Who knows... Right now I'm just trying to locate a god-damn Threat 4 NHSS with an Orthrus.
Sort of. We've suspected for a while that kills get counted (for purposes of contributing towards the war) for each individual cmdr present at the time. It would have been confirmed (or debunked) but the 14.02 patch dropped in the middle of the testing and the increased difficulty of unpopulated control systems made it impossible to count accurately.
Is it really that much of a surprise i sided with the the aliens if this is the best humanity has to offer?
Well there is only so much you can do to an Orthrus, take a tissue sample or kill it or both, and it was only recently that tissue sampling was added as a task to do in Alerts. With no other way to interact with them what is it you think people are missing that they haven't tried already?
Tissue sampling has been demonstrated to be effective in moving the progress bar, thanks to recent experiments. If killing them has now been made more meaningful to progress compared to the minimal effect it's had on progress so far then all well and good, that's just changing the value of the task in terms of moving the progress bar. But to suggest it's something new that people haven't done before when they have been killing Orthruses for months already, and taking samples ever since they was added, is not true.
I can understand that some people might look at the Invasion target thread in here and assume that's all anyone is doing. But it's a false assumption.
@Phill P
Not guilty m'lud...
These humans were complaining that it wasn't easy enough so i told them to look elsewhere for their candy... Everyone likes candy.
Assumptions are bad, don't you think? Expecting a game set in a dystopian universe to do you any favours...
Hmm....
Maybe there is a better way, maybe i'm just messing with you humans.
Choices, choices...
Not guilty m'lud...
These humans were complaining that it wasn't easy enough so i told them to look elsewhere for their candy... Everyone likes candy.
Assumptions are bad, don't you think? Expecting a game set in a dystopian universe to do you any favours...
Hmm....
Maybe there is a better way, maybe i'm just messing with you humans.
Choices, choices...
1) Not much. It's just background noise to me. I did have a bit of fun at the start, setting up a ship to fight Scouts, and the planet-side fights were pretty cool despite being very buggy. But I lost interest pretty fast.
2) No. It's actually made me play less. I've moved out into the black and I'm exploring instead of messing with the war.
3) That question is meaningless. It's all in the Dev's hands to go where they want it to go. Our input doesn't matter (which is fine, actually -- it's a game).
4) It's a little bit interesting. Thargoids are rather too opaque to be truly interesting. They might as well be rocks.
Sorry I don't enjoy it more. I still like the game in total.
Apart from hyperbole for dramatic reasons, people are way too sensitive and too easily enraged and "insulted". If You feel insulted or get otherwise over-emotional over how the narrative in the game is conducted, you should probably step back and take a break, and maybe go outside and meet with real people for a while.
1. Mostly yes.
2. Some of it. The AXCZ's are decent fun and give good payouts. Missions give decent material rewards. Some of the recent messaging around Alert systems fail to take into account the tedious nature of waiting for events with a low spawn rate. Would like to do more of the orthrus hunting but am not prepared to waste hours of game time looking for them. A higher spawn rate would change that.
More clarity about the relative impact of different activities would help, preferably without having to repeat earlier testing to find out how balance changes have changed that.
3. Currently pessimistic.This could change with improvements to current ships or new ones designed to make best use of the improved weapons and ability to outfit more of them, additional utility slots, improvements to speed and agility etc. New ships might help to re-engage players who are getting bored with 15 weeks of pretty similar gameplay.
4. Needs some positivity. Clearly we are losing. It seems like we are waiting for something and during that wait more systems are being lost. it also feels like more and more players are getting bored with doing the same thing over and over for a prolonged period. Switch up the speed. If we're waiting for someting to drop with the next update start dropping some teasers to generate some more enthusiasm.
Perhaps that is the way, but regardless of how emotional people get over a small insignificant update, there will always be strong objections or criticisms to anything the narrative in the game was conducted. Some of us are no-lifer gamers, some of us live rent-free, some of us still have a life, but criticisms are criticisms, they reflect demands from the community and not just from you. Although you can carry that opinion of yours and persuade others of the same, there's no baseline reason to convince those otherwise, who stay and try to make a point within the community, myself included, that this update sucks (apart from the D-2 story arc).
People are too sensitive, but unfortunately this is the evolving society that we're living in reality. Look at how the fan base changed over the 9 years Elite Dangerous was a game. They come and go.
[EDIT]: Objectively... you can come into this forum with the perspective of, "I enjoy this update, I love the story arc of D-2, I find that fascinating to explore and decrypt the messages behind it. And Aegis' implementation to start incentives of hunting the Orthrus, by increasing bond payouts of it, is an interesting decision, and may bring more players to look into Alert systems", which I am certainly not critical towards that view. Actually, in my opinion, it is refreshingly inviting to see someone coming in and discussing why they enjoy it.
Of course you'll be met with players that criticize the game and offend them with why they didn't like the game. But, this is not how this conversation started. I could say the same thing earlier, which is I understand that you enjoy this game, again, there is nothing wrong about your opinions of a game. But, by recommending those who are too emotional towards a subjectively botched update, backed up by data and evidence from an archival database, to take a break is something you are willing to do because the types of strong criticisms and feedback, in your perspective, will hurt this fragile and divided community.
To me, in my honest opinion, that is your personal sensitivity to recommend others to take a break. It does not add anything of constructional value to the topic of this forums, which is the Thoughts and Feelings of the Thargoid War. I, and many players involved in this war, some of which does not use just the forums, have outspoken about how frustrated they are with this update.
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I have thought a while if I should respond or not. I will just say this:
You are wrong with your assessment of my position. People can criticize the game on a factual level until the cows come home, frankly I don't care. But the way certain players talk, the language and hyperbole they use, shows very clearly that they are too emotional about a computer game, and many also show a latent hostility towards everything that is being done within the narrative, by the developers and the game as a whole.
I am just a stranger on the internet, just as you are or any other person posting here is; so my words and opinion carry no weight whatsoever. But in the real world, getting frustrated to the point that you get angry or feel insulted over the direction a video game is taking is clearly not a healthy activity, which I think should be pointed out now and then, and as a responsible adult I feel compelled to do so from time to time. Even if I am just a stranger on the internet.
If you want to be heard and achieve actual change, leave your emotions out the door. Be factual. Also, taking a break and going outside now and then is generally just a good idea.
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Ah, yes, but I have been punctual about my facts presented here about the update. Videos from Youtube Content Creators, both Galnet News Digest and Buur Pit has said they had none to little Orthrus spawn in the time that they investigated. I have evidence from DCoH Overwatch's database to provide information that Alert system isn't a generally accepted activity at the time of the update release. It seems like the player activity has shifted into focusing Alert systems, and therefore a global pushback is incentivized by the community from the Galnet News article.
Yes, we are two strangers talking in a forums feed about a problem that the community faces. I am providing an outlook to what the group, who is frustrated by the lack of support or acknowledgement released from Frontier or the narrative, is saying. "Insulting" is a word that comes up and is going to be used regardless of how you or I think will think. However, don't be obliged to recommend people taking a break from time to time, that's not your responsible job on the internet to tell me to take a break. How do you know I am emotional over a game? Through what I said? Are you a mind reader or something? Am I too passionate talking about the elephants in the room? Either the developers are ignorant or the players are ignorant. Nothing is confirmed as of yet, which is the reason behind my first post.
I also have not attacked you or anyone who's come to defend why they think the game is great and how the recent update is great, or how they may not understand how a game can be insulting. I have simply told you and those who disagree with me, my and our perspective. Whether or not you think someone has crossed that line, you are not obligated to tell me I should take a break. Maybe it is unhealthy for me to continue like this, but that is your opinion. As a responsible adult, you have equal say in this as I do to you.
Have I both disagreed with you then proceeded insulted you? Perhaps by calling the game insulting, I've attacked you. But how does that correlate? I'm providing feedback about a game I am involved in, I said it sucked, that's my opinion. You decided to open your opinions about the people who raised concerns that called it bad? What's the logic behind it? Are we too toxic for this forums feed for you?
I am providing a legitimate gameplay problem to be frustrated over. I am not mad over you, or those who think otherwise. However, I will defend my points, regardless of what the community thinks or says in response to what I have to say. I said the game is bad and you suggested I should take a break if its bad, that isn't helpful or constructive feedback to the developers of this game.
That's fine, I'd rather you tell me your assessment of your position to me than for me to mindread and get it wrong like I did.
Frontier is inconsistent. Factually game design is hard to achieve, and therefore it is modeled behind a player-input feedback basis. We can both agree to that yes?
By voicing a statement, calling the update, patch, or balance in an unfavorable tone, does not immediately mean hostility. Some people can say "eh, what the f*** is this sh****** D-2 storyline" or "the storyline of D-2, I thought, was interesting and cool." Its still valid feedback, facts provided of course.
I would say it isn't polite or respectful feedback but it is feedback to a standard. At least the post initially wasn't "hey, what the f*** FDev, this update is so bad that I'm going to threaten you to do your job right, this and that, throwing expletives, calling them something degenerate like what happened to Garten of Banban."
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Seems to me orthruses are supposed to be killed periodically between doing other things like hauling supplies or Escape pods. You can kill them with four enhanced missile racks, so what I'm probably going to do is just slap them on my trade python and whenever I drop into the system, check for them and kill them.
Seems to me that's the only practical way to do it. If you have to swap shifts whenever you see one, you'll end up wasting so much time swapping back and forth it won't be worth it.
Honestly though, they are common enough that if you had a wing of four people, I imagine you would be able to find them basically constantly. More than that, because as far as we know the kill value gets multiplied by all the present players, you would have a fairly massive rate of progress. Unfortunately, most of the time spent would be flying around in supercruise, but what are you going to do.
Edit: the more I think about it, the more I think winging up is the key. From what I recall, it takes about 8 kills to get one pip of progress, so with a full wing, you were looking at needing only about 100 kills in order to win a system. With four players, you should easily be able to get one every 5 minutes, which means it would only take you about 8 and 1/2 hours to win the system.
Seems to me that's the only practical way to do it. If you have to swap shifts whenever you see one, you'll end up wasting so much time swapping back and forth it won't be worth it.
Honestly though, they are common enough that if you had a wing of four people, I imagine you would be able to find them basically constantly. More than that, because as far as we know the kill value gets multiplied by all the present players, you would have a fairly massive rate of progress. Unfortunately, most of the time spent would be flying around in supercruise, but what are you going to do.
Edit: the more I think about it, the more I think winging up is the key. From what I recall, it takes about 8 kills to get one pip of progress, so with a full wing, you were looking at needing only about 100 kills in order to win a system. With four players, you should easily be able to get one every 5 minutes, which means it would only take you about 8 and 1/2 hours to win the system.
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you getting that riled up that much over what is in essence a simple "chill out, bitty" post is a pretty good sign of taking it all way too seriously. I don't know where this notion if me getting offended by crticism comes from, quite the contrary. I'm saying (and I seem to be right) that people are too easily offended and geting needlessly emotional, especially in the context of a bloody video game.
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(This answer has nothing to do with IM2D and his argument, I'm just taking a few steps back to look at the bigger picture and nodding in total agreement with your above observation.)
Games have become an alternative outlet similar to watching sports on TV for some people. If I think about it this way, I can kind of understand the equation without losing hope in humanity. However, it is always good to remember that "fan" comes from the word "fanatic" and this is not a positive connotation. Like in sports, if a fan starts hitting other people because of it, it's a bad development from what could otherwise be a very good and constructive hobby.
Gaming fanaticism has gotten so bad over the past decade that I've put all my game design ideas on hold. Until initiatives like https://fairplayalliance.org/ get a proper foothold in most gaming communities, I have no intention of continuing with games other than as a player. I do understand that that day may not come right away, but I have time.
"No I'm the adult" posts tend to rile people up. It's the nature of the internet / forum , the written word can be misconstrued by the way it's read.
Elite is one of those games where the players have a lot invested for a long time in the game, so yes people are rightly upset ( in my own opinion) when things aren't right .
The narrative is set in stone by fdev . They don't run multiple scenarios if the players don't follow the yellow brick road it takes longer vice versa if they do it's shorter. Take this scenario players were pushed by credits to other targets because they hit the formula early . Now it's time for the orthus destruction so again being pushed by credits?
This is all of course just my opinion and supposition .
Elite is one of those games where the players have a lot invested for a long time in the game, so yes people are rightly upset ( in my own opinion) when things aren't right .
The narrative is set in stone by fdev . They don't run multiple scenarios if the players don't follow the yellow brick road it takes longer vice versa if they do it's shorter. Take this scenario players were pushed by credits to other targets because they hit the formula early . Now it's time for the orthus destruction so again being pushed by credits?
This is all of course just my opinion and supposition .
I just want to say I understand this and agree. Although some deny it, power is always loaned and this loan can be revoked. People grant another person (or company) power and influence because they believe it is in their best interest to listen to him, be involved with him and, in some cases, follow his leadership. If one understands this, one will also understand how it can be revoked simply by stopping listening to that person/company.
People trust someone/company to act in a capacity that benefits them and cares about their interests. And for that they give this someone power. Power always comes from the societal organization and one's ability to fulfill a need within that structure. Whatever philosophy (no matter how wacky, be it kitchen psychology or completely illogical) someone chooses to follow is irrelevant. If there are 10,000 players who share the same wacky vision, there is a serious concentration of power over there and those people are looking for someone to look out for their interests.
I think we can already see the impact of this revocation in the Horizons/Odyssey split and now also in the PC/Console split. While the intentions of these moves are only good, things may not go exactly as Frontier has planned, as many people feel that their interests have been neglected. I predict that if these players are ever denied an in-game bunker (be it legacy or PGs) to express this opinion, they will be more likely to change the game entirely rather than commit to playing a game mode/fork that doesn't work for them. So, for example, while I don't play Legacy myself, I can totally see how keeping it running and well oiled is a strategically smart move for ED in the long run.
Since you mentioned me, in fairness, I'm more of a theoretical BGS researcher - I'm investigating the war because pulling apart black box systems is something I find fun; if any of it happens to be strategically useful for other people that's nice but not why I'm doing it.
Mainly at the moment I'm just confused as to why Frontier is giving the impression that the Thargoids are doing "too well" - both in-game with the Aegis announcement, and out-of-game with the recent "slow down their expansion significantly" rebalances. Yes, they're winning, but they'll continue to do so even with the recent rebalance (if its effects were intentional) in a purely technical sense, and it'll be a very long time before they threaten anything really significant.
Here's where the action has been happening in recent weeks - the trend is basically flat, because the way the Thargoids expand seems to strongly prioritise "in-fill" of their existing sphere of influence. Yes, systems are being lost within those ~30 LY spheres, but from a wider perspective the front line basically hasn't moved since the start of the year.
In my opinion, perhaps it is the fact that Frontier has outlined how badly humanity is doing, so in this patch, their focus was to prepare the content for Update 15. Ian, I know that you know about these graphs, but for the people who don't know, here's all of the systems tracked by the DCoH Overwatch.
See how the number of alerts from the last week to this week has halved? I suspect that Frontier is doing this to slow down the progress of Thargoid's advancements. I think speculations on the D-2 story arc have shifted that she's able to communicate to the Thargoids, thus being able to manipulate commands from them at anytime. Update 15 may be a power play expansion, but its a war between all power players to 8 Thargoid capitols.
Because of its shift of halving the alerts, we might see a more moderate expansion effort made by the Thargoids. From 2022-12-08 to 2023-02-02, see how the rate of expansion has done up and down slightly? I think its indicating how Power Play will expand then fortify, expand then fortify.
This table shows the overall commitment gathered by a portion of data through EDDN, INARA and your in-game journals if you have logged into the DCoH Webapp. You can see the numbers going down, while some dips can be explained by concurring CG's, but the general trend has been going down. I think Frontier Dev has been keeping touch with the webapp as well just to see how well the players are doing, and I think that the dwindle of overall efforts has made them push out a small Thargoid rebalance.
With your data, it seems that pre-update 14.02.1, the Thargoids are only interested in keeping a sphere around their Maelstroms since the beginning of this year and looking at the historical maps in DCoH too, it feels like their expanding into the systems adjacent to where Thargoids have control or partial domination in. Similar to what I think that of Thargoid BGS or Thargoid Power Play.
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I hope that the final bar in the chart (pic below) is for the week that started March 16th rather than the week that ended that day...