it takes to go in that direction doesn't abide by the restrictions that consoles have, so they really have no choice but to leave it there.

From what I'm told, that's been getting worse and worse as time goes by, which is why you see many games on console that aren't on PC and many on PC that aren't on console more and more each day.

It's just too much sometimes to have to program the same game in two completely different ways.

 

[tanner1ie]

Something not many people understand about console development is that you can't just "do" what you want on consoles. You have to develop by the console manufacturers guidelines.

So what happens many times is that a game will want to go in a different direction, and what it takes to go in that direction doesn't abide by the restrictions that consoles have, so they really have no choice but to leave it there.

From what I'm told, that's been getting worse and worse as time goes by, which is why you see many games on console that aren't on PC and many on PC that aren't on console more and more each day.

It's just too much sometimes to have to program the same game in two completely different ways.

I'm pretty sure as long as you don't sell a defective, misleading or scamy product, basically if a company makes an at least functional and honest game or piece of dlc, there's no real restriction on what they can make and sell on consoles...

For example I can only remember a literally handful of games being removed from sale on PlayStation and usually only temporarily until they were fixed!

.

For example, aside from a few straight out scams that were banished from existence, I can only think of two big games being temporarily removed from the PS store...

The initial console release of Kerbal Space Programme was a completely broken mess that was instantly blocked by Sony Europe's quality department, yet it was somehow released in the U.S., to a torrent of complaints and was pretty quickly pulled from that store...

The port was so bad that the original Devs and publishers took the game away from the porting developers, Flying Tiger games.

However after giving the job to a new more competent developer, the game relaunched over a year later as the Enhanced Edition and worked pretty flawlessly and garnered generally rave reviews...

The other example was Cyberpunk 2077, which was pulled from sale not long after launch on PlayStation, and didn't go back on sale until a patch or three had improved the game, while even when it went back on sale, it carried a warning to only buy the game for PS4 Pro and PS5, not for the base PS4, for another patch or three - however once that warning was gone, I finally bought the game and play it on both a base PS4 and a Pro and it runs pretty perfectly (it's not without gameplay bugs, such as some pretty nasty in game phone glitches, but they happen in all versions of the game and are not Playstation specific! )

All in, things have to be pretty bad to be blocked or banned and they usually work with Devs to fix their problems (if they'll let them!) .

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I'm pretty sure as long as you don't sell a defective, misleading or scamy product, basically if a company makes an at least functional and honest game or piece of dlc, there's no real restriction on what they can make and sell on consoles...

And you would be wrong.

Sony's Developer Portal | Developer World

Welcome to Sony's official portal for developers. Fill the world with emotion by creating new solutions with Sony's products. Get inspired and collaborate with other developers.

developer.sony.com

You literally have to do it THEIR WAY. Once you reach a point you want to go another direction, that's it. It's over.

It works very much the same way that the mods do for this game; they can't just do "anything they want". They have to abide by Frontier's rules.

 

[tanner1ie]

And you would be wrong.

Sony's Developer Portal | Developer World

Welcome to Sony's official portal for developers. Fill the world with emotion by creating new solutions with Sony's products. Get inspired and collaborate with other developers.

developer.sony.com

You literally have to do it THEIR WAY. Once you reach a point you want to go another direction, that's it. It's over.

It works very much the same way that the mods do for this game; they can't just do "anything they want". They have to abide by Frontier's rules.

I'm sure if the Devs decided tomorrow that the wanted to release SOME new content on consoles and in "legacy" mode, if they were clear and honest about what the expansion contained and priced it appropriately, Sony wouldn't have any objections to it coming out!

Say for example, if the Devs are certain that the full Odyssey expansion won't run on consoles, but about half of it will, if they named, marketed and described it as such, while they sold it at half the price of the full expansion, that would be perfectly fine...

Call it Road to Odyssey or The Iliad etc and if and hopefully when the full Odyssey expansion comes out on consoles, offer an Odyssey upgrade again at an appropriate price, alongside a purchaseable full Odyssey expansion, Sony would have no reason to object to it.

They'd just be happy to get their share of the new sales it would generate! .

P.S. I just editted and added to my previous post on the matter! .

 

[DrinkyBird]

Yeah I think you overestimate the reach of the guidelines console manufacturers have in place. They largely ensure your program is interfacing with the operating system properly, and trying to keep a degree of consistency so users aren't confused between application. Stuff like "please use the correct terminology" and "here's how to handle trying to write a save file when there's not enough disk space" and "please add a fade-in to sound coming from a just-connected microphone because there might be a bit of noise". Comprehensive, but largely technical and focused on being a "good citizen" as it were. Something I sometimes wish I had when doing desktop programming... Basically nothing regarding the content nor quality of a title.

Source: have seen guidelines documents from recent consoles.

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

Oh come on!

This was not due to Sony or Microsoft various licensing differences/restrictions of product, it was generally agreed some time last year before the split, to be due to Pegi rating for Horizons and Ody being different.

Horizons is Pegi 7 :
"This game was rated PEGI 7 because it contains violence against humans that is not shown but is implied."

Ody is Pegi 16 :
"This game has received a PEGI 16 because it features sustained depictions of violence. Not suitable for persons under 16 years of age."

Whilst it is OK for the lower Pegi Horizons to shoot and destroy (or 'kill' another player in) a spaceship, it is not OK for the same age rating game to have access to Ody - 'Shooting a player or (NPC) in the head with a large gun'.

Thus they HAD to split ED into the Horizons 3.8, Horizons 4.0 and Ody on PC as Pegi rating is legally enforceable and Sony/Microsoft could not allow the joining of two different pegi ratings into one (the lower one - Pegi 7).

OK the Horizons 4.0 has Ody code, with the FPS/on foot stuff in the game but not running (or switched off), I am sure that is why Sony/Microsoft would not or could not license the 16 DLC as well as the porting difficulties (ultra slow frame rates on consoles and low-end PC's BTW) which would cost more in Devs resources than any income generated.

EDIT - and before you shout at me that I am misguided, we will never know the actual reason they stopped Console progress as that is a business decision solely between FDev and Sony/Microsoft.

 

[tanner1ie]

Oh come on!
They cannot make Ody a free DLC to ED.
This was not due to Sony or Microsoft various licensing differences/restrictions of product, it was generally agreed some time last year before the split, to be due to Pegi rating for Horizons and Ody being different.

Horizons is Pegi 7 :
"This game was rated PEGI 7 because it contains violence against humans that is not shown but is implied."

Ody is Pegi 16 :
"This game has received a PEGI 16 because it features sustained depictions of violence. Not suitable for persons under 16 years of age."

Whilst it is OK for the lower Pegi Horizons to shoot and destroy (or 'kill' another player in) a spaceship, it is not OK for the same age rating game to have access to Ody - 'Shooting a player or (NPC) in the head with a large gun'.

Thus they HAD to split ED into the Horizons 3.8, Horizons 4.0 and Ody on PC as Pegi rating is legally enforceable and Sony/Microsoft could not allow the joining of two different pegi ratings into 1.

OK the Horizons 4.0 has Ody code, with the FPS/on foot stuff in the game but not running (or switched off), I am sure that is why Sony/Microsoft would not or could not license the 16 DLC as well as the porting difficulties (ultra slow frame rates on consoles and low-end PC's BTW) which would cost more in Devs resources than any income generated.

I don't know who's asking for it for free, I and many others just want and expect it to be a paid expansion on at least "next gen" consoles, as it is on PC...

While indeed the dlc/expansion could and likely would have its' own higher age rating on the PS and Xbox stores (not that I think many and certainly not enough people take notice of age ratings, but at least they're there for legal reasons and for the few people who do heed them!)

We just want to play the game in full again, but we're not looking for any special treatment! .

Also I'm sure that Odyssey's frame rate even on "last gen" consoles wasn't ultra low, it was likely just below the overly high FPS target they set and would surely run above that target on "next gen" consoles if they bothered to release the game on them!!

Indeed Odyssey has been shown to run at around 40 FPS on the unsupported Steam Deck (which is plenty for most people) and would be even better if they optimisated it for it and for all consoles but particularly on "next gen" consoles! .

 

[Spaceman-FXL5]

I have edited out the Free request as I don't think anyone is asking or would ask for that.
However, I think there is absolutely no possibility of any future upgrade of Legacy to Live on next gen consoles as the 2 separate galaxies (Live and Legacy) are now separated in all aspects and are totally irreconcilable (impossible to merge).

 

[tanner1ie]

I have edited out the Free request.
However, I think there is absolutely no possibility of any future upgrade of Legacy to Live on next gen consoles as the 2 separate galaxies (Live and Legacy) are now totally separated in all aspects and are totally irreconcilable (impossible to merge).

MAYBE, though I never say never or that something is impossible - something just isn't happening until it is! .

Anyway, even IF we got all the same content as "live" mode, but had our own separate BGS, that wouldn't be a disaster it might be more fun, particularly if we had our own specific Galnet, story and CGs! .

 

[whothe]

You mean Shield Cell Banks.

I don't use them. Even if I did there wouldn't be any practical reason to engineer them. And even if I did I could use Lori Jameson and get them to G3, so not worth a 24,000 LY trip one way to get one more level of engineering on a module seldom if ever used.

Again, there is NO REASON to go to Colonia at all for any ship engineering.

There is one really good reason to go to Colonia and do all the extra engineers there... It's to add extra pinned BP's to your remote engineering list. I find this extremely convenient, as then I only have to travel for secondary effects, and any G1 engineer will do for those.

And opening all 5 colonia engineers to max took 3 hours total iirc.

 

[VVI_RU52]

Oh come on!

This was not due to Sony or Microsoft various licensing differences/restrictions of product, it was generally agreed some time last year before the split, to be due to Pegi rating for Horizons and Ody being different.

Horizons is Pegi 7 :
"This game was rated PEGI 7 because it contains violence against humans that is not shown but is implied."

Ody is Pegi 16 :
"This game has received a PEGI 16 because it features sustained depictions of violence. Not suitable for persons under 16 years of age."

Whilst it is OK for the lower Pegi Horizons to shoot and destroy (or 'kill' another player in) a spaceship, it is not OK for the same age rating game to have access to Ody - 'Shooting a player or (NPC) in the head with a large gun'.

Thus they HAD to split ED into the Horizons 3.8, Horizons 4.0 and Ody on PC as Pegi rating is legally enforceable and Sony/Microsoft could not allow the joining of two different pegi ratings into one (the lower one - Pegi 7).

OK the Horizons 4.0 has Ody code, with the FPS/on foot stuff in the game but not running (or switched off), I am sure that is why Sony/Microsoft would not or could not license the 16 DLC as well as the porting difficulties (ultra slow frame rates on consoles and low-end PC's BTW) which would cost more in Devs resources than any income generated.

EDIT - and before you shout at me that I am misguided, we will never know the actual reason they stopped Console progress as that is a business decision solely between FDev and Sony/Microsoft.

I believe that any problems related to rights and restrictions can be solved with money. Apparently, frontier considered it not profitable to maintain a staff of programmers to maintain the game on consoles.
And if the difference between 3.8 and 4.0 is so big, then I think they could conduct a survey or marketing research, or make a pre-order to see how many people and how much money they can raise on consoles.
I repeat, if you have money and desire, then you can solve any problem and you can negotiate with anyone.
It can be seen that there is no money and you and I were considered not solvent
I can't buy myself a computer, but for the sake of ED, I can buy a new PS5 console and re-purchase the game ED 4.0. It's not just about money, but also about lifestyle. Few people use a computer in the family, but the console, children play their games during the day, in the evening, I played ED.
And I think many people have a similar situation, but Frontier did not calculate this situation.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Few people use a computer in the family

Then you are in the extreme minority.

Kids use computers for school in this and every house I'm aware of. Have for years. I know a few people that have a console, and they're cool to mess with, but every single kid I know of has a laptop, Chromebook or something.

 

[VVI_RU52]

 

[VVI_RU52]

Then you are in the extreme minority.

Kids use computers for school in this and every house I'm aware of. Have for years. I know a few people that have a console, and they're cool to mess with, but every single kid I know of has a laptop, Chromebook or something.

I will not argue about the minority. However, I believe that those who like to play ED in the absolute majority do it on large monitors or televisions. And playing ED on a laptop or Chromebook is a dubious pleasure, and as you correctly noticed, these devices are for schoolchildren or students, but not for games.
I had ED on a 46-inch TV, audio system sound around, it was great. I plan to buy an 86-inch TV, imagine what pleasure you can get on such a screen, it does not compare with the possibility of a computer.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I will not argue about the minority. However, I believe that those who like to play ED in the absolute majority do it on large monitors or televisions.

That wasn't the point. At all. It had nothing to do with "how people play ED". It had to do with the argument he made that nobody uses computers.

 

[tanner1ie]

That wasn't the point. At all. It had nothing to do with "how people play ED". It had to do with the argument he made that nobody uses computers.

Well as I've stated before, I and many others really don't want to play any games* on PC, I want to play them on the family of systems of my choice, Playstation!

But even IF I wanted to play ED on PC, a PC powerful enough to play Odyssey and Elite 4.0 costs AT LEAST twice the price of a PS5 (which surely has to get a price cut soon, it should really be down to €400 after more than two years on sale!)

For many reasons, ED on PC doesn't interest me/us, but 99% of us would rebuy it in a heartbeat on "next gen" consoles (hopefully with all our progress carrying over!), if Frontier bothered to make it!! .

(And we also would buy Odyssey "lite" on "last gen" consoles, if it had a reasonable amount of features and price, IF they could make that work too! .)

(*Short of maybe Age of Empires, though it'd be nice to see AoE iii and iV ported to to Playstation and Xbox, as AoE ii was back in the day, while Stellaris and Tropico etc run and play great on consoles and Company of Heroes 3 is coming to consoles too!! .)

 

[karamu]

Was going to comment that a very good reason to go to Colonia and open the engineers there is to get more blueprints pinned but I see someone else already made that point.